Aa rrr ggg hhh So Close...

[perry]

So "D" and I were talking tonight, after she had got back from a 1 week trip to visit a gal-freind and think things over and the key points of the converstation went like this:

We were talking about a trip I was planning that she had been invited on; the question was did I pick her up and drive here out west and back; or did I fly her out west and back - spending our time together out west (my vacation is longer than hers - and I will be driving 2.5 days each way to get there and back).

Since I just spent and unespected $5000 (cash) on the van money is a little tight.

"So, I said, discussing the cost of the airline ticket, would you rather I pick you up and spend the money on a marriage liscense." (don''t know why I slipped in the line on the marriage liscense).

She said "Yes."

I paused, and carefully and nicely said "Thank You".

"Why" says she.

I said "You just told me you would marry me."

"Didn''t you know that"

"No"

"So much for good communication" says she.

I then said. "you know, if you are going to marry me, but am not quite sure of when yet, I consider that you are engaged to me."

She says "I guess so."

"I guess it is time to get you a ring" says I. (we have a long discussion on the ring - I can''t afford to get her the ring I want due to that $5000 (and I will not buy the ring unless I can pay for it), but am willing to get her a simple small engagement ring and upgrade later to the project ring I am working on - she is agreeable to the concept).

"Don''t get it yet" she says. I''m not realy ready to commit to marrying you...

We talk further.

She says that she would wear the ring if I got it (but did not guarantee that she would wear it all the time and tell the world).. She does not want me to spend my money untill she is sure that she will definietly marry me (although she says she want''s to marry me, but something is not right to say truely yes yet).

Argggghhhh

Any advice....

I meet her or pick her up in 1 week. Should I have a simple engagment ring with me?

Perry

 

[sxn675]

Hi Perry,

Um, I don''t really know how to say this, but no, I wouldn''t surprise her with an engagement ring. When you are engaged, you want it to be a time of pure joy, with both of you calling friends and family and all excited. It sounds like she''s not at that point, so I don''t think that you should rush her into it. Maybe you guys need more time? Good luck.

 

[MissAva]

Sorry Perry but if you just happen to have a ring with you it would be really pushy. The way she said what she sais indicates that she still needs more time.

 

[msb700]

Hi Perry..I agree with sxn675. when someone gets engaged, they can''t wait to tell the world, show off their ring and just beam with pride and content. It appears that she is not ready to take that step just yet. Give her sometime and perhpas this trip together will help establish her feelings...Wish you the best of luck!

 

[Kamuelamom]

I agree that not all the elements seem evident for a future commitment.

Yet............

 

[fountainfairfax]

I have to agree with the other ladies, Perry....I''d hold off on buying even a starter ring right now.

and let me say, I''m sorry she''s sending you such mixed signals- yes to the marriage license, no to the marriage commitment???? I think a long talk is in order and I wouldn''t do it during driving....serious discussions are better left to face-to-face sit down time, not when you''re piloting the van across the states. Buy her a plane ticket, promise yourself that you''ll have fun during the trip and see what happens.....

 

[Angel7]

I agree with the others.

Maybe though.......
Maybe she just said, "Don''t get the ring yet" because she knows you can''t afford much and she really wants the ering to be her "dream" ring? Just a thought.

Maybe it has nothing to do with wanting to be with you forever, maybe it''s just the thought of having a ring she''s not 100% happy with?

 

[FireGoddess]

I would not buy her an engagement ring yet, not even a simple one. She seems to be hemming and hawing on the topic, giving you mixed signals. As far as the "so much for good communication" comment goes...she should have directed it at HERSELF because in that conversation she first said the equivalent of "didn't you know I would marry you?" and then "I'm not ready to marry you." Anyway, I digress. At most I would show up there with some token of a sweet little "promise ring" or other token of the intent to take the next step in your relationship, but not have it be an engagement if she's not ready to do so.

ETA: When my DH and I got engaged I knew he didn't have a lot of money to buy a ring I really wanted, but I wanted to be engaged to hiim and I didn't care WHAT he showed up with. (Upgrading came later

) I told EVERYONE, was so happy about it...couldn't wait to spend my life with this man. That's the way it should be for you, too....just another reason why I'd hold out on an official, if simple, e-ring. If engaged, she should WANT to wear that ring ALL THE TIME!!!!

 

[perry]

Thanks all:

I appreciate the conterpoints. That is the nice thing about this board.

I will be patient.

By the way, she does not want me to spend the money on the plane ticket. I hope to figure things out shortly on the finanaces and the options. I may yet buy her that plane ticket depending on what I figure out. It will allow me to do some things that I do want to do. Besides, that way I could tromp her through 2 really nice diamond ring places.


Perry

 

[sxn675]

Perry, you didn''t really ask, but I wouldn''t take her ring shopping yet either. If she''s not ready, she''s not ready and ring shopping won''t make it better. I wish you the best!

 

[MissAva]

I agree with sxn, I would let the whole rest of your life thing go for the moment. She is making porgress, that guy moved out. Perhaps now is the time to be happy with that. Pressuring her will just get her back up and even though you might see a trip to a jewlery store in that light it is likely that she will. JMO.

