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ACA Pricing/Markup

  • Thread starter Thread starter PierreBear
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PierreBear

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Hi All,

I'm not a diamond connoisseur like some of the other experts here but understand that ACA stones are ideal cut and come at a premium. I was wondering if anyone can help me generally quantify the extra amount for the comfort and security that you are getting an superior cut stone for learning purposes as I'm not quite in the market yet? Apples to apples taking your best GIA cert stone compared to an ACA stone, what would be the extra cost be and does that change at between at specific CT sizes?

To ask it concretely, if I were to ask one vendor to provide their best cut 3 CT modern round brilliant with the same color and clarity versus Whiteflash providing an ACA with the same color and clarity, what would that price difference be? Appreciate the guidance just sorting through whether I would ever pay the premium for the cut but perhaps it depends on the price difference. Can one really tell the difference at eye level without using tools, etc?

Thanks in advance and appreciate any guidance!
 
Built into that premium is the upgrade policy, which is quite liberal compared to other vendors that pull from virtual stones. Also, the stones included in the upgrade policy were vetted by someone, pics taken etc.
 
PierreBear said:
Hi All,

I'm not a diamond connoisseur like some of the other experts here but understand that ACA stones are ideal cut and come at a premium. I was wondering if anyone can help me generally quantify the extra amount for the comfort and security that you are getting an superior cut stone for learning purposes as I'm not quite in the market yet? Apples to apples taking your best GIA cert stone compared to an ACA stone, what would be the extra cost be and does that change at between at specific CT sizes?

To ask it concretely, if I were to ask one vendor to provide their best cut 3 CT modern round brilliant with the same color and clarity versus Whiteflash providing an ACA with the same color and clarity, what would that price difference be? Appreciate the guidance just sorting through whether I would ever pay the premium for the cut but perhaps it depends on the price difference. Can one really tell the difference at eye level without using tools, etc?

Thanks in advance and appreciate any guidance!
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When I was looking for my stone I went to several B&M stores and looked at at least 100 diamonds ~ most were GIA XXX. I liked 2 GIA XXX stones enough to consider purchasing. The jeweler and I couldn't agree on a price (he was overpriced by 3-5k in my opinion and I did a lot of research).
Then I decided I was going to purchase online ~ I ended up getting a Brian Gavin Signature stone which to my eyes was better than any of the stones I had seen in store....BY FAR! As a matter of fact, I was SO impressed I ended up upgrading the stone about a month after having it because I was willing to spend more (I saw the quality and it was worth it to me).
Some people will say they saw no difference. To ME my stone is worth every penny and I actually spent less than I would have if I bought from a B&M (I looked at the comps).
 
I have a three stone ring whose side stones were mall .42 earrings at one point. One chipped and I needed to replace. For the price the insurance gave me for one stone I was able to get TWO ACA side stones to replace. Is there a premium? Probably, but compared to mall prices for junk they are a bargain.
 
I agree with @oldminer. Whiteflash ACAs are superideal cut diamonds as are HPD Crafted by Infinity and Brian Gavin Signature/Black. All are fully vetted, have upgrade policies, and in the case of CBI also have a 80%lifetime buyback policy. Production of CBI diamonds is tightly controlled from the selection of the starting crystal to the finished diamond, and this is all done in-house.
For me, I don't mind paying the price to own 6.06 carats of F colored CBI diamonds.
Others have different priorities and may choose to purchase from the virtual inventory but wouldn't be caught dead buying a tee-shirt from Costco like I do.
 
It really depends on the carat weight you’re looking at. As the carat weight goes up, the price difference gets impossibly huge to me. I can easily buy a 0.5-0.7ct Super Ideal, but when I want to trade up to a 2ct, the Super Ideal prices are way beyond me especially when comparing the price to an ideal cut GIA 2ct with very decent performance. It would make sense to me to want the GIA instead since an upgrade would cost far less and I could therefore get a bigger upgrade.

