Absolutely NO marriage momentum

[Becky P]

Hi all! So, I''ve been reading the board for a while now, post occassionally, but I''m needing some girl power now more then ever. So, here''s our story in a nutshell.

We met in college and dated for a year. The week I met him, I called my mom and told her I met the man I was gonna marry. We broke up after 1 yr. because we were in different places (he was graduating and looking into med schools, and I was younger, partying, and distracting him from studying). We didn''t keep in touch after he graduated, although I always wondered what had happened to the love of my life. Fast forward 4 years, and I get home from work one day to a message on my answering machine from him saying that he was in town training for a new job and did I want to get together for dinner to catch up? I called back, we went to dinner, the rest is history. We''ve been dating since the end of Oct. in 2002. We were long distance from Chicago to Pittsburgh until June 2003 when I moved to New Mexico. We did New Mexico to Pittsburgh long distance until I finished my master''s in Dec. 2005. So, I''ve been living here in Pittsburgh 9 months now.

We had the marriage talk in June 2005. He said he definitely saw himself marrying me, but he just wasn''t ready. I let things simmer and didn''t really bring it back up - we were still across the country. We finally decided that we needed to be in the same city to see if things were really gonna work out, and my job was more transferrable, thus I moved. In Feb. 2006, we had a drunken marriage talk, so that doesn''t really count. Basically, if I bring up marriage, he changes the subject as fast as he can. He''s always been the type to take a LONG time making decisions - even silly ones like the countertop color (took 8 months!), so I''m very aware that this is going to take time, but we''ve been freakin'' dating for almost 4 yrs this time, plus 1 year the first time, so seriously how long am I gonna have to wait!?!

So, he cooks me dinner nearly every night at his house (oh yeah, did I mention that I got my own place when I moved here? yeah, we don''t live together - neither of us believe in living together until marriage). One day in June after he cooked dinner and we spent a wonderful evening together, I paused the Tivo, and told him that I needed to ask a favor from him. I told him that I loved him with all my heart and that I see the two of us spending our lives together. And, that I knew he needed more time, but that I needed to know how much more time he was gonna need. I told him that I wanted him to take the next 1-2 weeks to think about where things stood and then for him to get back to me. Knowing that he wasn''t going to bring it back up, 2 weeks to the day (early July), I brought it up again. I asked if he had been thinking about what I''d asked him. He said yes. We had a serious heart to heart - the longest discussion we''d ever had about marriage. He said he definitely sees himself marrying me, but he''s really not ready yet and he doesn''t know when he will be. I told him that I wanted to respect his need for time and the need to be ready, but that I wasn''t going to wait forever.

Well, we''re now about 2 1/2 months since that last discussion, and there has been no change. So, I''ve realized that he just doesn''t get how important this is to me and that he is beginning to get to the point where he could really end up loosing me. I want to give him every chance in the world, but I am unwilling to wait indefinitely. So, I''ve decided that I need to start working in things every chance I can. The first chance was this weekend. He was telling me about a bonus he just got for work, and I jokingly said, oh yeah, maybe part of that can go towards the ring fund. He was like, ring? what ring? I mean, he was totally dumbfounded and had NO idea what I was referring to. So, I said, a ring, you know an engagement ring so that we can get married.

So, there is NO marriage momentum here ladies, and I need to create some! My thought is, in addition to working in things during conversation is also to send him pics of rings I like. But, I realized that I hate the way most rings look on my fingers, so I think this week a girlfriend and I are gonna go out and look at rings so I can see what shape/style I like best. Then, I can send him pics of ones I know I like. Does this sound too crazy? The last thing I wanna do is scare him off! But, he''s seriously gotta start considering this because I''m not just gonna be waiting forever waiting for him to figure out when he''s ready to get married if he''s not even thinking about it.

The other thing is that, I moved here so we could see if things would work out, and they obviously are working out. So, I don''t understand why he''s not ready to move forward. I feel like, to be fair, I''ve got to give him at least until I''ve lived here for one year, which will be the end of Dec. 2006. In my head, I''ve decided that if he hasn''t proposed by March 31, 2007, then I''m breaking up with him - for those of you who have read Closing the Deal, I''ll be pulling the bluff. And, if it does end up being the end, then I know I''m strong enough to be okay with that. But, to be honest, I really don''t want to have to get to that point. I don''t want to have to break up with him just to see if he''ll ask me to marry him. I want to do it on his own!

Well, this is super long, I know. Thanks for reading ladies! I guess I''d just like an outside opinion of what ya''ll think. Is there something I''m missing here? Any suggestions? ideas? ways other people were able to continue bringing the idea of marriage up without driving their boyfriends crazy?

