A Womans Room

[Matata]

@Demon, I registered. I don't know if I'll ever post but some of the stuff is interesting to read.

 

[Ella]

Folks, we’re trying to allow you to have open discussions that are within the policies, but please do not break the policies. That includes directing people to other forums and bashing forum admin and decisions. If you have questions about a specific action, please feel free to reach out privately.

Prior to the election there were many time outs given, because people were blatantly breaking policies left and right. Normally we give a warning and explanation, sometimes multiple times before a time out is given, but during that time I was working double the hours I usually do just to moderate those political conversations and it just wasn’t possible.

Please understand that members were not acting like adults, and it was miserable to be on the receiving end of tantrums and name calling on a daily basis. PS members were regularly sending me abusive messages. If folks could have had civil discussions, like adults, we would not be here.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hangout was flooded - absolutely flooded - with political threads. It was drowning in them. This served a small core group of members who love to talk politics and turned everybody else off.

I thought it was awful when those discussions were allowed, and I can't imagine how much work and stress it must have been for the admins.

I experience PS as being like a party online, and we all know what happens at parties when people get political. Things tend to go downhill.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^Posted without reading Page 2!

 

[Jambalaya]

People are saying that PS is sleepy or quiet. I haven't noticed that at all.

Reading this thread further, it seems that there are other websites that are made for the type of discussions that were taking place here. I think if people want to argue about politics, get heated, call out other members, swear, and lash out with near-impunity, it's better to do that on sites which exist for that kind of "discussion" (read: vicious, bitter, and furious fighting.) This is, after all, a website that is fundamentally about jewelry, so by its nature there will be many posters who find this sort of content a turn-off since they didn't come here for politics in the first place.

I think saying "just ignore" is disingenuous. This place was 80% political threads along with all the arguing that that entails. "Just ignore" basically meant not coming on here, since the home page was crawling with political threads. It was horrible, and I was so relieved when it was all banned.

 

[Jambalaya]

ETA: I remember when one poster was really horrible in a political thread about another poster's former job. Said that they would never have talked to this member had they known what their job had been, and the gist was that this member wasn't even good enough to talk to online. It was a breathtaking example of pure snobbery. The job in question was not only completely respectable but served an absolutely essential role for society. The member on the receiving end was so hurt that they didn't come here for a long time.

My point is this: When that type of discussion is allowed, it emboldens some people to be horrible in other ways, too.

 

[Queenie60]

@Queenie60, I‘ve read your posts and I’m stunned you were given a time out.

I will never understand running to Ella because of something said on an online forum. if you don’t agree with something state your opinion if you want to participate or move on. I have a feeling that many of those who ran to Ella didn’t participate much in political threads, which is find sad. I miss reading everyone’s opinions on politics. It’s pretty dead here on PS now. Seems to me the more participation and eyes on a site the better for its vendors.

Thank you @Calliecake You’re always too kind. I appreciate your nice and non judgmental comments.

 

[Demon]

Folks, we’re trying to allow you to have open discussions that are within the policies, but please do not break the policies. That includes directing people to other forums and bashing forum admin and decisions. If you have questions about a specific action, please feel free to reach out privately.

Prior to the election there were many time outs given, because people were blatantly breaking policies left and right. Normally we give a warning and explanation, sometimes multiple times before a time out is given, but during that time I was working double the hours I usually do just to moderate those political conversations and it just wasn’t possible.

Please understand that members were not acting like adults, and it was miserable to be on the receiving end of tantrums and name calling on a daily basis. PS members were regularly sending me abusive messages. If folks could have had civil discussions, like adults, we would not be here.

"That includes directing people to other forums" I wasn't sure about that (and I wasn't coming on to do that - I was just replying to the questions), but all I could find in reference to other websites in the rules was regarding other jewelry forums, or at least that's the way it reads to me -

1. Do not post links or references to any other jewelry information or affiliate websites, forums, videos, blogs, or podcasts.

 

[Matata]

I think saying "just ignore" is disingenuous. This place was 80% political threads along with all the arguing that that entails. "Just ignore" basically meant not coming on here, since the home page was crawling with political threads. It was horrible, and I was so relieved when it was all banned.

Hangout was specifically created for non jewelry topics including politics when it was allowed. From the top of the first page of Hangout:

"PriceScope is home to wonderful members, and sometimes you just want to chat about something other than diamonds… not often, but it happens. When it does, it happens here."

