A good orange sapphire

[kenny]

I have a friend who is too shy to post.
He wants to buy a good orange sapphire.

I'm more of an FCD guy so don't pay close attention to who are the good vendors for sapphire, though I know to avoid Natural Sapphire Company.

Can you recommend a few vendors?
Thanx.

Oh and would you recommend contacting X vendor, and ask her/him to look for a sapphire, or is it best to just select one listed.
IOW are orange sapphires rare?
What are the desirable (as in market-determined and therefore more expensive) secondary hue-modifiers in an orange sapphire? More yellow? More red? I assume less brown.
I ask because with FCDs PURE orange is astronomically rare and expensive; is that the case with sapphire?

Also would you recommend only considering sapphires with a report, or are sapphires less risky than FCDs when it comes to the report establishing the value.
Let me put it another way, I'd NEVER consider an FCD over $1000 without a GIA report; do you feel the same way for orange sapphire?
If so is GIA as respectable as AGL for sapphires?

Which websites would you go to first?

 

[chrono]

A pure orange untreated sapphire of excellent colouration is rare and expensive. Most orangish sapphires (generally an unattractive brownish orange colour) have been heavily treated to become padparadscha sapphires which sell for a nice sum when undisclosed. This is one stone where I would have the vendor do the legwork for me and something I would never buy without a reputable lab report. GIA or AGL are both good options. If he has the funds, it is FAR easier to find a beautiful yellow FCD.

 

[kenny]

Thanks Chrono.

My friend says he wants a bright orange 2ct. Round, Oval or Pear.

He asks, what should the budget be if quality of color most important.

 

[kenny]

It musts be fully natural in material and color origin, no treatments per AGL or GIA report.

So, which vendors should he contact?

 

[kenny]

Nobody?

 

[velouriaL]

Does your friend care about BE treatment? If not, I would suggest he go for that. Or a spessartite garnet. Even an orange spinel would be easier to come by.

Otherwise, I know Dana at Mastercut has this "golden peach" gem that looks like it could be very cool looking. Not a perfect "orange" by any means, but it's big and I like it:
http://mastercutgems.com/preview.php?cat=294&id=6241

There's also this oval that seems to come from the same parcel:
http://mastercutgems.com/preview.php?cat=294&id=6243

He also has this smaller, brighter orange round that, if untreated, is probably quite nice:
http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=6816

Here are some others. As you can see, slim pickings and expensive:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Unique/U4049/Oval/stoneid=U4049
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Unique/U2820/Cushion/stoneid=U2820
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Unique/U4027/Oval/stoneid=U4027
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Unique/U2954/Cushion/stoneid=U2954

You might want to look at simplysapphires, too.

 

[erinl]

This list is from the pinned list of vendors that people have had good luck with--it specifies some who deal in sapphires:

Barry of Artistic Colored Gems - www.acstones.com
Marc Sarosi - www.africagems.com
Arnold & Rung of AJS Gems - www.ajsgem.com
www.andrewsarosi.com
Rick Martin of Art Cut Gems - www.artcutgems.com
Doug Menadue Bespoke Gems www.bespoke-gems.com
www.bkkgemstones.com (mainly Sapphires but some other colored gemstones and jewelry)
Bob Kast - www.bobkast.com
Steve Green (fine Briolettes) www.briolettes.com
Lloyd A. Forrester of Clear Cut Gems - http://www.clearcutgems.com
Richard Homer of Concave Cut - www.concavegems.com
Dan Stair of Custom Gemstones - www.customgemstones.com
David of Diamonds by Lauren - www.diamondsbylauren.com (mainly fancy coloured diamonds but also coloured gemstones)
www.djraregems.com
Dutton's Diamonds (and colored gems) http://www.diamondexpert.com/
Leibish - www.fancydiamonds.net (specializes in fancy colour diamonds)
Gary Braun of Fine Water Gems - www.finewatergems.com
Jerry of Gem Art - www.gemartservices.com
www.gemcal.com
Andrew Gulij of Gemfix - www.gemfix.com
John of GemRite - www.gemrite.com
Constantin Wild - www.gemstone.de
Lisa Elser - www.lisaelser.com
Gem Line - www.litnon.com
Dana of Master Cut Gems - www.mastercutgems.com
David Wein of Multicolour Gems - www.multicolour.com
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/
www.NaturalUnheatedRuby.com (exactly that!)
Ulli of Osiris Gems - www.osirisgems.com
Pala - www.palagems.com
Paraiba International www.paraibainternational.com
Robert Genis http://www.preciousgemstones.com/
Gene Flanigan of Precision Gems - www.precisiongem.com
Jaimeen Shah - www.primagemsusa.com
David Dawson & Cathy Dolson http://rough2refinedgemstones.com/
Jason Brim of Selectgem www.selectgem.com
Josh at www.serenity-diamonds.com (specialises in Emeralds but also has other gemstones)
John - www.simplysapphires.com
Roger Dery of Spectral Gems - www.spectralgems.net
Steve Perry www.steveperrygems.com
Eric of Swala Gems (specializes in Mahenge spinels, tsavorites and other African Gems) www.swalagemtraders.com
Brad Pailey of The Gem Trader - www.thegemtrader.com (specializes in rare and unusual stones)
www.topgem.co.uk (UK gemstone dealer specialising in unheated sapphires and rubies)
Peter Torraca www.torraca.net
Bruce Bridges Tsavorite USA Inc. www.tsavorite.com
Jeff White of White's Gems - www.whitesgems.com
Edward Bristol of Wild Fish Gems - www.WildFishGems.com (Unheated Sapphires and other untreated gemstones)