 

[Mara]

hi becky...here''s a Q for you. why don''t you just have another serious and frank discussion with him and lay all your cards out on the table. in your head you say you have these deadlines, isn''t it fair for him to know what he''s up against? obviously the guy is mega clueless if he responded to your ring joke like that....i don''t know if just dropping hints here and there is going to get through to him. that could lead to frustration on your part and eventual bitterness, breakup, ai yi yi, who knows.

here is something that is a red flag for me in your post. you mentioned you had the frank discussion a few months ago and he was honest and said he wasn''t sure when he would be ready. you said ''well it''s been 2.5 months and there''s been no progress''. was there anything in the discussion where he said he''s not ready and not sure when he would be ready that led you to believe that 2.5 months was a timeframe he was okay with progress? because if you just left it at okay you''re not ready, i''ll give you time, then to me 2.5 months is not much time at all. maybe he is thinking ''okay i have another year to think this over'' and you are thinking ''well 2 months has passed, chop chop buddy!''.

it sounds to me like there is a set of expectations from your end and he is just living in la la land as to what they are. i am such a fan of being up front, honest and frank about these types of huge life decisions. i think you need to have another discussion and start trying to feel for some timelines. what does HE feel comfortable with for a timeline? what do you feel comfy with? are they meshed at all? if he says well i need at least another year, are you going to be okay with that?

right now it just seems to me like you two are totally misaligned on expectations, timelines, priorities. and if you just have this mental ''deadline'' in your head, then i think you could just be setting yourself up for failure and ''calling of the bluff'' or whatever. if you really know what you want and it''s him, then i would have another convo and try to get some deadlines and timelines set. i think also how he reacts to that will be telling. if he does not want to conform to any sort of timeline, even if it''s 6 months or a year down the road, what will you do then? you say you won''t wait, so will you leave?

what you have said so far is basically what i did. we had a convo after being together 2 years, where i said hey i have to know if we are heading somewhere together....and i said take 6 months to figure that out and just tell me YES we are going to be together in the future, you don''t have to propose at the end of the 6 months but i need to know if you feel this the way i do or else i HAVE to leave the relationship. because i am not just in it to be hanging out with someone and having fun. i want a future with YOU. i said are you okay with 6 months for you to figure that out? he said yes he was and he thought it was reasonable.

so i would remind him of the convo from time to time...just exactly as you said ''so are you thinking about what we talked about'' and he said yes he was...one night he told me after a bunch of wine that he was way more ready to get married than i thought and i should just take him to look at rings.

OKAY. no one has to tell me twice. the next weekend i took him to our first jewelry store! we had a stone a month later and 2 months later were engaged. it was right around the 6 month timeline for him to only tell me he wanted to be with me. funny how it needed to take him downing some wine for his real feelings to come out...that he wanted me to just kind of take hold and run with it. aren''t men funny? we were engaged for 1.5 years and have been married for 2+ years now. i think every story is different but i can totally relate to wanting to have the cards on the table. but i think you need to establish some sort of timeline that you both feel good about for this to be moving fwd.

anyway, good luck...and hope this helped somewhat.

 

[ladykemma]

remember that men don''t take or "hear" hints. it''s not part of their make up.

how old are you both?

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I can totally relate to you. Waiting is the hardest part. For me I just wanted to hear those words "will you marry me." He, like most men, didn't understand why I thought being married meant he loved me more than he did as my boyfriend. Guys just don't think like we do. Luckily after many, many talks (I am pro communication), tears, stress, wondering...he set himself a deadline in June 2004 to propose by June 2005. I stopped pressuring him since I couldn't very well be hard on him until July 2005. That thanksgiving we had both our families visiting to NC and I really thought he would do it then. It was such a perfect weekend. Everyone got along so well. Well, I am sure you can guess it didn't happen

I was so disappointed. Crushed really (which probably wasn't fair since he still had awhile). I just hate surprises. They stress me out and as much as I love, love that he wanted and waited to surprise me it was very hard. Anyways, of course I told him my disappointed and for Valentine's day he surprised me by taking me to our B&M and ordering my Tacori setting. He was SO cute about it. I remember him saying, "do you want to look at some stones while we are here?"

He wasn't proposing but showing me he WAS serious and DID love me. Well, finally he proposed a month shy of his deadline. You know what? It was really worth the wait. I know it is hard to believe now but you'll see. I was prepared to move out July 2005 if I didn't have a ring. Bluffing doesn't always work in the ways of the heart. You have to be ready to actually DO it. So my best advice is would to be stay strong and have a clearer conversation with him. He needs to know how you feel.

ETA: when we did finally get married we had been dating 5 1/2 years so it was a very long wait. I wish I had known about this site while I was a LIW. It is such a great support system.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

I totally know what you are going through. My Bf and I live together, we have for over a year we are going on 2 years total. I feel like he gets everything so why buy the cow??? I have been dropping hints and have been doing things to see it my way. But I can''t force him to give me a ring. I was all prepared to move out at our 2 year mark and then, he got me a puppy. So I have to think of another course of action.

