A couple of larger Namibian demantoids

[T L]

I just wanted to post these two stones, both Namibian.

The octagon is 3.25 carats and precision cut. There is a veil, as you can see when the stone is face down, but otherwise very clean and crystal. The oval is loupe clean. It is 1.7 carats and although it has a small window, I think it was well worth the price I paid as inclusion free demantoids of this size are almost non existent these days. Despite the love of horsetails (which aren't in Namibians anyways), I don't care for heavily included demantoids. Both are very slightly bluish green. The oval is in a plastic sheath type of box, hence the glare in there. I'm too terrified to take it out as it's super slippery unlike the octagon. In the upper left, you can see my other demantoid ring peeking out. Photos just don't cut it for these gems. They're gorgeous and have a metallic luster. I have a thing for Namibian stones as they tend to have a slight bluish color to the green.

So I think I'm done buying demantoids now. . . . hopefully! I just wanted to share my exciting new purchases. My iphone 8 plus camera is terrible, so these are the best
photos I could muster.

Honest opinions are always welcome in my posts. You don't have to love them, but I do!!

 

[musicloveranthony]

That cushion cut is delicious! I bet those are sparklebombs in the sun

 

[T L]

That cushion cut is delicious! I bet those are sparklebombs in the sun

Thanks, they throw off rainbows! My camera sucks at capturing fire.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I, too, love that fancy cushion!! The dispersion must be incredible with that precision cut. This is one variety of gem with which I'm not as intimately acquainted. Talk to me about the ideal color... hue, tone, saturation. In my readings and time at the GIA, I remember learning all about the Russian horsetail inclusions, etc. And I know demantoid rivals diamond in terms of fire. I also understand they are sometimes heated to improve color, which was very surprising to me, because I've never known garnet to be treated. Where do PSers browse high-grade demantoid? All I ever see are the drab mossy greens. I like that your stones have more of a blue modifier, T L!

 

[T L]

Thank you @Autumn in New England !

Well if you're talking trade ideal color, that would be the Russian Ural mountain material. It's a neon green, and quite beautiful. It isn't as dispersive, but the color is so vivid, that it doesn't matter much.

This jeweler has some world class Russian demantoid, and he explains the color quality.

As for Namibian material, this particular Russian stone reminds me of some of the finest Namibian stones I've seen. It's from the same jeweler, and I think it's amazing, although not top ideal trade color.

5.82 Carat Russian Demantoid Yellow Diamond 18 Karat Gold Cocktail Ring For Sale at 1stDibs | royal demantoid

For Sale on 1stDibs - Luxurious 18 Karat Gold Ring featured rare 5.82 ct Russian Demantoid accented with Yellow pear cut Diamonds 1.48 ctw and round Demantoids 1.11 ctw. Demantoid

www.1stdibs.com

It's the real brownish yellowish ones you want to avoid, unless you like that color and you pay a fair price. They are popular with designers too, and great for fall jewelry, but do not overpay for them, and DO NOT overpay for any demantoid only based on Russian origin, as some Russian stones, although beautiful, do not look typical Russian.

I believe demantoid is sometimes heated to improve clarity, not color, but I could be wrong. I also do not think the treatment is detectible. It is also a 6.5 on the Moh's hardness scale, so not as hard as other garnets, so be careful wearing them in rings. I loupe mine, and so far they've held up though, unlike tanzanite, also 6.5, but chips the moment you breathe on it, LOL!

I got my cushion from a benitoite dealer that only had this demantoid. He was a rock hound that was at the Namibian mine in 1999, when he dug up this stone. The other stone is from a reputable website, but it was the last one in a decent price range. It was some of their older stock that no one paid attention to. You have to search hard to find decent stones. I found some on Instagram, but the prices per carat were astronomical. Earth's Treasury had some pretty ones, at reasonable prices, but they were too lime green for me.

Here's a gorgeous Namibian of very deep bluish green color and 11 carats in a GIA article. I love this stone so much!! It reminds me of the Russian cushion in the ring I posted above.

