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A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity (VS2

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Hi,

I'm looking at this particular diamond and I've already placed an ordered for it. But after reviewing the GIA report a few times, I'm having second thoughts about the clarity of the diamond. What do you guys think of the diagram showing all those inclusions?

What do you guys think about the girdle? and what do you guys think of this diamond in general?

Your opinion is very much appreciated!
Thanks in advance.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1423581.asp

Shape: Princess
Carat weight: 1.38
Cut: Ideal
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 73.4%
Table: 71.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.24*6.11*4.49
Ratio: 1.02

F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-1.38-Carat-Princess-Diamond.JPG
 

footshooter5

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
30
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

I can't speak by way of the girdle, but the best thing to do is to call James Allen, and ask one of their gemologists to look at the stone in person, and ask them if it's eye clean from various distances. Eye clean to one person, isn't necessarily eye clean to another, so ask them to look at it from 12", 8" and even 6". Personally, if anyone is looking at your diamond from closer than 6", and they aren't your SO...they're a bit too close for comfort :)
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

I agree to ask their gemologists, but rest assured that GIA-graded VS2 inclusions are rarely if ever a structural threat. They're also invisible to the naked eye for about 98% of people. If you're especially concerned, ask them to look at the stone from all sides including the pavilion. Sometimes a stone that's considered eye-clean from the face-up view will have visible inclusions from the side view.

You didn't ask about cut, but the cut on that stone looks pretty nice from the picture; be sure to ask for an ASET image while you're asking about the clarity.
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Thank you all for your input. I will take your suggestions and ask a gemologist to take a look at the diamond for me.
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Anyone else have any opinion on the inclusion in this diamond?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

we really can't tell anything about the visibility of inclusions from the grading report...JA should be able to advise.

ETA that diamond says not available...did you purchase it?
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Yes, I purchased it and now I'm having second thoughts about the report :(

I spoke to JA and they told me the diamond is fantastic and eye clean but I'm still not very convinced...
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

B1gBang said:
Yes, I purchased it and now I'm having second thoughts about the report :(

I spoke to JA and they told me the diamond is fantastic and eye clean but I'm still not very convinced...
perhaps get it shipped to you before you get it set, and you can take it to an independent appraiser?
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,567
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

B1gBang|1319467238|3046562 said:
Yes, I purchased it and now I'm having second thoughts about the report :(

I spoke to JA and they told me the diamond is fantastic and eye clean but I'm still not very convinced...
I have a VS2 stone and it's nearly impossible for me to locate the inclusions with my 30x loupe. I can just barely see the inclusions using the James Allen virtual loupe on the stone you've purchased. Keep in mind, the image is much, MUCH larger than your actual diamond will be. The inclusions are primarily clouds, so I can't imagine you'd be able to spot them very easily in person without some kind of magnification. If in doubt, just have them ship the stone to you loose and take a look at it and bring to an appraiser before getting it set.
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Has the diamond already been shipped to you, or does JA still have it?
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

@rubybeth - thank you for your input and for sharing your experience. Having the diamond shipped to me and have it appraised would be ideal but I'm from Canada, I think it would be a hassle to arrange for the shipping back and forth.

@jstarfireb - JA still has the diamond. And by the way, I did not get a chance to thank you for giving me such valuable information on my other topic!

Anyways, I really appreciate your input.

I've made up my mind and went with another diamond JA has in their inventory.

It is the below:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1402350.asp
Shape: Princess
Carat weight: 1.57
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VVS2
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 72.8%
Table: 71.0%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.67*6.40*4.66
Ratio: 1.04

How did I do guys?
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Hold the phone! I think the first one looks a lot better in terms of cut. See those two triangular dark areas on the left and right underneath the table? That's leakage. I like your first choice a lot better. Just have the gemologist at JA examine it again for eye-cleanness if you're still not sure. IMO it's not worth sacrificing cut to get a VVS stone when VS2 is almost certainly going to be eye-clean.

And you're welcome! For what it's worth, I went back and looked at your other thread, and the WF diamond clearly appears to have the best cut quality. But your original choice from JA is still better cut than this latest one.
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Sorry for the late reply! I've been busy with work lately...

Unfortunately it is too late! The ring is on it's way with Fedex! =(

Is the difference between the two diamonds worth exchanging for? I wasn't aware the cut could differ by much even when both were categorized as "ideal".
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

B1gBang|1319687988|3048496 said:
Sorry for the late reply! I've been busy with work lately...

Unfortunately it is too late! The ring is on it's way with Fedex! =(

Is the difference between the two diamonds worth exchanging for? I wasn't aware the cut could differ by much even when both were categorized as "ideal".
did you get an ASET of the one you purchased? 'ideal' is a classification based on limited data and does not reflect AGS ideal light performance. Even JA encourages you to consider all of their cut labels when shopping for fancies

When it comes to fancy shapes though, (like princess, oval, emerald etc.) there are very few stones that fit into our Ideal category. This is because only a small number of fancy shapes will have both a polish and symmetry rating of Very Good , Excellent or Ideal . For this reason you should definitely include all of the cut grades in your search for any shape other than a round.
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

slg47|1319688784|3048505 said:
B1gBang|1319687988|3048496 said:
Sorry for the late reply! I've been busy with work lately...