Hangout is not the PS home page. Here's the home page https://www.pricescope.com/. It contains the drop down menus for the forums where people can choose what they wish to read. If you or anyone else chooses to not come here because the content of one area of a large forum that you choose to look at disturbs you then either continue to make yourself miserable or choose to be happy and not look at stuff that disturbs you.

If you think the "ignore" button is disingenuous, take it up with admin.

The political threads did dominate Hangout by a group of people who enjoyed the topic and mostly were willing to take the heat. You and all the other posters who were displeased by the amount of political threads had the option of posting other topics to compensate. Very few of you did but a lot of you complained. It seems that the complainers mostly wanted others to entertain them by posting new topics but had no interest in contributing to topics.

Every time the banning of politics crops up (and I hope in future admin immediately deletes these discussions), people who didn't like politics point out how unpleasant some of the discussions became yet they apparently read the discussions. What are we supposed to do about people who punish themselves by reading what they find unpleasant and then complain about it? Oh, yeah, the "ignore" button.

 

[kenny]

"That includes directing people to other forums" I wasn't sure about that (and I wasn't coming on to do that - I was just replying to the questions), but all I could find in reference to other websites in the rules was regarding other jewelry forums, or at least that's the way it reads to me -

1. Do not post links or references to any other jewelry information or affiliate websites, forums, videos, blogs, or podcasts.

Indeed.
I recall that PS policy.

I seemed okay to ask for the name of the politics forum precisely because it had nothing to do with jewelry, and wouldn't giving it out on PS reduce political discussions here?

I'm sure the Internet has lots of political forums, but endorsements from multiple PSers means this one must be pretty good.

 

[Jambalaya]

If you think the "ignore" button is disingenuous, take it up with admin.

Of course, a button can't be disingenuous. That wouldn't make any sense. I was referring to someone upthread who said people should have just ignored the political threads. That viewpoint has been shared quite a lot by some whenever this topic comes up. (In this case, Missy said it.) I think it's a disingenuous viewpoint because it conveniently ignores that pretty much all of Hangout had become political. You could ignore the threads the way you might ignore a flood of lava which is maybe not coming right at you, but is within two feet of you. You would get drawn in because you'd click on a thread when it sounded like an interesting topic to learn about, but then the arguing would begin, and then the nastiness.

That's what I was talking about, not the Ignore button itself.

There are other sites for the kind of political arguing that took over Hangout, and my opinion is that all kinds of people come to PS so it wasn't fair that Hangout was overtaken by one highly contentious topic. It would have been fine if Hangout wasn't completely flooded with that, but it was.

 

[Matata]

You could ignore the threads the way you might ignore a flood of lava which is maybe not coming right at you, but is within two feet of you. You would get drawn in because you'd click on a thread when it sounded like an interesting topic to learn about, but then the arguing would begin, and then the nastiness.

My recollection is that the political threads were by and large easy to identify. I'll reiterate that complainers tried to blame others for their unhappiness with Hangout rather than their own actions. Whatever you got dragged into was due to your own actions and no one else's. When things got nasty all you had to do what back out of the thread. There were people who complained that just seeing the titles of the threads upset them and they didn't want to have to scroll down a page to get to non political stuff. That is inane, entitled, immature.

There were several other illogical arguments made by the anti politic people. The logic that this is a jewelry board and people who come here don't want to see or aren't interested in other stuff doesn't fly. All you have to do is look at the thread titles in the non jewelry areas and the people who participate in them. Did you notice the correlation between the slow down in posting and the banning of political discussion? Is that the total reason for the slow down -- no, slowdowns here are cyclical -- but it played a not insignificant part. The argument that PS's reputation would be ruined or that people would be scared away was malarkey. It didn't happen with politics twice and it didn't happen during the vendor wars and other contentious periods of the early days. PS will evolve, thrive, or die based on how it adapts to changing diamond/jewelry consumer priorities.

 

[Jambalaya]

It just didn't seem fair to me that a place meant for everyone and all kinds of discussion was taken over by one contentious topic. I don't think it's reasonable for the place to become flooded with argumentative threads on one fairly unpleasant topic and to expect others to be OK with that.

ETA: I never complained to admin about the number of political threads. I did ignore a lot of it, and would still come here and read/contribute to the non-political threads. It was manageable but significantly less enjoyable.

It's true that the political threads were identifiable, but the fighting within them was not, until you were actually reading it.