Large Namibian Demantoid Garnet | Gems & Gemology

The Green Dragon mine yields exceptional demantoid, including a round brilliant seen at Tucson’s GJX show.

www.gia.edu

 

[Autumn in New England]

This is most helpful, @T L! Wow... thank you. So now I see why this stone is so beloved. I must admit, I never really understood the appeal before, because all I ever saw were those muddy stones you mentioned wanting to avoid. But those vivid greens are glorious! Add to that the high dispersion, and they must be a sight to behold.

This is the color I commonly see.



But this seems like the ideal color in watching the vid you shared. I can honestly say I've never seen this quality in person. I had no idea they reached this level of saturation with a pure (if not slightly yellow) green hue. Gorgeous.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Well enjoy your beautiful stones, my friend! Will you set that fancy cut or just keep it in the collection?

 

[T L]

The olive green stones, like the pear you posted, are far more common, but there are brown stones as well (see the GIA article I posted, and there's a photo of a brown trillion to the right of the 11 carat beauty). I've seen all kinds of qualities. There's a drop dead gorgeous 11 carat Russian of top quality at the Smithsonian Gem Hall. It puts the Hope diamond to shame. LOL!

My favorite stone in the world is the Dresden green diamond, it's a fancy green, with a hint of blue, which is why I love these demantoids so much. I obviously would never ever be able to attain the Dresden or anything like it, but at least I can have my demantoids!! LOL!

I am setting both stones, as I think gems are to be enjoyed and worn.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@T L You certainly love your green gems, huh?! I've come to really enjoy them myself. I had to look up that Dresden diamond. Wowzers. I read that it's nearly IF. Do show us your stones once set!!

 

[Atwater]

The cushion is so beautiful!

The video is educational. I really like the color of this russian demantoid (https://www.instagram.com/reel/CXQhk8Sp1MU/?utm_medium=copy_link). It looks like a vivid green?

 

[demantoidz]

I love these demantoids (obviously! My name) and thanks for sharing TL. My first CS was a cheap but beautiful precision cut minty green Namibian demantoid. I sold it since.

Regarding treatment - demantoid can be heated and it's occasionally detectable but labs probably don't want to put it on reports if they can't be almost 100% certain. See for example the last sentence in this SSEF article about color changing zircon

Colour-Changing Zircon - SSEF

by Dr. M.S. Krzemnicki, first published in Facette 20 (January 2013) After studying and describing colour-changing bastnäsite in the 2012 Facette (Herzog 2011 & Herzog 2012), we have this year focussed research on colour-changing zircon from Burma in collaboration with Mr. O. Waldis, who kindly...

www.ssef.ch

"As further evidence of such heating, we could observe minute disc-like expansion cracks and partly dissolved inclusion features, commonly known from heat-treated stones such as corundum, chrysoberyl, and demantoid."

Whether stones are heated is mine-dependent - certain mines produce material that doesn't usually need heating while others do. I'm talking about Ural stones here. GIA has some details -

Update on Russian Demantoid Production | Gems & Gemology

Alexey Burlakov shares insights on the current production of Russian demantoid and emeralds.

www.gia.edu

"The Korkodin mine is characterized by a darker color, often with a brownish tint that can be removed by heat treatment. Poldnevaya produces material of lighter, more “open” colors without the secondary brown. Because they are naturally a pure green, these demantoids do not require heating to optimize the color.
A third known deposit is Nizhny, located in the Tagil region about 200 km north of the other two mines. This was the original deposit where Russian demantoid was discovered, but it is currently inactive. The material from this mine typically has a lighter color with a slightly bluish tint, setting it apart from the other two."

Indeed, I recall that Tagil stones are considered superior if they are a chrome green with bluish tint, according to a Russian vendor I've chatted with. Not sure about treatment on Namibian stones, would be interesting to look into it.

Some eye candy of one of the best I've seen, but not surprised it went unsold with a ~300k estimate for a 5ct stone.

 

[demantoidz]

I obviously would never ever be able to attain the Dresden or anything like it,

I mean, the museum was recently raided and had a bunch of stuff stolen. The Desden green is still there and up for grabs! I myself will look into stealing the Aurora green.

 

[T L]

I mean, the museum was recently raided and had a bunch of stuff stolen. The Desden green is still there and up for grabs! I myself will look into stealing the Aurora green.