 

[perry]

Actaully, the guy is still there. But I think she is really beginning to see the light and is starting to exercise some control over her own life.

Perry

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 7/6/2005 7:16:01 PM
Author: perry
Actaully, the guy is still there. But I think she is really beginning to see the light and is starting to exercise some control over her own life.

Perry

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

He''s still FREAKING THERE?????

I take what I said before back. No promise ring, no token of any kind. I''m sorry, but this girl NEEDS to get a spine. If she can''t stand up for herself enough to get rid of a freeloader who is also trying to control her life....then she is not in a marrying position. I just....cannot even believe....he is still THERE. AGH! There should be no talk of marriage until she can get the gumption to GET HIM OUT OF HER HOUSE!

 

[MissAva]

Date: 7/6/2005 7:16:01 PM
Author: perry
Actaully, the guy is still there. But I think she is really beginning to see the light and is starting to exercise some control over her own life.

Perry

Woa I am sorry I must be losing it. I could have sworn that you mentioned her getting him out. My mistake. Look I could be compleatly off base here. But you may be giving her as much stress as this man is. Although you dont mean to. You are coming across as somewhat controlling and it is possible that she fears having another man who wants to tell her what to do. She is clearly conflicted. If it was me I would tell her that you are there for her when she is ready, but that for now you cannot be a part of her life as she is lving with another man. I know that is a type of pressure as well but it is proably for the best.

 

[pyramid]

I did not reply on your other thread as it was your own personal business.

However, after reading this thread, I would add my voice to the other ladies. This girl is definitely not ready for marriage, she is even not ready for an exclusive relationship with you. I would wait until this guy has been told to leave and has left before considering it a serious relationship.

 

[sxn675]

Perry, again, you didn''t ask, but I wouldn''t even mention marriage or anything for awhile. The guy needs to leave and she needs to be on her own for a bit. I wish you the best!

 

[perry]

Thanks all for the comments.

I have never posted all the details regarding the other guy or even all the situation with "D", and I never will. I believe I have a real good understanding of the situation.

Sometimes you realize that but for the grace of god, that you could have been like that. I have a far deeper understanding of the other guy than many people. I once faced my fears on a subject, and admitted that perhaps other people were right. So I had to do something about it. I doubt I would be posting here today if I had not. Where would I be if I took the other path. Have you ever seen a living mirror...

The other thing that you realize at some point if you make a part of your life to help other people is that there are times you hang on for dear life, and other times you let go so that you yourself are not dragged down. Sometimes it is difficult to watch other people learn the lessons you have learned about when to hang on and when to let go. Sometimes it is difficult to figure out if you are helping or hurting with your attempt to help. Sometimes you have to hang on to someone else while they learn those lessons - or they can get pulled down.

In a perfect world, all of these issues would be resolved. Neither "D", the World, or I am perfect. Thus, you have to learn to cope with imperfect situations.

Sometimes the biggest mistake is wating for things to get better - because they never do left to themselves. Sometimes the best way to make things better is to become involved.

I would have married "D" 20 years ago if she would have had me then.

Bottom line. I would elope and marry "D" tommorrow if she would have me. Somethings are worth it, and I am confident that the catus prickers from the situation can be dealt with later. Just remember, she has to deal with my prikers as well - and I must give her room to do that.

Am I in for an education. I am sure. But just like Kelly on Dancing with the stars. The question is not what you can do now; but what you can learn to do by stepping outside of your comfort zone. Having never been married; I sure am stepping outside of my comfort zone. But everyone does who gets married.


Edited to add:

I will say that the situation with the other guy has changed in the right direction. While he is still there - the rules have changed.

One thing I realize, and if fact one of the reasons for getting married at all, is that I need help to move me along to who I want to be and where I want to go in life. "D" has similar feelings and we share the common major goals about where we want to get to.

As painfull as our past is, and even some of the current situation (I make mistakes too, and we all have things in our past), in the end it does not matter as long as we agree to journey forward to a common goal. It is not who we are now - it is what we can become that matters. "D" is clearly working on changes - as am I.

Nuff said (I hope).

Perry

 

[sxn675]

Perry I wish you the best

 

[platinumrock]

She didn''t want to marry you 20 years ago.......and she still doesn''t want to marry you now??? She''s not into you and she never was. But the excuses were really good though.

 

[lilyinct]

Perry-

I''ve been reading your threads, and just wanted to say how sorry I am. "D" sounds like a master manipulator, and although you love her and want to marry her, don''t you see all these signs?

I know I don''t know either of you personally, nor the depth of your relationship- but she seems like the kind of woman that loves teasing men, and loves having several men at her feet.

Take a good look at this situation, I don''t want you to get more hurt.

 

[perry]

platinumrock:

What an uncharatable thing to say. You don''t know and you don''t understand. Nor do I understand why you reopen a thread that has been replaced by a newer one on the status of the relationship.

Thinking back I first met "D" 25 years ago (almost to the day). I think it is totally true that she was interested in me back then - but was advised after a couple of years by all kinds of "important" people in her life that she had to marry within her specific religion. "D" has admitted that to be the case, and the reason she mooved on from me back in 80''s - and how much of a mistake it was compared to what happened (marrying not out of love for they guy - but to please others).