Sure, it is more sparkly than a GIA triple ex (assuming that’s an ideal cut range stone). But is it $7,000 or $10,000 more sparkly? Everyone has to make a personal decision as to whether they have the cash to splash out on Super Ideal stones for a-not-huge increase in performance/sparkliness.

Here’s a video that shows the comparison between what you’re asking and you can see the sparkliness for yourself:

I personally have a Super Ideal Stone and the difference between it and my other diamonds is not huge to me. I wish I had got a bigger GIA stone for the same amount of money and I regret buying into the Super Ideal upgrade policy (I didn’t plan to upgrade, but I ended up wanting to do so).
 
cflutist said:
I agree with @oldminer. Whiteflash ACAs are superideal cut diamonds as are HPD Crafted by Infinity and Brian Gavin Signature/Black. All are fully vetted, have upgrade policies, and in the case of CBI also have a 80%lifetime buyback policy. Production of CBI diamonds is tightly controlled from the selection of the starting crystal to the finished diamond, and this is all done in-house.
For me, I don't mind paying the price to own 6.06 carats of F colored CBI diamonds.
Others have different priorities and may choose to purchase from the virtual inventory but wouldn't be caught dead buying a tee-shirt from Costco like I do.
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I like Costco t-shirts! And exceptional diamonds.:wink2::wink2:
 
I really tried to get an ACA when I upgraded but I would've had to drop in color and/or clarity to get the size I wanted at the price I wanted....similar specs at WF to what I ended up with would've been 25-35% more expensive which you could imagine turns out to be a LOT of $$$ when you're talking 3+ carats! I looked at GOG's Ascendancy super ideal diamonds and definitely found myself to be color sensitive and didn't love the I color which I would've had to drop down to.
 
I wouldn't say there is any 'premium'.

You get more, so you pay more.
A premium would be paying more for the same thing.

When I see what cut Tiffany, Cartier, etc. sell and THEIR prices I see a Whiteflash ACA as a huge bargain.
 
jadesilver said:
It really depends on the carat weight you’re looking at. As the carat weight goes up, the price difference gets impossibly huge to me. I can easily buy a 0.5-0.7ct Super Ideal, but when I want to trade up to a 2ct, the Super Ideal prices are way beyond me especially when comparing the price to an ideal cut GIA 2ct with very decent performance. It would make sense to me to want the GIA instead since an upgrade would cost far less and I could therefore get a bigger upgrade.

Sure, it is more sparkly than a GIA triple ex (assuming that’s an ideal cut range stone). But is it $7,000 or $10,000 more sparkly? Everyone has to make a personal decision as to whether they have the cash to splash out on Super Ideal stones for a-not-huge increase in performance/sparkliness.

Here’s a video that shows the comparison between what you’re asking and you can see the sparkliness for yourself:

I personally have a Super Ideal Stone and the difference between it and my other diamonds is not huge to me. I wish I had got a bigger GIA stone for the same amount of money and I regret buying into the Super Ideal upgrade policy (I didn’t plan to upgrade, but I ended up wanting to do so).
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I really appreciate your honesty! I have been mulling over this question for a couple of weeks now. You are the only person who expresses regret at going with super ideal. I’ve done the math and I’d be looking at spending exactly what you said and stay within the same specs except for cut. I’ve yet to compare to ideal stones, so I can see fit myself and let my eyes decide. Right now, my wallet is not leaning towards it. Lol.
 
The video is nice but doesn't show ideal GIA with the tight parameters that are quoted here, So you do not know if the difference seen in the video is due to difference in angles or difference in cut precision.

The difference from a very well cut ideal cut GIA diamond and a superideal is probably not going to be portrayed effectively in videos, but a subtle finding you see with your own eyes.
 
I must admit I'm super curious as to what the fuss is about ACA diamonds.

I went the budget option and got myself a diamond bangle from whiteflash to see if their ACA melee is really any better than the normal melee I'm used to.