Thanks for all the additional scientific literature and information on demantoids. I love the rare Russian stones with that tiny bit of blue. The rest are a bit too yellow for me. Emerald green is my favorite green color, so that touch of blue always makes a difference. I think the nice chrome green Russian (and Persian) demantoids are a bit more of a tsavorite green.

 

[T L]

I love these demantoids (obviously! My name) and thanks for sharing TL. My first CS was a cheap but beautiful precision cut minty green Namibian demantoid. I sold it since.

Regarding treatment - demantoid can be heated and it's occasionally detectable but labs probably don't want to put it on reports if they can't be almost 100% certain. See for example the last sentence in this SSEF article about color changing zircon

Colour-Changing Zircon - SSEF

by Dr. M.S. Krzemnicki, first published in Facette 20 (January 2013) After studying and describing colour-changing bastnäsite in the 2012 Facette (Herzog 2011 & Herzog 2012), we have this year focussed research on colour-changing zircon from Burma in collaboration with Mr. O. Waldis, who kindly...

www.ssef.ch

"As further evidence of such heating, we could observe minute disc-like expansion cracks and partly dissolved inclusion features, commonly known from heat-treated stones such as corundum, chrysoberyl, and demantoid."

Whether stones are heated is mine-dependent - certain mines produce material that doesn't usually need heating while others do. I'm talking about Ural stones here. GIA has some details -

Update on Russian Demantoid Production | Gems & Gemology

Alexey Burlakov shares insights on the current production of Russian demantoid and emeralds.

www.gia.edu

"The Korkodin mine is characterized by a darker color, often with a brownish tint that can be removed by heat treatment. Poldnevaya produces material of lighter, more “open” colors without the secondary brown. Because they are naturally a pure green, these demantoids do not require heating to optimize the color.
A third known deposit is Nizhny, located in the Tagil region about 200 km north of the other two mines. This was the original deposit where Russian demantoid was discovered, but it is currently inactive. The material from this mine typically has a lighter color with a slightly bluish tint, setting it apart from the other two."

Indeed, I recall that Tagil stones are considered superior if they are a chrome green with bluish tint, according to a Russian vendor I've chatted with. Not sure about treatment on Namibian stones, would be interesting to look into it.

Some eye candy of one of the best I've seen, but not surprised it went unsold with a ~300k estimate for a 5ct stone.

Tsarina Jewels has this 5+ carat stone in a ring for the relative bargain if $160,000. I prefer their stone because it isn’t as dark or hazy. I think the horsetail inclusions can sometimes impede sparkle, and I don’t care for them as much.

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[T L]

The cushion is so beautiful!

The video is educational. I really like the color of this russian demantoid (https://www.instagram.com/reel/CXQhk8Sp1MU/?utm_medium=copy_link). It looks like a vivid green?

It is a vivid green for demantoid. Beautiful stone!

 

[demantoidz]

Tsarina Jewels has this 5+ carat stone in a ring for the relative bargain if $160,000. I prefer their stone because it isn’t as dark.

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Yes that one is lovely. There was a high quality one on bonhams recently, 5ct on the dot, AGL 'classic Russian', sold for 77k.

Bonhams : A RARE DEMANTOID GARNET RING

Set with a circular-cut demantoid garnet, weighing 5.00 carats; mounted in 18k gold; size 6

www.bonhams.com

I actually saw the same one from Bonhams at retail for 90k before it went to auction. I'll post pics I have of it from then, in case someone is curious. I think the central horsetail is a bit much though, and its clearly yellow leaning.
I personally prefer the darker chrome greens like the one I posted earlier if they have very little yellow or a blue modifier. Hard to tell when they become too dark,since it can impact brilliance. Sorry for derailing this thread

 

[T L]

@demantoidz

I have to disagree a bit with the vendor in the GIA video you posted. He said Namibian stones are not as fine as Russian material, but I have seen Namibian stones that look exactly like the bluish green ring beauty at 7:48 minutes in the GIA video you posted.

They’re just not typically as chrome green.

I’m not sure about Madagascar material which was also mentioned.

 

[T L]

Yes that one is lovely. There was a high quality one on bonhams recently, 5ct on the dot, AGL 'classic Russian', sold for 77k.