 

[erinl]

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_yellow_orange.html#thumb

He might have some other stones to look at. Maybe someone else can chime in, I am no sapphire expert, I have never bought one...

 

[kenny]

Thank you.
My friend has a link to this thread so he will email me responses and I'll post them.

I don't mind being a telegraph for this guy.
He's a gem.

 

[erinl]

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/yellow-sapphire/yellow-sapphire-5.22-carats.html

Kind of orange? I would get a cert making sure it isn't diffused though...

 

[pregcurious]

Jim Rentfrow has 1 orange cushion sapphire, but the cut is wonky and it has been heated according to an AGL report. The color distribution is also not great as it's darker on the ends, and yellower on the wider edges. (Go to the last page of his sapphire selection http://flawlessfacets.com/products-page/... It is 3.43 cts.) You could contact him to ask if he can source one for you, or if he can suggest someone.

I think it's going to be difficult to find something. If your friend is open to Mexican fire opal, it comes in very nice oranges. Here's my favorite spess color:

 

[VapidLapid]

Tall order. Everytime I see an orange sapphire I think Be treated.
It will be hard to find and costly

Nomads
http://gemsbynomads.com/

Pala if he has a jeweler to work through

Wildfish

rwwise

certainly contact the big 5 lapidaries to see if they have anything or can get anything

flanigan
dery
white
braun
torraca
david dawson

 

[ChrisA222]

Kenny,

There are three Orange Sapphires available at www.moregems.com.. They state no BE diffusion, but you'd have to ask the vendor about certifications.

Good luck!

 

[minousbijoux]

In the past, I've seen them at All that Glitters, atggems.com. I can't vouch for this vendor, having not bought from them. I find them for the most part pricier than our other usual suspect vendors. I would definitely ask for hand shots as well, as it seems that their photos definitely show the best side of the gem. They seem pretty honest as to what on their sight is beryllium diffused and what has not been (though I agree with others and would insist that your friend make sure the vendor would be willing to make sale contingent on a GIA or AGL lab report). I think you are aware that your friend has picked a color of sapphire that is notorious for be treatment. I love that color too.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

If your friend isn't afraid to spend, it might not be a bad idea to include Pads in his search, since some of them are only very slightly pink, and they are more likely to be accompanied with a report indicating unheated, heat only etc. Oranges are notoriously Be treated, so I would only buy one with a report, personally.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I would also suggest contacting Dana, since his Sri Lankan friend apparently has some oranges.

http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=6816

Since Oranges are fancy, I will approximate the price using yellow sapphire prices (which I know much more about). For a 2 carat orange, I would guess around 900-1,200/ct., more or less depending on the treatment level (and if you can find a bargain). The price will of course vary wildly as the prices for fancies is even LESS standardized than blue sapphires (which are hardly standardized themselves).

Check out the Pads on djrare for some examples of very orange pads.

http://www.djraregems.com/finegems.html

 

[chrono]

Kenny,
This stone is going to be a huge challenge to find. Although none of these vendors have an orange sapphire currently advertised, it is worth inquiring.

Most have modifiers but some appear to be well saturated. All are untreated.
http://www.wildfishgems.com/orange_sapphire

These are heated but as you can see from the first oval listed, even with a slight yellow modifier and heated, when well saturated, a sub carat orange sapphire is already at $2500/ct. My guess is that your friend is looking at pricing that might be up into the $5000/ct range and upwards for what he is looking for.
http://www.awesomegems.com/sapphire-orange-priceguide.html

This vendor is on the pricey side too but worth inquiring with. He has more stones that are not listed.
http://www.atggems.com/Photos_Sapphire1.htm

Nothing stands out but he might be able to find you something.
http://www.africagems.com/orange-sapphire.html

Only one unheated sapphire at Pala and the description is not promising.
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemresults&actionType=advanced&Gem_Type=Sapphire&greater_less=&Total_Weight=&weight_low=&weight_high=&Shape_Cut=&length=&width=&Gem_Variety=Orange&No_of_Pieces=&inventory_number=&submit=Find+All+Matches

 

[kenny]

Thank you all for the help.
My friend and I are very grateful for your expertise.
I had no idea orange was a difficult color to find in sapphire too, as with diamond.