Haha I'm worried I'm building it up too much in my head and it'll just be sparkly like they all tend to be!
 
The scintillation, fire and brilliance are certainly worlds above with the ACA diamond than the "very good? graded GIA, EGL, non-eye clean diamonds I see being sold but the mall jeweller.

However, if you shop around for a GIA excellent or the equivalent of the WF expert selection, you'll save quite a bit of money over ACA - I think the premium was 10-15% but haven't quite worked it out for a while and you're splitting hairs really. It's still going to look pretty! Still, some people want to know that for the extra premium, they got the 'best of the best'
 
Whiteflash’s Expert Selection can be a really great way to get what an average jeweller would consider a H&A stone (except far better) for a cheaper price. If you want GIA graded, then their Premium selection is good value buying too.

Best part is that these two collections are also eligible for their upgrade policy as well!
 
For a 16oz ribeye, you can cook for yourself, go to a neighbourhood steakhouse offering USDA choice grade beef, or a decent one offering USDA prime.
Even among fancy steakhouses offering USDA prime, the prices can vary alot upto 15%, Not all USDA prime beef is equal, and not all steakhouses offer the same level customer service, wine list and atmosphere. Just like not all AGS id/GIA ex with ideal proportions are created equal. Each vendor offer different services at different prices to their target customers.

WF offers amazingly cut diamonds, but also great customer service, upgrade policy and quality assurance. When you consider these all, WF actually offers a great value in comparison with other super ideal vendors. That's why they are popular here at PS. But they are not for everyone.
You don't have to go with WF to have a great diamond, just like you don't need to go to a fancy steakhouse to have a great steak.

Look at the full service and package that WF delivers and decide if the vendor is right for you. It is not just about diamond. If you don't care about their service and top-notch cut quality, WF is not for you.
 
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flyingpig said:
For a 16oz ribeye, you can cook for yourself, go to a neighbourhood steakhouse offering USDA choice grade beef, or a decent one offering USDA prime.
Even among fancy steakhouses offering USDA prime, the prices can vary alot upto 15%, Not all USDA prime beef is equal, and not all steakhouses offer the same level customer service, wine list and atmosphere. Just like not all AGS id/GIA ex with ideal proportions are created equal. Each vendor offer different services at different prices to their target customers.

WF offers amazingly cut diamonds, but also great customer service, upgrade policy and quality assurance. When you consider these all, WF actually offers a great value in comparison with other super ideal vendors. That's why they are popular here at PS. But they are not for everyone.
You don't have to go with WF to have a great diamond, just like you don't need to go to a fancy steakhouse to have a great steak.

Look at the full service and package that WF delivers and decide if the vendor is right for you. It is not just about diamond. If you don't care about their service and top-notch cut quality, WF is not for you.
Click to expand...


But i thought the OP asked about the markup of the ACA diamond cut. The actual diamond cut. Not the package. So all service and trade up being equal— does the ACA diamond outshine a similar spec triple excellent GIA at a blank percentage more?
 
To ask it concretely, if I were to ask one vendor to provide their best cut 3 CT modern round brilliant with the same color and clarity versus Whiteflash providing an ACA with the same color and clarity, what would that price difference be?
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nala said:
But i thought the OP asked about the markup of the ACA diamond cut. The actual diamond cut. Not the package. So all service and trade up being equal— does the ACA diamond outshine a similar spec triple excellent GIA at a blank percentage more?
Click to expand...

It is hard to find a GIA ex with ideal proportions from the virtual inventory. You can ask a random vendor to find the best cut 3ct stone, but the chances of the vendor actually finding a well cut diamond that is smiliar to ACA are very low. In addition, it is not necessarily that much cheaper.

