A closed Industry Forum for Retailers, e-tailers and Wholesalers

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I know you are rather busy right now, but would a cloosed forum be of any interest / value to you?

I envisage a place where we could discuss all those scum bag consumers in private (joke)

No really - a place to exchange appraisal info and tips, how to use the business related functions and things on this website that are only available for $350 pa on some other sites. Store layouts, successful promotions, and all that sort of stuff.

Not to mention an open forum to discuss Pricescope and its effects on your business - that can be positive and negative.
I think all would agree that Leonid provides a very fair, well moderated and open platform. We all know that Pricescope is discussed adnauseum on other closed trade sites; why not do it here?

We also all know that there are people from some organisations that lurk, but are not permitted to post. I believe some of them may be able to participate now or in the future if their boards knew the discussions were not fully public. This would assist those organisations in their trade communications because we know that at any point in time there are a large number of industry people reading the forum.

Feel free to contact me on this misspelled email address (to reduce spam) if you are a lurker and care to comment.

garryhATideal-scope.com

 

[valeria101]

Garry, your message sounds quite sad...

Could it be good ol'' Pricescope again without expert intervention ? Just grapevine left to be tossed here and there !

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Ana I hope such a move will help bring more trade experts.

But please leave this thread for industry people

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Here is an example of a trade forum that can not be accessed by the public.
They serve many useful functions and add value, not subtract it.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Hi Garry,

Of all the information that I want to share with others, there is none that I would only like to share with professionals, and not with consumers.

If anything is confidential, I am definitely not going to share it with any colleagues.

When looking at the rapaport-forum, it is utterly boring. With Polygon, I have no experience, but I hear that others find it a very interesting place.

Therefore, I do not think that I will be an active participant in such a separate forum.

Live long,

 

[perry]

Gary:

Since I run a different kind of internet business on the side I will provide my comments.

I don''t think there is a lot to gain by such a forum. By and large they tend to either rehash basics (which could just as well be posted as a link on the pricescope toolbar), complain about the consumers and competitors, and once in a while hit upon something that is actually worthwhile. Overall I feel that the negative outweighs the positive.

What would probably be much more effective is a private e-mail group of people whom you respect that can bounce e-mails back and fouth on certain ideas. I believe that you and the other dealers have probably already established e-mail contact with each other via this forum. My advice, is to just build on that.

Please leave the general discussion on the public forum.

Perry

 

[oldminer]

I have found that little is covered on trade forums worth bothering with. Polygon does not contain many great thoughts, but is primarily where basic information is traded. It works well for trade members, but not much of interest goes on there. How to profit from repairs, how to make money selling watch batteries, or how to buy insurance are good topics, but are of limited continuing interest.

The forums on Diamonds.net have never been a success. Part of their failure is poor software, but also the apathetic or secretive nature of those member diamond dealers who really don''t like to work under the lights. They like operating in the dark and share little with anyone.

Other trade only forums have not been roaring successes either. They were viewed as not having the number of participants of Polygon and therefore less effective and viable. It seems to have proven a correct situation.

I have found that working openly has an amazingly positive effect on business and learning. I''d be willing to particpate in a trade only forum from time to time, as I do on Polygon, but I probably would get a warmer feeling from particpating on Pricescope. You can do tangible good here for consumers and for people who want to learn. Within the trade many would claim they know it all and don''t need anyone telling them anything. That sort of pervasive attitude limits the amount one might be willing to share because their tolerance for abuse is also limited. Here the ratio of appreciation to abuse seems way lower to me. I think many of us would agree we feel good when we help people who actually want to be assisted, rather than forcing our opinions on those who prefer to do it their own way regardless of experienced advice.

Every once in a while, it would seem good to have a place for the trade to do its dirty laundry in private. A forum to take arguments on. A place to use bad language, threaten eachother, argue for no good reason and libel our competitor, but upon reflection, none of this benefits anyone including the particpants. Venting is good sometimes, but best done off-line and in private communication.

 

[denverappraiser]

Garry,

I guess I don’t see much value in it either. I actually stopped reading the forums on Poly because they were just too time consuming and too full of whining. Most of the valuable posts there come from a very short list of authors who generally make their work available elsewhere with fewer distractions. Business is a difficult thing to discuss in public and any such forum continues to be public even when membership is limited. IMO, this secrecy is a huge problem. Business is important, and it drives the economies of the entire world. The schools, at least in the US, are terrible about teaching business concepts and consumers tend to have some very strange misconceptions about how businesses work and what they do to earn their money. Pricescope is all about customer education and this is an area where the general public is sadly deficient. The small amount we do is, in my opinion, very beneficial.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

I know you wanted to ask those in the industry but you know me always have to give my 2c.
While I can see why you would want such a forum it isnt really keeping with what pricescope is all about.
Pricescope has opened up the diamond industry for tons of consumers and anything that goes against that isnt good in my opinion.
My request is dont close the curtain keep as much as possible out in the open.

Dave said it best as usual:
"I have found that working openly has an amazingly positive effect on business and learning."

\end serious stuff\

We all know you just want some place to gripe about that strmrdr character who is always asking too many questions and is a pain!

 

[Rhino]

Actually I like the idea. Not as a competing forum but just a little place where we can get advice, opinions, feedback, etc. from fellow tradesmen, etc.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

I like this post Garry. From what I am reading, I think the idea has real merrit.

Interesting what you all say about poly', etc. I will go have a look. I got a trade lock ID before I found this page, but haven't bothered to look at it. I don't know how you all find the time... It might help me, as buisness basics are what I lack. Actually I hate business as it just seems like anti-competative structures to me. I read enough internal memo's when I was doing 'discovery' at law firms to verify that. I just want to earn enough to live well enough to make it worth my while. I can't live well if I am forever holding back secrets or living a lie, no matter how much I earn.