Patience is a virtue. You must rely on it in order to get to where you want to go. Its like getting a degree, you have to work hard at it, study for it and have patience that someday you will eventually get there.

 

[Becky P]

I''m 27, and he''s 29. I''ll be 28 in April 2007, and he''ll be 30 in Feb. 2007. I guess part of me getting really antsy right now is that I ALWAYS thought I would get married when I was 28. It''s been stuck in my head ever since I can remember, and now that I''m getting close to being 28, and am nowhere even close to getting engaged, I''m starting to get impatient. He and I have known each other since 1998, so I feel like he should either know that I''m the one or not by now. He *says* he sees himself with me in the future, he *says* I''m the only woman he''s ever seen himself marrying, but he never DOES anything about it.

Mara, I like your idea about a 6 month timeframe, yet I''m not quite sure what to ask him to do during that time other than figure out if he wants to propose. We''ve already had the, "do you see yourself with me?" discussion, and that answer was already yes. The problem is, since June 2005, the answer has been "yes, I see myself with you, I''m just not ready yet". So, at what point does "I''m not ready" actually mean "You''re not the one for me and that''s why I''m not ready".

 

[~*Alexis*~]

So, at what point does "I''m not ready" actually mean "You''re not the one for me and that''s why I''m not ready".


That point comes when you decide that enough is enough and you just have to move on if he doesn''t commit. I understand where you are coming from with the age thing and about being married at 28, but that has nothing to do with your relationship and if that is something that you are concerned with than you have bigger fish to fry. You will not be married by 28. You may be engaged when you are 28 but not married. If being married is that important to you, speak up. Do you plan on kids? That could be a topic of discussion for you 2. I mean. if you want kids than he better pick up the pace. That could be an angle. Is he not ready because he is not where he wants to be at his job? Making a certain amount of $$? Management? That could be one thing to consider. However he needs to realize that you moved across the country and gave up a lot of things in order to see if things would work out or not. Its been a year of living in the same state so he better be ready. I would just tell him flat out-Figure it out and make it soon.

Communication is key!

 

[Cailet]

hello - from another gal whose boy is SLOW with decsisions.

I agree with Mara - you need to sit the guy down and lay your cards on the table. You absolutley are not willing to wait past March 2007 for a proposal? Let him know. You need him to give you a more tangible timeline then "i need more time"? Let him know.

Guys are really really dense sometimes. You could drop all the hints in the world and they would still have no clue. And to be fair to your guy you should really be letting him know what is going on in your head. Especially if you are setting deadlines he doesn''t know about and getting frustrated that he is not making progress -- he is not going to understand why you are so upset.

Good luck - hopefully a chat will get you guys back on track and headed in the same direction!

 

[Becky P]

Alexis-
Thank you for your blunt and honest assessment! It made me laugh! Yes, I know I probably won''t get married at 28 anymore, but I''d sure as heck like to be heading in that directions.

As far as why he''s not ready, money is definitely not an issue. He''s got a great job that he loves. He makes good money there. He owns property. He maxs out his retirement fund every year. He''s got a considerable amount of savings (more than enough for a ring!) I really think the biggest issue is his parent''s relationship. They have been fighting for as long as I''ve known him (199, and just last year they separated for a while. They are back together now, but it''s always tense and akward to be around them. Neither of us believe in divorce, and we want to make sure it will last. But, in matters of the heart, there''s never any guarantee. And, no amount of waiting is going to change the fact that over 50% of marriages end in divorce. But, I''ve always said, are we going to hold back because we''re afraid of what might or might not happen in the future? IMO, life is too short to not be with the one you love.

I know he loves me and wants to marry me... one day. But, if I just sit back and patiently wait, then it could take forever! Some examples of decisions he''s had to make:
Color of kitchen countertop: 8 months
Putting us on a family plan with our cell phones: 4 months
Wanting me to move here: 10 months

So, with him taking so long to make small decisions, I cannot even imagine how long it''s gonna take for such a big decision as marriage. If things are going to move forward, I''m gonna have to take action...

 

[firebirdgold]

Date: 9/18/2006 8:57:01 AM
Author: Becky P
So, at what point does ''I''m not ready'' actually mean ''You''re not the one for me and that''s why I''m not ready''.

I''m sorry, but you''re getting pretty close to that point right now. I''m afraid to say that there have been several women on PS who had bf''s who have said the exact same thing, eventually broke up with their gfs, and then married the next d@## girl they met in less than a year.

Here''s one hint he should get like it''s been driven into his head by a hammer: Buy ''He''s just not that in to you'' and leaving on your living room table or nightstand. That should get the conversational ball rolling.