You cannot make generalization that WF ACAs are always significantly more expensive.
In some carat/color ranges, the difference is upto 30%. In other cases, as you see as below, the difference is not that much. It must be looked at on a case by case basis. ACA may or may not outshine depending on the cut quality of a similar spec GIA 3X.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3133136
vs
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802915.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3588791
vs
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3685684.htm

In both cases, ACA wins. no brainer for me
 
For me, being in Australia I was able to get more for my money buying an ACA diamond. For what I paid I would have had a much smaller stone with non comparable cut if I had purchased locally. I really struggled to find something local within the cut ranges that were advised to me on this board.
 
Many good points made in this thread. Bottom line is that everyone has to make this decision for themselves regarding super ideal cut stones. They are amazingly beautiful in my opinion and the level of cut quality is evident from the first time you lay eyes on them. Having a beautifully cut diamond is very important to me and therefore worth the price.

I don't necessarily consider the cost a premium as the legwork done with each stone means I bought a fully vetted, no worry, no hassle return diamond that can be traded in for the original purchase price at any time I choose. If you've ever had a diamond that caused you doubt, if you've ever tried to trade up with double the price policies or changed your mind a month into owning a stone, then you can fully appreciate the customer service of great vendors that sell a product that they are confident in backing and taking back if necessary. Coupled with first water cutting, I've never regretted my decision to own one of these fabulous stones!
 
another comparison.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3891965.htm
vs
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2701315
ACA is not that much more expensive, although it is a bit smaller..

However, the following is a case where ACA does not offer a good value IMHO.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3750400
vs
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3897565.htm
ACA is nearly 50% more expensive in comparison with a reaonsably well cut GIA ex..
ACAs in 0.9~1.0x carat range do not offer a good value in general in terms of % difference. . For 3.0c+, it is a completely different story.

Again, it really depends.
 
rockysalamander said:
Platinum. But, if she really wants the metal to be high polish, platinum will be a terrible choice. Does this vendor offer unplated white gold without nickel, like Stuller's X1 alloy? If so, I'd be open to the X1 as it is nickel free and does not need plating.
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flyingpig said:
another comparison.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3891965.htm
vs
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2701315
ACA is not that much more expensive, although it is a bit smaller..

However, the following is a case where ACA does not offer a good value IMHO.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3750400
vs
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3897565.htm
ACA is nearly 50% more expensive in comparison with a reaonsably well cut GIA ex..
ACAs in 0.9~1.0x carat range do not offer a good value in general in terms of % difference. . For 3.0c+, it is a completely different story.

Again, it really depends.
Click to expand...

I am totally with you on all that you have posted, and I want the 3 ct G VS1 ACA!!!!:love: :lol: But this last JA stone has an awful, visible feather right under the table, so that would be a huge dealbreaker for me. But yeah, their 90's are priced lower but not sure I see one I'd want in the G SI1's. Finding excellent stones to even compare isn't easy.
 
I went down the road of having an original ungraded diamond to having a superideal cut perfect stone, to a GIA XXX that I thought was a bargain, to only having superideal cuts or specialty cuts since. I've been through a few upgrades of ACAs for studs, and honestly, I'd keep right on getting larger ones if I didn't already have the largest in my circle of closest friends and family. They are beautiful and perfect, and I've had the pleasure of seeing really huge ones both in person at Whiteflash (like I tried on grateful4life's 5.59 ct stone, and I have had the pleasure of trying on some of m-2-b's ACAs including her last upgrade to 4.7 cts and her studs that are each the size of my engagement ring stone! WF has really good pricing, I think. I wish I didn't like diamonds so much, but since I do, I want the best! Once you have the best, it is hard to go backward. So I love the superideal cuts, but I do help people almost daily who are seeking greater size for the budget over top cut quality. I get that and respect that, but I guess I am a diamond snob (or maybe a connoisseur wannabe) !!!
 