Unfortunately it is too late! The ring is on it's way with Fedex! =(

Is the difference between the two diamonds worth exchanging for? I wasn't aware the cut could differ by much even when both were categorized as "ideal".
did you get an ASET of the one you purchased? 'ideal' is a classification based on limited data and does not reflect AGS ideal light performance. Even JA encourages you to consider all of their cut labels when shopping for fancies

When it comes to fancy shapes though, (like princess, oval, emerald etc.) there are very few stones that fit into our Ideal category. This is because only a small number of fancy shapes will have both a polish and symmetry rating of Very Good , Excellent or Ideal . For this reason you should definitely include all of the cut grades in your search for any shape other than a round.
No, I did not ask for an ASET of the diamond. Is there a way to test it myself when the diamond is at my possession?

Thanks!
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

B1gBang|1319687988|3048496 said:
Sorry for the late reply! I've been busy with work lately...

Unfortunately it is too late! The ring is on it's way with Fedex! =(

Is the difference between the two diamonds worth exchanging for? I wasn't aware the cut could differ by much even when both were categorized as "ideal".
I'd say absolutely. There's clearly visible leakage in this one, whereas the first one looks much better cut. I can tell that right away from the pictures without even asking for an ASET. If I were you, I'd keep the first one on hold, send this one back pretty much as soon as you get it, and then buy the first one. You're only out the shipping, right? Don't let that keep you from getting a prettier diamond!

Like SLG said, a vendor's label of cut as ideal is often quite misleading for fancy shapes. It's solely based on depth and table measurements in most cases, not light performance. Numbers don't tell nearly as much of the story for princesses compared to rounds. Depth and table numbers that were previously considered not to be ideal often exist in AGS-graded ideal cut stones. The only grade of ideal you should trust for a princess is one given by AGS labs.
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

jstarfireb|1319693904|3048545 said:
B1gBang|1319687988|3048496 said:
Sorry for the late reply! I've been busy with work lately...

Unfortunately it is too late! The ring is on it's way with Fedex! =(

Is the difference between the two diamonds worth exchanging for? I wasn't aware the cut could differ by much even when both were categorized as "ideal".
I'd say absolutely. There's clearly visible leakage in this one, whereas the first one looks much better cut. I can tell that right away from the pictures without even asking for an ASET. If I were you, I'd keep the first one on hold, send this one back pretty much as soon as you get it, and then buy the first one. You're only out the shipping, right? Don't let that keep you from getting a prettier diamond!

Like SLG said, a vendor's label of cut as ideal is often quite misleading for fancy shapes. It's solely based on depth and table measurements in most cases, not light performance. Numbers don't tell nearly as much of the story for princesses compared to rounds. Depth and table numbers that were previously considered not to be ideal often exist in AGS-graded ideal cut stones. The only grade of ideal you should trust for a princess is one given by AGS labs.
Thank you jstarfireb for your honest suggestion.

I spoke to one of JA's customer rep. and they told me that "you really can not see light leakage from our photos" and told me that the dark spots may be shadowing, not leakage and that their photos are only for shape and inclusions. Do you think they're a good source of information?

The ring is arriving tomorrow, is there any way I can test for leakage myself?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

you could take it to a jared's and compare it to their peerless (AGS0) stones
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

slg47|1319763890|3049058 said:
you could take it to a jared's and compare it to their peerless (AGS0) stones
Yup, but even that doesn't tell the full story, because you'd only be seeing them under one kind of lighting. Jewelry store lighting is tricky. It actually makes my AGS0 princess look kinda crummy. I personally prefer more objective measures like the ASET, but you'd have to buy an ASET scope and wait for it to be shipped to you...and then what do you do with it when you're finished choosing the diamond? So that's not practical either. The best way for you to compare the diamonds would have been for JA to have their gemologist look at both side by side and shoot ASET photos, but that ship has sailed unless you decide to send this one back.

I'm not sure what to think about what the CS rep said. I disagree, because I think it really is possible to see leakage from photos in many cases. That may not be the intention of their photos, but I use their photos to weed out the ones I don't like and suggest ones that are more promising. At any rate, there's substantial optical asymmetry, whether it's leakage or something else (obstruction as they mention?), and that isn't visually appealing to me.

Now the diamond could arrive on your doorstep, and you might absolutely love it. In that case, ignore the annoying diamond snob that is jstarfireb and just enjoy it!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

you could also put it on a piece of colored paper and look if you can see color throuhg the diamond...or take it to an appraiser who uses ASET
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,275
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

While folks here tend to place emphasis on cut (and rightly so), have you researched the possible effects of internal and surface graining?
 

B1gBang

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
10
Re: A princess cut GIA, looking for opinions on the clarity

Sorry I have been MIA for the past few days.

I just wanted to let you guys know that my girlfriend (now fiancee) loves the ring! I guess it's a keeper =)

Thank you all for your input and help, I really appreciate your expertise and suggestions!
 
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