I''ve never been keen on the deadline business just simply because men can be like mules. The harder you push the harder the dig in their pointy hooves! I did use a deadline on mine, but in a more subtle way. I said that there was no freaking way in H@$$ I was going to his sister''s wedding if I was still just his girlfriend. I was going to be introduced to his family with a ring on my hand or not at all! It didn''t make him want to marry me, it just gave me a timeline since he told me not to worry.

That said, tell him flat out that you''re fustrated and scared that I''m not ready yet really means I don''t really know. I know it''s different with different people, but all the people I''ve asked who are married or getting married (including us) knew within a month of meeting. Usually within the week. So let''s face it, he knows if he wants to marry you, if he''s not sure at this point then he''s not the right one for you. You deserve a guy who can''t wait to be your husband. Hopefully what he''s unsure of is if he believes in marriage at all or if he is capable of taking that leap of faith.

When you next have the conversation just make sure you are clear (if mushy) about how much you love him and how you knew from the day you met that you wanted to marry him someday.

 

[Mara]

Becky..quite honestly what I would do in your situation is put all your cards on the table and say hey you know what? we''ve been together for XYZ. we broke up and got back together which shows us we want to be together. we are madly in love and i know that i want to spend my life with you. you say that you feel the same way with me but you aren''t sure when you will be ready? newsflash buddy, i am not going to wait around forever. i don''t think it is unreasonable to say that by march of next year you should know for sure if you can take that next step, because if you cannot then i will have to end the relationship and leave and seek a partner who CAN put their money where their mouth is. i am not going to sit around waiting for you to decide i am the right countertop for you.

that is essentially what i told my now-hubby when we were talking. i said look i LOVE you. i want to spend my life with you. i need to know that is what you want too so that i can know we are both on the same page about our future. i don''t think i am asking for the moon here, and in a reasonable timeline. he agreed. you guys have already had the ''i see you in my future'' convo so you need to find out what he is thinking as to a timeline for marriage.

there are only two ways this can go. he responds favorably and agrees that a timeline makes sense and responds favorably in that timeline to propose or whatever....or he doesn''t. you have to take that 2nd potential into account and be sure and ready you CAN walk if you have to. because if he doesn''t think you are serious about leaving him, he might not respond the way you want him to. when i told greg that if he didn''t know in 6 months that i was THE ONE he wanted to marry then i''d have to cut losses and move on. that i was not going to be one of those girls who waited around for him to make up his mind. that would drive me insane. it would have been so hard to do that but i had to respect myself and my own wishes if he couldn''t make his own decisions.

some people are more patient than others but i don''t think that when it comes to huge life decisions that the female should just wait around for the guy to get a friggin clue. just my two cents but i think you need to have that discussion again and he needs to be REALLY CLEAR on what your feelings are and what your mental timelines are. and if he says well i know for sure i won''t be ready by march of next year, what will you do then?? what if he says he needs a year at least? think about that too.

i know that guys can take a while to do things, i have mentioned this in other threads....greg can take a few months to make decisions or similar. that''s why i gave him the 6 month timeline. i figured gosh in 6 months of seeing me 5x a week AND after being with me for 2 years, you should know if i am the person you want to be with right? i also told him i wouldn''t suddenly grow horns when we got engaged, i wouldn''t CHANGE into anyone else. (i told him my horns were already visible, what you see is what you get! hehee).

IMO giving a reasonable timeline that you can both stick to makes the most sense...before you get to the point where you are so frustrated that you give him a 2 week timeline or something and then it backfires.

good luck!

 

[Rosebud8506]

I agree with Mara. The timeline is the way to go. If he waits so long to make a decision about anyTHING (i.e. counter tops, etc.) this could very well be the same deal. My husband is the same way, he has been teetor-tottering for 3 months now over the purchase of a lamp and an end table at Crate & Barrell?!?

Men take forever to make up their minds. I realize this now that we are married and we bought a home together. The only difference here, is mine was pretty secretive about anything related to the thought of marriage. They don''t always tell you what is on their minds - he was preparing this proposal for 5 months and had the ring the whole time!!!! I was clueless.

Maybe he has something planned and you may not know? Are any of your girlfriends in the same boat, or are they married?

His parents separation might have a lot to do with it as well - you may be right....

 

[Christa]

Date: 9/18/2006 11:43:46 AM
Author: Mara
some people are more patient than others but i don''t think that when it comes to huge life decisions that the female should just wait around for the guy to get a friggin clue.

I could not agree more . . . why, in the 21st century, do so many of us sit around waiting for a guy to decide he wants us? This is the only life you get, Becky, so if this guy isn''t going in the direction you want your life to go, you may have to cut your losses and look for one who is, painful as that would be.