 

[velouriaL]

If I were your friend, and I wanted a beautiful bright orange gem, I would probably go for a spessartite garnet. That's really where the Fanta is.

 

[pregcurious]

If I were your friend, and I wanted a beautiful bright orange gem, I would probably go for a spessartite garnet. That's really where the Fanta is.

I agree, but it's very difficult to find spess's in Fanta anymore, and garnets are much less durable/hard than sapphires.

 

[LD]

Kenny I haven't read your whole thread so this has probably already been said but .............

1. A pure fanta orange in a sapphire is exceptionally rare.
2. Even finding a nice orange (that isn't too yellow or brown) is a severe challenge!
3. The majority of juicy looking sapphires on the market have been BE diffused (stable treatment BUT makes it less valuable).
4. If you find one in a colour you like then you may have to consider heated rather than unheated. I'm quite a purist and would always prefer unheated wherever possible BUT in reality, for a stone with this coloiur heated is going to be easier to find!

AJS have a few but they do have a modifier and are typically heated. Here: http://www.ajsgem.com/padparadscha-orange-gemstone-sapphire-2046340415.html

 

[erinl]

Movie Zombie posted this vendor under a different thread. They have orange sapphires listed:

http://philipzahm.com/gemstones.html

 

[kenny]

Thanks again, all.

 

[ChrisA222]

Kenny, Ld, or anyone else...

What did you guys think of the Orange Sapphires that I linked to? the ones from www.moregems.com?? They looked like Spessartite Garnets to me. The color really appeals to me, as I like orange with some red, but these stones are really affordable for being non-diffused. So the question is....

why are they so cheap?

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Re: A good orange sapphire
by ChrisA222 » 16 Mar 2013 13:10
Kenny, Ld, or anyone else...

What did you guys think of the Orange Sapphires that I linked to? the ones from www.moregems.com??? They looked like Spessartite Garnets to me. The color really appeals to me, as I like orange with some red, but these stones are really affordable for being non-diffused. So the question is....

why are they so cheap?

I think the moregems oranges are just okay. The color on a couple is somewhat uneven between yellow and orange. The 1.4 ct has the nicest color of the lot, but its not as "open" of a gem as I think many people like. I think its still priced nicely considering this fault and the SI clarity. Part of the issue is orange sapphires are not an oft-sought fancy sapphire, and so prices vary wildly between vendors who think they are a prized rarity, and those who think they are simply inferior blues or pinks.

But what I really wanted to add is that one thing this thread has taught/reminded me of is that heated oranges are really not very rare or even expensive among sapphires at all. You should expect to pay the kind of the prices I mentioned for an exceptional heated one, but its really not a Herculean task to find one. Unheated vivid oranges, on the other hand, seem about as common as a non-European pope! I would think your better off looking for a very orange, dubious pad, which will unfortunately seriously drive-up the price.

 

[Fly Girl]

The most beautiful orange sapphire I have ever seen was on Richard Homer's hand. Yes, pure orange sapphire is so wonderful and so special, that this famous cutter who could wear pretty much any stone he wanted, wears an orange sapphire ring.

Good luck in your hunt.

 

[pregcurious]

Kenny, Ld, or anyone else...

What did you guys think of the Orange Sapphires that I linked to? the ones from www.moregems.com?????? They looked like Spessartite Garnets to me. The color really appeals to me, as I like orange with some red, but these stones are really affordable for being non-diffused. So the question is....

why are they so cheap?

Both orange sapphires have pretty obvious bow ties. That alone kills them for me. The color is also not great--too much yellow. None of them are vivid, and the coloration looks uneven in the photos.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, Ld, or anyone else...

What did you guys think of the Orange Sapphires that I linked to? the ones from www.moregems.com???

Sorry, this thread is for a friend.

And TIA for anyone who posts after my post.

 

[minousbijoux]

Kenny, Ld, or anyone else...

What did you guys think of the Orange Sapphires that I linked to? the ones from www.moregems.com???? They looked like Spessartite Garnets to me. The color really appeals to me, as I like orange with some red, but these stones are really affordable for being non-diffused. So the question is....

why are they so cheap?

Its a good question to ask because on the face of it, they don't look bad. But there are some limiting factors which quickly add up: 1) None are well cut or large, with the unheated one having an off center culet and a fair amount of extinction; 2) they have brownish tint and would not be considered close to vivid (in fact, I would imagine they would be even less orange in hand); 3) the unheated one is listed as SI and would likely have eye visible and possibly distracting inclusions; 4) the unheated one is deep and therefore faces up small. Not to be a pessimist, but I honestly think they would be even less saturated in hand, as that is the more common problem encountered in buying online (certainly more common than having them be more saturated in hand, lol).

ETA: and no lab reports!

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I think all the moregems oranges are listed as heated.

I am as wary as minou--even at sub $ 500, I personally would ask for a memo or at least a guarantee that after I sent the stone to AGL, if anything other than heat was found, back it goes.