Bonhams : A RARE DEMANTOID GARNET RING

Set with a circular-cut demantoid garnet, weighing 5.00 carats; mounted in 18k gold; size 6

www.bonhams.com

I actually saw the same one from Bonhams at retail for 90k before it went to auction. I'll post pics I have of it from then, in case someone is curious. I think the central horsetail is a bit much though, and its clearly yellow leaning.
I personally prefer the darker chrome greens like the one I posted earlier if they have very little yellow or a blue modifier. Hard to tell when they become too dark,since it can impact brilliance. Sorry for derailing this thread

No way are you derailing the thread. I opened it to discuss all and everything about demantoids!! Great information, thank you!!

The horsetail is also a bit too much for me in that gem, if we’re nitpicking here. I still would die to own it. The one at the Smithsonian is an 11 carat behemoth. I cannot find photos online, but here are my photos. It was the most magnificent of gems! There were rainbows coming out of it. My camera totally fails at capturing its perfection.

 

[T L]

This is the only online photo I could find if the Smithsonian gem, which is what @Autumn in New England also posted. This photo does the stone absolutely no justice whatsoever!

Andradite (var. demantoid) - Smithsonian Institution

 

[demantoidz]

@demantoidz

I have to disagree a bit with the vendor in the GIA video you posted. He said Namibian stones are not as fine as Russian material, but I have seen Namibian stones that look exactly like the bluish green ring beauty at 7:48 minutes in the GIA video you posted.

They’re just not typically as chrome green.

I’m not sure about Madagascar material which was also mentioned.

I did not even notice there was a video I was just looking for info on heating, and read the text. I watched it now.
I disagree with him too for the same reasons. I know little about non-Russian or non-Namibian material - eg with Iranian, Pakistani and Italian (I think there are Italian ones?). The Iranians and Pakistanis I've seen on IG are quite pretty. Chrome yellowish greens. But who knows for sure.

No way are you derailing the thread. I opened it to discuss all and everything about demantoids!! Great information, thank you!!

The horsetail is also a bit too much for me in that gem, if we’re nitpicking here. I still would die to own it. The one at the Smithsonian is an 11 carat behemoth. I cannot find photos online, but here are my photos. It was the most magnificent of gems! There were rainbows coming out of it. My camera totally fails at capturing its perfection.

Derailing as in, the original topic being your stones or Namibian origin. But I'm glad to hear I'm not being out of line. I simply have much more to say about Russian stones, as gorgeous as Namibians & other origins are.

Yes I would die to own the Bonhams stone, and die twice for the 11 carater! And if someone here owned anything like them, I'd have nothing but compliments and awe. We're really just being nitpicky because its fun and educational.

I had this photo saved for a long time of a 7ct demantoid which I considered ideal (at least in this lighting). As gorgeous as it is, I'm not so sure anymore. I now prefer the less yellow, unsold 300k estimate stone. But both side by side under the same lighting there'd be more to think about.

I really need to see more IRL. A fine Russian demantoid is a dream gem in my future even if its not 11 carats.

 

[T L]

I did not even notice there was a video I was just looking for info on heating, and read the text. I watched it now.
I disagree with him too for the same reasons. I know little about non-Russian or non-Namibian material - eg with Iranian, Pakistani and Italian (I think there are Italian ones?). The Iranians and Pakistanis I've seen on IG are quite pretty. Chrome yellowish greens. But who knows for sure.



Derailing as in, the original topic being your stones or Namibian origin. But I'm glad to hear I'm not being out of line. I simply have much more to say about Russian stones, as gorgeous as Namibians & other origins are.

Yes I would die to own the Bonhams stone, and die twice for the 11 carater! And if someone here owned anything like them, I'd have nothing but compliments and awe. We're really just being nitpicky because its fun and educational.

I had this photo saved for a long time of a 7ct demantoid which I considered ideal (at least in this lighting). As gorgeous as it is, I'm not so sure anymore. I now prefer the less yellow, unsold 300k estimate stone. But both side by side under the same lighting there'd be more to think about.

I really need to see more IRL. A fine Russian demantoid is a dream gem in my future even if its not 11 carats.