That said, I sincerely hope he grabs a clue so it doesn''t come to that!

 

[KimberlyH]

Just piping in to agree with everything Mara is saying. I don''t think it''s fair for you to set a deadline and not share it with him, it''s setting yourself up for failure. You sound like a totally reasonable, level headed person, you just have to que him in on where you stand. Talking can be difficult, especially when you might not hear what you want, but at least you''ll know where you stand.

Much luck to you!

 

[NYCsparkle]

Life is too short to wait for someone else to make a your life complete. Make up your mind and stick with it. You and your bf have been together long enough for him to know what he wants. Ask him flat out, "If you had to make a choice today, what would it be?" If he is indecisive, be the decisive one and state your intentions of leaving after the time line you have in mind. He might never be ready and why should you have to think maybe it''ll happen. Have a very frank discussion and don''t be afraid to tell him exactly how you feel. You''ll get it off your chest, feel better, and will probably be better off in the long run whatever the outcome is. I hope all goes well for you. Keep us posted.

 

[ladykemma]

a year is too long. give him til january.

 

[Becky P]

Ladies -
Thank you for all the feedback. I have been processing through all of your comments. Here''s what I''m thinking... I think that I will bring up another discussion sometime in the next week to 10 days (he travels a lot, and, it''s always good to have the discussion when we''re really happy together - not on the phone). I''m nearly 99.9% sure that he''s not bluffing me or planning something in secret. I just know him too well and know in my gut that he''s not planning something right now.

I think that a 6 month timeframe for deciding if we''re going to get engaged or not is reasonable. Knowing his personality, January would be too soon - he would feel forced into it, and that''s not how I want to get engaged. I want him to do it because he wants to. I think a timeline that gives him 3 months after I''ve lived here for a year is acceptable. I think he needs to have at least a year to see that, yes, it does work.

I agree that I need a more tangible timeline than just "I need more time". I think that is why I am still worrying so much about it. "I need more time" could be 6 months or could be 6 years, and let''s face it, if we allow them to, most guys will drag it out for 6 years, and I will not let that happen.

If he said that 6 months was too short of a timeframe to get engaged, which he probably will, then the absolute most I''m willing to give him is 3 more months. I do not want to attend my little brother (5 yrs younger) wedding next July without being engaged. But, I don''t want to straight out tell him 9 months in the beginning because then if he wants more time it stretches out even longer.

Yes, I would like to be engaged by March 31, 2007. If he agrees to that timeline, then I''ll hold him to it. I''m a strong enough woman to follow through on what I say I''m gonna do. If we discuss it and decide on a 9 month timeframe, then I''ll give him 9 months - if it''s a decision we come to TOGETHER.

I can''t see breaking up with someone because he asks for a 9 month instead of 6 month timeframe. We''ve already spent so much time together and I do truly know that we''re meant to be together that I can''t see throwing away something good just because our timelines are a little different.

Also, I do know that he sees his future with me. We frequently discuss future related issues such as financial goals, where we want to live, how many kids we want, how our kids are going to be so beautiful with his dark skin (his family is originally from Egypt - he was born here). He brings up these topics just as much as I do. So, I know we both see our future together, it''s just, he doesn''t seem to get that being engaged and getting married need to happen before these other future related things can... I know he wants to marry me - it''s just a matter of actually getting him to take that leap of faith.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/18/2006 8:57:01 AM
Author: Becky P
I''m 27, and he''s 29. I''ll be 28 in April 2007, and he''ll be 30 in Feb. 2007. I guess part of me getting really antsy right now is that I ALWAYS thought I would get married when I was 28. It''s been stuck in my head ever since I can remember, and now that I''m getting close to being 28, and am nowhere even close to getting engaged, I''m starting to get impatient. He and I have known each other since 1998, so I feel like he should either know that I''m the one or not by now. He *says* he sees himself with me in the future, he *says* I''m the only woman he''s ever seen himself marrying, but he never DOES anything about it.

You say "I always imagined I''d get married when I was 28." Most guys I know in this day/age don''t think about getting married until mid-30s. So, while you''re ready now (because you envisioned 2....if he''s one of those "oh, maybe I''ll marry in my 30s types", that may be why he''s not ready now. You''re ahead of his timeline....if he even has one!

The point I''m making is, the fact that you''ve been together seven years has little or nothing to do with his timeline in his mind. He''s a man...they don''t think like women do. Yes, seven years is enough time to figure out if you are the person he wants to marry, but that doesn''t mean it automatically makes him ready earlier than his timeline (if he has one).