So I was going along with the way things were. I'd accepted it. But when the discussions were banned, I breathed a sigh of relief.

 

[Austina]

I thought the whole point of a discussion was to hear all points of view. By telling people to ignore a topic is excluding them from the discussion they may have an interest in. I don’t know what the ratio of US members to others is, but just because you’re not from the US or a citizen, doesn’t mean you’re not interested in the politics of that country. We get a lot of world news here in the UK, so why wouldn’t I be interested in or ignore hearing and learning about the politics of other countries? As is often the case, the few spoil it for the many by not remaining respectful of other’s opinions.

I’m appalled that Admin were inundated with abuse from the forceful few who thought their opinions were the only valid ones. It’s no surprise hearing that, that the decision was made to ban the topic.

 

[kenny]

...I’m appalled that Admin were inundated with abuse from the forceful few who thought their opinions were the only valid ones. It’s no surprise hearing that, that the decision was made to ban the topic.

As the old saying goes, "That's why we can't have nice things."

 

[missy]

I think saying "just ignore" is disingenuous. This place was 80% political threads along with all the arguing that that entails. "Just ignore" basically meant not coming on here, since the home page was crawling with political threads.

Please speak for yourself @Jambalaya.

When I wrote that as adults we can ignore what is inflammatory (to us) that is exactly what I meant. No disingenuity at all. Said with complete sincerity.

And I did just that. I ignored posters who were baiting others by being over the top. I ignored posters (just a few) who took pleasure in aggravating others. Just for(IMO) the sake of annoying and getting a rise out of people.

With all due respect it is called being an adult. To be able to scroll on by anything that you cannot handle or do not wish to respond to.

I am sorry you feel ignoring certain posters/inflammatory comments (for the sake of being inflammatory and not an open discussion with give and take and respect) is "disingenuous".

Please take this in the spirit in which I intended it...not to upset you at all but just to say I am being completely sincere when I write to just ignore posters/posts you find upsetting or inflammatory.

Because some people were acting like children and behaving very badly, being abusive, and causing lots of extra work and stress for Ella- which are all unacceptable- our political discussion was banned.

It was a few who destroyed it for the rest of us.

As the old saying goes, "That's why we can't have nice things."

Exactly.

I’m appalled that Admin were inundated with abuse from the forceful few who thought their opinions were the only valid ones. It’s no surprise hearing that, that the decision was made to ban the topic.

I am appalled too. Unacceptable.

 

[Demon]

Hi,

I have not looked at it, but I will. Its so nice to see you all again. Demon, who was the vender who complained? You are not talking about karl are you?

Marianne--I do realize that reddit is different than Pricescope. My point was to show that Reddit allows their members the freedom to form actions on their platform without interference from Admin. They do require that members show proof when they say they bought a stock and made or lost X amount of dollars. They have been severely criticized, but do not then ask their members to change.

On Pricescope members are asked to provide content, teach others, over and over again without pay or recognition (except for Vegas), and purchase diamonds and jewelry from sponsors who pay for advertising. And when a members clicks on an advert for, say a dress, it turns up in their feed for days. Who gets paid for transmitting that advert? Members here are expected to do a lot. Is it too much to expect that Admin not complain about how hard the monitoring of the site is when they choose to monitor, particularly the political threads.

I think there is an imbalance here. People are tired of doing the work and getting little in return.

I have enjoyed pricesope for many years. I am not a prolific poster, but I also enjoy reading others posts. Once people find other homes it is less likely they will return.

Thanks for listening.

Annette

Hi. No it wasn't Karl. I really would prefer not to call the person out, because it was just an "I agree!" when redwood said she'd like to see politics gone. Nothing overt, but personally, I didn't like a rep of a vendor/sponsor here commenting on it. Maybe that's just me?

 

[Demon]

Indeed.
I recall that PS policy.

I seemed okay to ask for the name of the politics forum precisely because it had nothing to do with jewelry, and wouldn't giving it out on PS reduce political discussions here?

I'm sure the Internet has lots of political forums, but endorsements from multiple PSers means this one must be pretty good.

Yep, that's the only reason I posted the name - I could find nothing against doing so, and its not a forum that would compete with this one in any way. I haven't seen a single thread about diamonds or jewelry, lol.

Not everyone loves that forum - like any public forum there's good and there's bad. I enjoy it and AGBF and Calliecake seem to.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Kenny-- I cannot see that I broke any rule in my post. Ella had already publicly stated that monitoring was very difficult.(no assumptions). Recognition issues have also been openly discussed in threads by Ella.