PierreBear, as many have said this depends on what is importantt to you. I didn’t even care that much for diamonds until I bought my first AGS0 and then I was hooked. I am definitely a color and super ideal cut snob.
When we bought that first diamond we compared it to some GIAXXX and both of us picked the AGS0 as an obviously better diamond. When I decided I wanted a larger diamond all they had in my price range for an upgrade were GIAXXX so I bought one. I hated it, it simply didn’t perform as well in almost all lighting conditions. Every time I looked at it I was disappointed. I upgraded it within 4 months. Was it a beautiful diamond? Yes. It just wasn’t as nice as my previous diamond.
After reading about super ideal diamonds on PS I was curious if they would really out perform an AGS0. I was finally convinced I wanted one so I did some research priicng diamonds and settings among several PS vendors. I ended up picking WF and got an ACA. I couldn’t be happier with my diamond and my ring. Whiteflash was wonderful to work with.
Have fun shopping.
Marcy
 
And to answer your questions. I can tell the difference between GIAXXX and a super ideal. Only based on a small sampling but I do see a difference.
In my ering price range I would say there was about a 10% difference. My ACA is 1.52 F VS1.
 
I started off knowing absolutely nothing about diamonds many years ago. Came on PS, learned a little about cut, and, to play it safe, bought a super ideal cut diamond. It came with all the analysis, videos etc - things that, as a layman at that point in time, ensured I made a safe purchase with no doubt as to it's performance, as @MissGotRocks pointed out correctly. It was crisp, beautiful and stunning.

Over time, learning more about cut, as well as being able to compare GIA XXXs with specific cut parameters that I selected, I then compared it to my super ideal. The super ideal did perform a bit better, and was definitely more crisp, although the ones I selected was no slouch either.

Given the price premium (about 15% to 20%) and knowing what I know NOW, both about cut and my personal preference - for ME, I would choose a GIA XXX matching my cut parameters over a Super Ideal. At the size that I am looking at, the premium is hefty, and that extra bit of performance (say 15% increase) is not worth going down in size or color for it. Also, since I am equally fond of other shapes, their upgrade policies that only applies to rounds is moot for me (as I might end up wanting to upgrade to an EC / pear etc ...who knows?)

At the end of the day, I think you have to look at both and ask yourself the question if the premium is worth it to you. Many on PS feel that the level of precision is worth it, and they are undeniably beautiful. A few others on PS would prefer to spend it getting a higher color / clarity / size etc. You are the one wearing it every day - and it's up to you to determine what matters most to you.
 
nala said:
I really appreciate your honesty! I have been mulling over this question for a couple of weeks now. You are the only person who expresses regret at going with super ideal. I’ve done the math and I’d be looking at spending exactly what you said and stay within the same specs except for cut. I’ve yet to compare to ideal stones, so I can see fit myself and let my eyes decide. Right now, my wallet is not leaning towards it. Lol.
Click to expand...

I don’t think anyone who buys Super Ideal starts at 0.5 and aims to upgrade to 1.5 or 2ct. Except me. Therefore I think most Super Ideal buyers go in knowing what they are paying for at higher carats and of course they are happy since they specifically chose to pay those prices for maximum performance.

On the other hand, there are also plenty of 3ct-4ct-5ct diamond owners on this forum who did not choose to go the Super Ideal route and are thrilled with their ideal cut diamonds. I think this is really important because I see people posting that they want a 3 ct diamond on a budget and people tell them to buy a Super Ideal cut of two thirds the size for the money they have and upgrade later. But how does that make financial sense if the person wants a 3 ct now, at a certain budget, (and it is certainly possible with some frantic digging), and you tell them to pay another $7,000 more (could be 30% more) in the unforeseeable future for something that may not be $7,000 more sparkly to them? It’s like someone says they want big and sparkly please help and you suggest they go smaller and super sparkly instead. For people who want big and are on a very specific budget and are happy with ideal cut performance, Super Ideal is not the answer.

Ultimately, it is extremely important to remember, in context, that diamonds all over the world are sold NOT with HCA tools and Idealscope images. I have seen with my own eyes in natural lighting and shaded sunlight, diamonds that I feel performed decently despite shitty HCA (less than 3) and idealscope images with some leakage. Certain diamonds can perform well.