Date: 9/18/2006 8:57:01 AM
Author: Becky P
Mara, I like your idea about a 6 month timeframe, yet I''m not quite sure what to ask him to do during that time other than figure out if he wants to propose. We''ve already had the, ''do you see yourself with me?'' discussion, and that answer was already yes. The problem is, since June 2005, the answer has been ''yes, I see myself with you, I''m just not ready yet''. So, at what point does ''I''m not ready'' actually mean ''You''re not the one for me and that''s why I''m not ready''.

I don''t think there''s a lot you can ask him, but I think there''s a lot you can tell him.

I think it''s fair to say "I know I want to get married, and I know that you''re the person I want to do that with, so I''m already ready. When we talked in June 05, you said that I''m the person you''d want to marry, but that you weren''t ready. Since then, more than a year has gone by, and I''m feeling uncertain about where you are on the readiness scale (0-10, 10 being make the proposal)."

"I''ve accomplished my graduate degree, secured a job, and have established an adult life here. I''m at the stage/phase where I want to marry and begin a family. I can wait 6-12 months (or whatever is a comfortable timeline for you, Becky) if you can comfortably see yourself proposing in that time frame, but I honestly can''t wait indefinitely to begin the rest of my life."

What do you think about what I''ve said?"

....and then wait for him to reply.

 

[phoenixgirl]

OK, I know how it can feel when you post a lot of personal information and then people view your situation more negatively than you do. That's not what I'm trying to do. I hope all of our advice and feedback can be helpful in some way. We don't know you or your boyfriend, so our perspective is definitely going to be different than those of your friends and family.

I don't see any problem in giving him through March as long as there's no reason for you to need to move elsewhere due to job opportunities. However, for your own sake, I would caution against too many extensions. What if he doesn't propose, and then you break up with him? Are you then going to set yourself a later deadline to see if he comes around? What if he doesn't propose, but just begs for you to come back, and then you're back to square one? You will need to be prepared to actually cut ties AND move on. If he comes back to you eventually, you can evaluate what you want at that point, but you can't expect it. I can see this dragging on and on forever with the idea that you shouldn't move/date someone else in case he comes around by x date. Honestly, you sounded a little unsure when you said you really would break up with him, and I worry that you are hoping for him to come around in that case. You have to do what is best for you without trying to guess how things will play out.

I would also caution against looking at rings before you know if he's ever going to want to get married. If he was at all open to the idea, he might propose and then want to have a long engagement. The fact that he isn't even ready to think about getting engaged after so many years together and your uprooting your life to move there is troublesome.

Some relationships seem stuck because the couple is living together and the man is getting all the benefits of being married, but that's not what's going on in your case. Don't you wonder why he doesn't want to be with you all the time, even without the marriage license? It sounds like he is trying to hang on to his independence. The question is . . . why? If I'm doing the math correctly, he graduated college some time around 1998, which would make him about 30 years old. To me, that would place him beyond the age of "wanting to hang on to the partying years" and would lend credence to the idea that (sorry) "he's just not that into you."

My DH and I met in 1998 in college and dated for six years before we got married in December of 2004. I know that for him, the turning point came when his dad took him out to lunch a year before we got married and told him that it was time to marry "that nice girl." Somehow this really made an impression on DH. I had already planned a trip to Europe for us in April (DH was a French major and was always saying he wanted to go back, but never made plans, so finally I said, "OK, this imaginary trip is always a year off, let's just plan it for six months from now and actually go!"). So that gave him a good opportunity to propose.

I think what my FIL said really made a difference. Somehow DH needed the message to come from someone else, but not me. I wonder if a wake up call from a friend or family member would help your boyfriend.

"So, there is NO marriage momentum here ladies, and I need to create some!" I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I think what you really need is someone who doesn't need the momentum created for him. It's not like you're both 22 and have been dating a year. This is a man who has no professional or educational impediments to getting married, whom you have dated for four years. You transferred your job and moved your whole life to be with him. You have done enough. You shouldn't have to coax or ease him into marrying you. You should be so excited about getting married that you both can't wait to go look at rings. He should be trying to plan a wonderful proposal so he can finally give you the ring and see your joy at wearing it. My gut is that it doesn't matter when the ultimatum happens -- NOTHING will happen without it, and maybe nothing will happen with it. For your sake, I'd do it sooner than later. Actually losing you may snap him out of his inertia, but I doubt hints and discussions will.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 9/23/2006 1:08:00 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
OK, I know how it can feel when you post a lot of personal information and then people view your situation more negatively than you do. That''s not what I''m trying to do. I hope all of our advice and feedback can be helpful in some way. We don''t know you or your boyfriend, so our perspective is definitely going to be different than those of your friends and family.