Herein lies one problem. We(the politicos) asked for two different possible solutions. The first, the topic be put in Around the World, which is where it had been previously. The second, to be a private chat by subscription, which could not be viewed by others. Both were turned down.

This morning when I woke up, I thought I was a bit harsh in my last post. I do like to think about solutions normally, and I sort of gave up yesterday. But today is another day. So, we ought to take a look at what has happened to the website in general. Very low traffic. I think a part of the reason is that here is nothing proprietary about the information contained on diamonds and jewelry. Others have caught up and present the same info, Men don't like to shop, in and out for them, unless there is something to keep them. The younger man is who you want. Maybe a section of sportscars or the art of motorcycle maintenance, or fashionable ties would keep them here for a while. For women lets do wedding gowns, bridesmaid dresses, flowers. I do know there are already sections for these kinds of things, but we need new ideas to get people to come nd stay awhile.

I think its a mistake to not have space for political discussion. I love Matatas suggestion. We will call it the Steam-room. Anyone who berates Ella or curses at her ought to e banned. Anyone who lies should be called out. One cannot always be polite.

I've had my say. Perhaps a new thread on suggestion for increasing traffic. Please keep it on hangout. I still want political discussions.

Thanks Again.

Annette

 

[Matata]

Perhaps a new thread on suggestion for increasing traffic

I've wondered how the changes in younger gens tastes will affect PS. I've read younger gens aren't as interested in bling and that those who are tend to lean toward man-made stones, smaller stones, and more unique styles. Seems that would have some sort of impact here as the older gens who want more-bigger-better fade into history.

It's not incumbent on members, imo, to figure out how to increase traffic here. Imo it's up to the owners to figure out what the coming gens will want, attract vendors who offer that, and figure out how to balance vendor needs as well as evolving consumer interests. The owner's can hire people to do that if they don't know how.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Again.

I'm laughing to myself. As i had my PS thinking cap on, my first thought was to tell Kenny he was acting like the "Hall Monitor" As "stream of consciousness" rolled over me, I recalled where the Hall Monitor phrase came from.

At my age I get and send e-mails looking for info on people I knew when I was very young. I received an e-mail looking for a friend of mine from grammar school, from a fellow from Grammar school. We swapped stories, and he told me this girl was the Hall Monitor in 6th grade, and she wouldn't let him pass to where he wanted to go. He said he was so hurt by this that for awhile h didn't like her anymore.. However when they went to the same collage, he put it "he escorted her to school on the train". He definitely now liked her. I knew she became a teacher but nothing else.

In 6th and 7th grade this girl, and myself used to go to the basketball courts after school to shoot hoops with the boys, John,(above) was usually there. He told me he had a crush me but he decided I was too sophisticated for him. He was a cute redheaded boy who was quiet.

As we emailed back and forth I learned he was a Political Science Professor and had published a book on Eisenhower. Our parents, in Brooklyn were all Republicans in the 50's. Most of us turned out democrats. He admitted he was obsessed with watching the TV on the Trump news. He could not stop himself.

The friend who had given John my e-mail is also a professor(both retired). He also likes to discuss politics. So, I'm thinking if we get an open discussion I could invite both of them to he Steam Room. Then I thought again.

I've read their comments on facebook. They both do not go gently into the night. They would be banned the first day. But, they would survive on a men's board. We are in the Womens Room.

This post all because of "The Hall Monitor" Pease no offence intended to anyone. I like playing with the boys

Annette

 

[AGBF]

I have been following this thread with interest. I am glad it has been allowed. Ella should never have been treated with disrespect. I will follow the rules of this forum, whatever they turn out to be. I am grateful to Andrey for sponsoring it.

 

[kenny]

Hi,

Kenny-- I cannot see that I broke any rule in my post. ...

Yes.
It's clear you can't.

 

[LLJsmom]

It's interesting that politics were allowed in years past. That might have been before my time, as my PS age is about 9 years. The ignore button is useful, and I tend to forget about it. And yes, for me, it's easy for me to skip threads I don't want to read/discuss. But maybe we should also consider the current cancel culture of the day. I have conflicting feelings about it. Initially it was very disturbing for me, but I am seeing the pros and cons. I have noticed that media/companies/businesses/people/celebrities/politicians are in some ways affected by it. And to be on the safe side, it seems (per social media), most people/entities are taking the conservative approach and not fighting it, and just going along. There are serious consequences for those who don't acquiesce. People lose their jobs, face social condemnation and/or are ostracized, companies lose business, etc. Maybe banning political discussions is another symptom of the current social and political culture of the day.
And for the record I grew up in the period where people were expected to grow a tough skin, or another viewpoint of that is people were expected to "suck it up". Like I said, pros and cons.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Kenny, I had already acknowledged in an above post that my post of the other night was too harsh. I said normally i look for solutions and realize I was far too critical. So, in my mind I cleaned up my side of the street.