A 3 ct ideal cut diamond is nothing to snort about - it can be very very beautiful and well cut. A Super Ideal can perform even better - at a very significant price premium. Whether or not that’s worth it is a personal decision. But again, I don’t think that non-super-ideal-cut diamonds are lacking in some way. They are a perfectly beautiful choice that can perform well. But I am definitely a relaxed diamond lover who loves certain diamonds as long as they are HCA-approved and I usually view my diamonds regularly only in certain lighting and therefore I am not as particular about the exact flashes or who flashes more than the other.

Nala, I think you should get your jeweler to order a Super Ideal diamond and see if you prefer it $XXXX more than your current stone, bearing the additional price in mind. If I were you personally, I would much rather have a dramatically bigger stone so I can see where my money went, but I read that you don’t want to go bigger. In that case, maybe getting a recut (ugh it would kill me to shave off weight) or buying a Super Ideal stone might make sense for you, but again, it’s $7,000 more plus the loss on your current stone if you sell it instead of trading in with your jeweler. Maybe your jeweler can find you a really outstandingly sparkly GIA stone after calling in a few GIA ex stones with HCA<2 and you can compare all of those to your current diamond and a Super Ideal stone and then make a final decision based on budget and what you see.
 
I drank the WF koolaid and can compare an ACA to a non-ACA, GIA XXX diamond daily. It just out-sparkles the hell out of the GIA! That said, there are other vendors who do compare (CBI/BGD)
 
Alexiszoe said:
I started off knowing absolutely nothing about diamonds many years ago. Came on PS, learned a little about cut, and, to play it safe, bought a super ideal cut diamond. It came with all the analysis, videos etc - things that, as a layman at that point in time, ensured I made a safe purchase with no doubt as to it's performance, as @MissGotRocks pointed out correctly. It was crisp, beautiful and stunning.

Over time, learning more about cut, as well as being able to compare GIA XXXs with specific cut parameters that I selected, I then compared it to my super ideal. The super ideal did perform a bit better, and was definitely more crisp, although the ones I selected was no slouch either.

Given the price premium (about 15% to 20%) and knowing what I know NOW, both about cut and my personal preference - for ME, I would choose a GIA XXX matching my cut parameters over a Super Ideal. At the size that I am looking at, the premium is hefty, and that extra bit of performance (say 15% increase) is not worth going down in size or color for it. Also, since I am equally fond of other shapes, their upgrade policies that only applies to rounds is moot for me (as I might end up wanting to upgrade to an EC / pear etc ...who knows?)

At the end of the day, I think you have to look at both and ask yourself the question if the premium is worth it to you. Many on PS feel that the level of precision is worth it, and they are undeniably beautiful. A few others on PS would prefer to spend it getting a higher color / clarity / size etc. You are the one wearing it every day - and it's up to you to determine what matters most to you.
Click to expand...

Omg this is my EXACT experience. I bought Super Ideal because I was scared so I followed people’s recommendations to buy the “best” with all the scope images and hearts and arrows. Now I would totally choose a GIA XXX with what I’ve learned. I agree, the premium really gets hefty at bigger sizes and many people decide that don’t want to pay that premium but still end up with a great GIA XXX diamond. Like you said, no slouch.
 
My wife's GOG H&A GIA Ex, Ex (before the XXX came along) put out the fire on HoF stones for a lot less $$$. A HoF vendor was surprised on how well my wife's GOG stone performed vs his HoF stones...:lol:

So, do you need a branded super ideal cut to perform like a super ideal cut? ..my answer is no, but a tightly cut unbranded stone like the one above doesn't grow on trees. Here is the Sarin scan for the diamond above.
 

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Some of the HoF vendors here in Australia have drunk the CTF-HoF KoolAid and keep insisting to me that only HoF can cut to that level of precision. I used to try and argue with them (to set the record straight) but now I just smile, nod my head sagely in fake agreement with them and then walk out of their stores once I’m finished perusing their display stock.
 
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