Might be a place to unleash some scorn when I am in a bad mood

Having said that, the comments about the consquences about secrecy, and non-secrecy are a little worying. When I first read this post my initial reaction was, good, sounds like a place where people will reveal all. Jewellers are a pretty snoby bunch (present company excluded). Being scared about change seems to make some people close doors and others open. I am looking for the open ones and if I can contribute I will. Like you.

For what it is worth, I like what Dave said in his post before this one. The locked forum could be open only to people: known, invited or whom fit certain criteria?

It could be exclusive rather then 'trade only'.

I also think that there are too many (non-trade) well educated and informed people on this board whose usefull posts and work load would be missed if they were excluded.

Don't know if this helps.

Cheers,

Phillip

 

[RockDoc]

Hi All.

I see both sides of the coin and there have been really good trade only forums.... We had some of the industry''s top people participate in the cut discussions on the site owned by Mondera a couple of years ago. Remember?

I think it was called Gem Net- but I could be wrong.

Negatives were kept at a minimum, mostly because of the level of the participants. However those who didn''t have advanced knowledge kept quiet, not wanting to get in the fray.

Gary''s idea has merit if it is handled correctly....

There are a lot of knowledgable people and like wise people who can learn and benefit from participation. The key is having it be kept positive and in the spirit of advancement for all.

Making a carbon copy clone of poly''s discussion channels ended up very dissappointing. I participated on poly for a long time in the Appraisal section... but had to stick out your chin once in a while.

Generally speaking the industry doesn''t understand university thinking.... the mindset seems to be indictive to professional wrestling... Dissenting opinion is how we can advance and improve ourselves, but there are few members of the trade that can disagree courteously.

The negative side is consumer''s seem to think we are talking about them...they don''t really like secretive meetings.

It could work with the right planning and effort... we could probably try and see how it goes - as they say nothing ventured nothing gained.

Regards to all

Rockdoc


Rockdoc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thanks for the +Ve and the -ve feedback so far - keep it coming.

Dave I dont see this as an "instead of" forum - it is an as well as.

There have been good and many bad attempts at this before. Roc the best was GemKey, and although you and I had our share of flames, we all learned stuff. The type of discussion there was very often about cut and appraisal issues. It would not be appropriate for consumers to be involved in the later - but many consumers on this board bring a lot of value on the cut issues - and I would certainly like to keep those open - or maybe even bring some consumers in by invitation and member agreement. Sergey, Yuri and I have discussed this with a secret forum that already exists here - but has failed because the invitees are all too busy. We had intended to invite consumer experts in as well. But this is all just musings for discussion.

Diamond Cut Community
Private forum for discussing results of the First International Diamond Cut Conference and other issues related to development new diamond cut grading systems

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 12/15/2004 10

2:49 AM
Author: Feydakin
.. By allowing 'consumers' into a private industry group, you open the group up to a potential for conflict.. I had a hard enough time running my restaraunt open book with my employees, I can't imagine (well, actually I can) how hard it would be to run a business with consumer advocates vetting every comment..

I know you asked for industry only opinions; but, since consumers may be brought into the discussion, I feel qualified to comment. I agree with the statement above. It's either an industry only or not.

If one wants a consumer's point of view, one can ask the question here or in a PM. You will get the answers you seek, some you don't seek & one's that may be a breath of fresh aire.

I know I speak a different speak with those that are not my collegues. Really, what would a consumer bring to your table?

 

[pricescope]

Just to make it clear, I haven't planed any industry forum at Pricescope I'm taken by Garry's post by surprise

 

[Superidealist]

I nominate Brad and Garry as moderators.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If this was going to work, it would require a little privacy, but it may not require complete privacy.

Consumers who know the ropes and margins etc could add some value.

Here is one scenario - we get new industry people from time to time - they often attempt in their initial posts to assert what they might consider their unusually erudite expertise. After a few posts, they are sometimes challenged as to the accuracy, relevance and up to date nature of their attempt to give helpful advice. If they were invited to join a trade zone, they could be PS-educated without embarrassment that sometimes results in the loss of those people who could have bought valuable experiance to the forum board.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/15/2004 10:24:25 AM
Author: leonid
Just to make it clear, I haven't planed any industry forum at Pricescope I'm taken by Garry's post by surprise

I wondered about that because I know how you feel about keeping PS a consumer site and how hard you work to keep it that way.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/15/2004 3:51:44 PM
Author: Feydakin

Date: 12/15/2004 3:21

6 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
If this was going to work, it would require a little privacy, but it may not require complete privacy.

Sort of like being a little bit pregnant?? Personally I would be less willing to discuss certain topics if I knew that a consumer was listening in and may or may not leak that information out to the rest of Pricescope.. Like the original Local Jeweler program here, I can see far too many down sides to out weigh the positives that could come from this..

It''s not so much that I don''t trust consumers as a group.. But the primary goal of any business is to maximize profit.. And that is hard to do with your customers looking over your shoulder all the time..

Feydakin it is precisely that Pricescope IS a consumer based advocate site that the type of discussion I imagine taking place on a Pricescope forum would not / should not be devoted to finding better ways to charge more. This forum should be focused on helping people help consumers and in so doing, it will help jewelers build their businesses.

We who are active here in selling direct, or in keeping abreast of the e-marketing channel, know more about consumers from a different and more intimate way.

We have developed a VOICE. The TONE of that voice behind closed doors should not be different to the public tone.

But there would inevitably be discussions about store or business related topics that would be more free and open if they were done out of the wider public view.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Unless we try it, we might never know.

If Leonid is not against the idea I would like to give it a go after the silly season.