So, the thread I created was against the rules. Why do you think Matata tells me I am brave, and I reply that I knew I wouldn't be shot, or probably even banned.. Why do you think Admin said they would let the thread carry on. You, kenny have participated in a rules breaking thread. Could you not see that? Did you not see that my point was the loss of these women, and low traffic, and that point was not about including or excluding Kenny. We know you are a man and participate here. Should I have put A Womans Room and Kennys Room? Kenny, I will monitor myself thank you.

Matata, Yes, I know we do not have to find solutions. But, what I am saying now is true for me. I want my brain to keep functioning at a decent level. I like to think about problems and see if I can come up with something. Its a brain exercise for me and its fun. I'm really glad I don't really have to find the answer, but I like to think about it.

The reality is, this place has given me much enjoyment. I want it to be a success.

Anette

 

[OboeGal]

Please speak for yourself @Jambalaya.

When I wrote that as adults we can ignore what is inflammatory (to us) that is exactly what I meant. No disingenuity at all. Said with complete sincerity.

And I did just that. I ignored posters who were baiting others by being over the top. I ignored posters (just a few) who took pleasure in aggravating others. Just for(IMO) the sake of annoying and getting a rise out of people.

With all due respect it is called being an adult. To be able to scroll on by anything that you cannot handle or do not wish to respond to.

I am sorry you feel ignoring certain posters/inflammatory comments (for the sake of being inflammatory and not an open discussion with give and take and respect) is "disingenuous".

Please take this in the spirit in which I intended it...not to upset you at all but just to say I am being completely sincere when I write to just ignore posters/posts you find upsetting or inflammatory.

Because some people were acting like children and behaving very badly, being abusive, and causing lots of extra work and stress for Ella- which are all unacceptable- our political discussion was banned.

It was a few who destroyed it for the rest of us.



Exactly.


I am appalled too. Unacceptable.

Exactly this.

Anyone who thinks that they shouldn't have to learn the skill of ignoring, moving past, and coping with things on the internet will soon be left in the dust by civilization. We MUST learn to deal with the internet, and everything found there, or democracy and the thin veneer of society will fall. The main reason democracy is under threat in many places in the world currently is because we as humans have not yet learned the skills to allow us to deal with the internet and social media, and all the ways that commercial entities and foreign actors use those against the greater good for their own personal or corporate gain. We fall right into their hands, over and over, reacting with our most primal impulses, instead of learning how to question what we see, how to use critical thinking skills, and how to respond to the emotions triggered within us in healthy ways. Just because this forum or some other specific forums skirt the issue by banning any contentious topic doesn't mean that we won't continue to encounter this stuff in the other 99% of the internet. We need to learn these skills somewhere.

Really - it's not hyperbole to say that it's become critical for the survival of democracies - and perhaps our species, looking at how COVID has played out - to learn how to deal with the internet in a sane and healthy way, just like all the other critical and basic things we learn in order to live in society. It's incumbent on each and every one of us to do that work.

 

[kenny]

Great post, OboeGal!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi, Obie

It is so nice to see you. I really do miss you all.

Annette

 

[OboeGal]

Hi, Obie

It is so nice to see you. I really do miss you all.

Annette

It's lovely to see you, too, Annette!

Thank you, @kenny.

 

[redwood66]

Political discussions are much more enjoyable for me when there is parity amongst the opposing sides. I've actually been asked why do I even bother coming here because my opinions are not in the majority for this site politically. What kind of question is that if you truly want to have a genuine discussion? I've been gone because life gets in the way and too many things to do. @Jambalaya I'm not sure if you meant me in your comment about the person denigrating another member's job but if you did, I didn't leave, I was put on time out for responding to that nastiness when I should have just considered the source and kept my mouth shut. Now days I am pretty laid back with my attitude and discuss politics elsewhere.

It does seem pretty quiet here though. Maybe people are busy with life and getting back to normal.