Since then we both moved different ways in life, and did not even hear from each other for about 20 years. Neither of us are the same person as we were in the 80''s. Both of us has had to deal with very major life situations. Those changed us, even though we have a certain "core" of each of us that has not changed much. Each of us also has various relationships from the 20 years in the middle that were not there before - and we must make allowances and be comfortable with those and the current status of those.

At this point, the changed people that we are match up less perfect than the people we were over 20 years ago. Nothing more than that, nothing less than that.

lilyinct:

You are also wrong. If anything; and "D" admits to this, she has allowed too many people to manipulate her life and control what she has done. She does not, and never has had, "several men at her feet." She has strived to have one central man in her life - but has allowed others to largly control who that is up to now. Can she change - can she decide to move a different direction. Can she accept a risk that she has never accepted before. Those are the basis of some of the real questions involved here.

As for the current status: I refer you to the later thread.

"I''m off - for now... Engagement not forseeable"

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/im-off-for-now-engagement-not-forseeable.33264/



That is not to say nothing will ever happen. But, for now it is best that we just be freinds. It is not enough to say you want something. You also have to decide that you are willing to change to get it. "D" is not the person she was 20 years ago and some of her goals in life have changed. I am not the person I was 20 years ago and some of my goals in life have changed. I am more comfortable with who she now is now than she is with who I am now (at the moment anyway).

In the end, you get more if you just open your hands and let people come to you - than you get by holding on and restricting them. I will always be here with a hand of support - even in things she wants that I do not.

Perry

 

[platinumrock]

Perry, I looked up all of the past and recent threads pertaining to your situation, to get a better understanding of your history and relationship with her. It saddens me that you have known this woman for 25 years, and you still can''t see that she''s not really into you. She''s free to make her own decisions. No one can control and manipulate her unless she allows them. You see her as a victim....of other people, of negative situations, someone who needs help. Honestly, not much has changed since 25 years ago. She had a chance to marry you back then, but married someone else. She has the chance to marry you now, but chose not to. Will you still be waiting around for her even after she marries someone else? The only difference is that you will be middle aged....and letting your precious life pass you by. Then again, maybe that''s what you want.

In the end, we all choose the life we lead, and you are choosing yours.

I wish you the best!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I have to agree with the others. I hate to say this but she should want to marry you AS MUCH as you want to marry her. To me telling my family and friends was awesome b/c I am going to marry my best friend and the man who is right to me. I know you obviously love her but it doesn''t sound like she is really for that commitment. Sorry best of luck.

 

[perry]

Who says I am waiting on her. If you actually read the "I''m off - for now... Engagement not forseeable" thread you will see that I have already stoped waiting on her because I understood that it was not going to happen now - and clearly communicated same.

However, I havn''t exactly run out looking for a replacment yet - principally because I am starting at least a 6 week period of very intense hours at work this week. No use actively looking when you know the plant outage is comming up - and few people would understand and survive that period at the beginning of a relationship.

Also, finding a replacement is not just a quick thing to do. I had my eyes open for a while when "D" got to the stage of potential mate (about 1 year ago).

However, for a short period of time: should she really change her mind - I would be available, and of course - should I not find a replacement then there is always the possibility in future years.

As far as the history: You folks still don''t get it. 20+ years ago her parents, religious leaders, and religious community very strongly advised against marriage with me (and she would be kicked out of the carrear she had chosen if she married me). I''m not sure that I would call that necessarily a free will decission.

As far as her recent chance. You are right in that she has clearly chosen not to. We both understand that. You are not adding anything new; although you do not know all about the situation and the reasons. Her job and carrear are tied to her religion, and cannot redily be transfered to anything outside of that religion. While she now has the flexibility to choose someone outside of her religion, she is still heavily influenced by it. I also cannot say that I have met anyone who lives their religion as much as she does.

However, I will still defend her name, and her situation. She is a good person; just not my match at this time. Who knows what the future holds for either of us. I also refuse to close the door to the future as well; but I am not counting on it either.

I am perhaps more understanding and forgiving of many things and lifestyles than others (her religious beliefs do not bother me). Perhaps because I have seen and experienced things that many within the US have not.

Perry

 

[lawmax]

Perry,

I''m sorry things did not turn out as you desired. This is so often a gift as I''m sure you know.

You do not need to rationalize, justify or defend your life to anyone! I admire that you live from your heart.

I wish you all that is for your highest good and the good of all.

Blessings,

lawmax

 

[platinumrock]

I apologize if I came across as insensitive, Perry. That was not my intent. You have a very optimistic and open-minded attitude. I admire that. I know it was very difficult for you to let go of someone who has been a huge part of your life. It takes a lot of courage for you to admit that things just were not working out the way you hoped. You did what was best for you.

I wish you nothing but the best, and I''m looking forward to the day when you share your proposal story and e-ring pics with us in the SMTR forum.

Your contribution and presence to PS is highly valued, so please don''t be a stranger!