That’s too dark and yellow for me, but I still would die to own it. I actually prefer my Namibian to that color because I’m not a fan of chrome yellowish green. It just goes to show you that trade ideal color isn’t always ideal to someone else. The 11 carat stone was like the color of the finest bluish green tsavorite, but even those are not as bluish green in depth as the most vivid emeralds. Emeralds are low RI though. Now if I could find a stone with the best Muzo green, but with the fire and brilliance of the most dispersive demantoid!!! I think the Smithsonian gem comes closest, but no such gem exists. There’s always a give and take, isn’t there?!

By the way, I haven’t been as keen on the Pakistani demantoids I’ve seen, but perhaps I haven’t seen great material. The Persian material is much like the chrome green you posted.

 

[T L]

This is a color I love, which some dealers have told me does not exist in demantoid, and other dealers told me it does. It’s Namibian. This is far from trade ideal.

 

[demantoidz]

This is a color I love, which some dealers have told me does not exist in demantoid, and other dealers told me it does. It’s Namibian. This is far from trade ideal.

What do you find is different between lighter bluish green demantoids vs bluish merelani mint garnets? Similar color, both very dispersive. Haven't seen enough IRL to form an opinion.

 

[T L]

My included Namibian is also very blue.

What do you find is different between lighter bluish green demantoids vs bluish merelani mint garnets? Similar color, both very dispersive. Haven't seen enough IRL to form an opinion.

Hmmmm, I have both but I haven’t compared them as almost everything is in the safety deposit box. This is a good photo of my bluish green Namibian in the sun. It’s included, but I LOVE this gem. The cushion I just got is bluish, but it’s hard to photograph loose. Here’s some mint garnets (with an olive green diamond and pink spinels) to compare.



Paraiba blue is peaking out of the corner.

 

[T L]

Great photo of my Namibian cushion which is bluish in the sun, but more yellowish indoors. With some Namibians, not all, there is a noticeable color shift. The elongated cushion stays bluish in all lighting. So if you’re searching for bluish Namibians, that is something to be aware of. This stone is as clean as a whistle though.

 

[demantoidz]

I'd like a minty green something in my future that is more dispersive than tourmaline (which is abundant in light green), and I think I will have to decide between demantoid vs mint grossular. So this is an interesting discussion for me. Love how blingy the above rings are.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

This is a color I love, which some dealers have told me does not exist in demantoid, and other dealers told me it does. It’s Namibian. This is far from trade ideal.

This is the only green color I like and I managed to find it in a small Merelani mint garnet oval. It’s very sparkly! I would love a similar color demantoid but I doubt I could ever afford one. My budget is usually less than $500 per stone but maybe I will look for a tiny one! My mint is probably tougher anyway for a ring but I agree that they should all be enjoyed.

 

[T L]

I'd like a minty green something in my future that is more dispersive than tourmaline (which is abundant in light green), and I think I will have to decide between demantoid vs mint grossular. So this is an interesting discussion for me. Love how blingy the above rings are.

Well mint grossular is easier to find, as well as less per carat in sizes over a carat. I’ve been quoted $2k/carat for fine bluish green mint stones between 1 and 1,5 carats and those are Namibian!! The prices jump exponentially each half carat. Russians can run higher.

I love light to medium toned bluish green stones, my fav being bluish green diamond like the Dresden, but you have others to choose from because most green diamonds cost a ransom. With tourmaline, grossular and andradite, the factors to consider are RI, durability, rarity, size constraints and of course, price, which all factor in choice. I think mint garnet is probably the best overall choice as it’s RI is higher than tourmaline and it’s more durable as well. Although it doesn’t have the luster and dispersion of demantoid, it is readily available, and quite coveted. I think for what it is, it’s a better value than minty tourmaline, although that is just my opinion. I have minty tourmalines too, and they’re lovely stones. I have a mint cuprian that is very glowy and I’m planning on setting..

There’s a minty green theme with me. My least favorite colors are reds, oranges and yellows. We all like what we like

 

[Autumn in New England]

Loving the trillion pink spinel ring, @T L!! Is that also a demantoid at center?

 

[T L]

Loving the trillion pink spinel ring, @T L!! Is that also a demantoid at center?

Thank you! No it's a minty grossular garnet. So is the heart. I was asked to compare those minty grossulars to minty andradite (demantoid).