I don''t see any problem in giving him through March as long as there''s no reason for you to need to move elsewhere due to job opportunities. However, for your own sake, I would caution against too many extensions. What if he doesn''t propose, and then you break up with him? Are you then going to set yourself a later deadline to see if he comes around? What if he doesn''t propose, but just begs for you to come back, and then you''re back to square one? You will need to be prepared to actually cut ties AND move on. If he comes back to you eventually, you can evaluate what you want at that point, but you can''t expect it. I can see this dragging on and on forever with the idea that you shouldn''t move/date someone else in case he comes around by x date. Honestly, you sounded a little unsure when you said you really would break up with him, and I worry that you are hoping for him to come around in that case. You have to do what is best for you without trying to guess how things will play out.


I would also caution against looking at rings before you know if he''s ever going to want to get married. If he was at all open to the idea, he might propose and then want to have a long engagement. The fact that he isn''t even ready to think about getting engaged after so many years together and your uprooting your life to move there is troublesome.


Some relationships seem stuck because the couple is living together and the man is getting all the benefits of being married, but that''s not what''s going on in your case. Don''t you wonder why he doesn''t want to be with you all the time, even without the marriage license? It sounds like he is trying to hang on to his independence. The question is . . . why? If I''m doing the math correctly, he graduated college some time around 1998, which would make him about 30 years old. To me, that would place him beyond the age of ''wanting to hang on to the partying years'' and would lend credence to the idea that (sorry) ''he''s just not that into you.''


My DH and I met in 1998 in college and dated for six years before we got married in December of 2004. I know that for him, the turning point came when his dad took him out to lunch a year before we got married and told him that it was time to marry ''that nice girl.'' Somehow this really made an impression on DH. I had already planned a trip to Europe for us in April (DH was a French major and was always saying he wanted to go back, but never made plans, so finally I said, ''OK, this imaginary trip is always a year off, let''s just plan it for six months from now and actually go!''). So that gave him a good opportunity to propose.


I think what my FIL said really made a difference. Somehow DH needed the message to come from someone else, but not me. I wonder if a wake up call from a friend or family member would help your boyfriend.


''So, there is NO marriage momentum here ladies, and I need to create some!'' I know this isn''t what you want to hear, but I think what you really need is someone who doesn''t need the momentum created for him. It''s not like you''re both 22 and have been dating a year. This is a man who has no professional or educational impediments to getting married, whom you have dated for four years. You transferred your job and moved your whole life to be with him. You have done enough. You shouldn''t have to coax or ease him into marrying you. You should be so excited about getting married that you both can''t wait to go look at rings. He should be trying to plan a wonderful proposal so he can finally give you the ring and see your joy at wearing it. My gut is that it doesn''t matter when the ultimatum happens -- NOTHING will happen without it, and maybe nothing will happen with it. For your sake, I''d do it sooner than later. Actually losing you may snap him out of his inertia, but I doubt hints and discussions will.

What she said. *points*

 

[Maria D]

phoenixgirl said:

>>Some relationships seem stuck because the couple is living together and the man is getting all the benefits of being married, but that''s not what''s going on in your case. Don''t you wonder why he doesn''t want to be with you all the time, even without the marriage license? It sounds like he is trying to hang on to his independence. The question is . . . why? If I''m doing the math correctly, he graduated college some time around 1998, which would make him about 30 years old. To me, that would place him beyond the age of ''wanting to hang on to the partying years'' and would lend credence to the idea that (sorry) ''he''s just not that into you.''
I was also thinking ''the question is ...why?'' but I can think of another answer besides ''he''s just not that into you.'' Maybe he just likes living alone. I know I did and so did my now DH. If outside circumstances hadn''t led to us marrying we probably would have kept dating exclusively with our own separate homes for many years. As it happened, he got transferred out of hte country and I couldn''t see going with him without being married ... because I wouldn''t have been able to get a work permit without being his wife. In Becky''s circumstance, I probably would have done the exact same thing; moved there and got my own place. So ''marriage momentum'' was created by the immigration laws of a foreign country! Once we made the decision, it felt like we would have come to it on our own anyway, but really I think that''s just because we decided and made it work. Who knows what would have happened without that push?

Becky, when I read this:

>>So, he cooks me dinner nearly every night at his house
my first thought was -- are you sure you want to mess with this? You get to have your own place and HE cooks dinner for you nearly every night? Wow, I''m jealous!

If you were living together and one was fine with it while the other wanted to marry, I''d say the person wanting to marry should shake things up by moving out. Since you are not living together, maybe you could shake things up by being less available. Not in a ''game playing'' kind of way, but in a ''we''re not progessing/things are getting stale for me/won''t be coming by for dinner so often'' kind of way. The space could make either make him feel, whew, this is nice, good thing I didn''t get married -- or he might feel a little lonely -- and want to do something about it!

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 9/19/2006 12:30:42 PM
Author: Becky P
Also, I do know that he sees his future with me. We frequently discuss future related issues such as financial goals, where we want to live, how many kids we want, how our kids are going to be so beautiful with his dark skin (his family is originally from Egypt - he was born here).

HI:

Do you mind me asking if you are close to his family and get along? Any siblings of his already married or is he the eldest? Are his family any influence in deciding serious life and lifestyle issues?

cheers--Sharon

 

[Becky P]

Date: 9/25/2006 9:34:55 PM
Author: canuk-gal

Date: 9/19/2006 12:30:42 PM
Author: Becky P
Also, I do know that he sees his future with me. We frequently discuss future related issues such as financial goals, where we want to live, how many kids we want, how our kids are going to be so beautiful with his dark skin (his family is originally from Egypt - he was born here).

HI:

Do you mind me asking if you are close to his family and get along? Any siblings of his already married or is he the eldest? Are his family any influence in deciding serious life and lifestyle issues?

cheers--Sharon

Yes, his family and I are very close. He''s the oldest and has a younger sister who is my age (27). She is not married either. I think he respects his parents and their beliefs (they are Muslim). They do have some influence, but mainly he''s a pretty strong-willed man who makes his own decisions. To my knowledge, a Muslim man is able to marry a non-Muslin woman, but a Muslim woman could not marry a non-Muslim man. For those of you who know about birth order, he''s a first-born, which means that he can be pretty stubborn. So many people have been asking us when we''re gonna get engaged/married, and I think he''s digging in his heels partially because other people are having expectations of him. "Society" is telling him it''s time to get married, so he''s gonna balk the establishment so to speak.

Phoenix Girl and Mara D - I am still thinking about ya''lls comments... just not sure how to reply at this point.

 

[Becky P]

Well... 10 days ago, I gave myself a 10 day timeframe for having the marriage discussion again. I''ve attempted to bring it up a couple times, and somehow he has a way of re-directing the conversation. This morning, we basically got into a fight about it. Me saying, where do we stand, and him saying, you know where we stand, and nothing has changed. So, I decided to write a letter. Now, I know this may be the chicken way out, but it''s worked pretty well in the past because it helps me be really clear about what I''m saying and what I need/want, and, it allows him time to think about it before responding. So, here''s the letter I just emailed him... with borrowed snipets of some of the comments I received from ya''ll. Thanks ladies!

Babe-

I feel like when we talk about marriage and the future, we don’t seem to get anywhere, so I decided to write down my thoughts in an attempt to make them a little more coherent. I need for you to give this serious thought because it’s really important to me.

I feel really frustrated right now because it seems as though you don’t even want to talk to me about what you’re thinking and feeling. Babe, we’ve known each other for 8 ½ years. We dated for a year in college, almost 4 years this time, and we’ve lived in the same city for 9 months now. There’s obviously a reason that we’re still together, and I really believe that we both love each other dearly. Why, then, is talking about getting engaged and married such an obstacle? I do not know.

In June 2005, we talked at that Starbucks in New Mexico and you said you definitely saw yourself marrying me, but you just weren’t ready yet. In July of this year, you said the same thing. But, I’m getting to the point where I’m scared that “I’m not ready yet” really means “I don’t know”.

As much as I love you and want you in my life, I’m not willing to wait forever. I need a more tangible timeline than “I’m just not ready”. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that by March of 2007 you should know for sure if you can take that next step. I’m not saying you have to propose by March 2007. But I do need to know if you want a future with me or else I will HAVE to leave this relationship. As much as I love you, I’m not just in this to be hanging out and having fun. I need to know we are both on the same page. Look, I LOVE you, and I don’t think I’m asking for the moon here. But, I cannot wait indefinitely to begin the rest of my life. I want a future with YOU.

I want to be with a man who can’t wait to be my husband. I’d really love it if that man were you! I honestly cannot envision my life without you. I’ve known practically since the day we met in college that you were the one for me. We’re perfect together. We balance each other out. I know there are times when things aren’t perfect, but no relationship is. I want to give my entire heart to you. But, I need to know where you stand. I need to know what it is that you’re concerned about so we can work on this together.

Please, take some time. Think about this. And, let me know what you’re thinking.
I love you!
Becky : )

 

[firebirdgold]

oooh!

I''m impressed!

Good Luck!!

 

[Rosebud8506]

very good! keep us posted!!!

 

[Julian]

What a beautiful letter. Everything you said was very well put.

(crossing fingers for you!)

 

[NYCsparkle]

that letter is to the point without being confrontational about how you feel. it gives him a timeframe to gather his thoughts and decide what he wants with you. i hope all goes well.

 

[bee*]

Really good letter Becky-I hope that you get some answers out of it like a timeframe or something concrete!

 

[musey]

Great letter. I''m hoping you get a good reaction from him!! (crossing my fingers for you!)