A Chip or

[londonblue]

edit: title should be - A Chip or "Natural" in Sapphire? what to do?
but i guess the board doesn't like my quotes

hello, i've been posting my sapphires in a different thread but the other day i noticed what i thought was a chip in the primary sapphire candidate. i was initially completely mortified and horrified, but was reassured that it is probably a 'natural' in the stone. i've looked at it and looked at it but i'm no gem expert so i was wondering if i could get some input from memebers of this forum.

all the clues seem to make sense, the chip or natural is located between facets, right under the girdle, i've tried and tried but haven't managed to see it in the face of the stone, even w/ my 10x loupe. the stone is at 1.14cts so it's just over the 1 ct mark, so it makes sense to conserve the ct weight of the gem. the mark is completely unnoticable unless you know it's there or you are examining the stone with a direct light source as i was w/ a desk lamp armed with a 100 watt bulb.


i was louping the stone as i thought i noticed some miniscule scratches in the facets that seemed to disappear at certain angles - i now think i'm looking at minute inclusions and other intersting elements inside the stone, possibly just under the facet surfaces. anyway, that is when i came across what i believed was a chip near the onr corner of the gem. it's visible to the naked eye, but you just have to know where to look at tilt it to a light source at the right angle.

i don't mind it at all, as the stone is still extremely beautiful, but i am just worried about durability and if it is a chip, possibly affecting the value of the gem. i plan to have the stone bezel set in a halo so i'm sure it'll be well protected, but just in case.. i'm hoping to know about any potential downsides in advance.


as they say, a picture is worth 1000 words
(all taken under my 100watt lamp, only the hand one is not taken thru a loupe)

and a sketch of it based on photo #1 as it's hard to see the shape:

i've also finally, after much comparing and scrutinizing, located a photo that i took on the first day i received the sapphires which show that mark in the same place on the stone, so i'm fairly sure that the gem arrived that way. it was just unnoticable under the diffuse lighting and at that time i was more preoccupied w/ it's face up look, color and sparkliness.

i know someone else was looking at the gem before i was, i think in fact they had bought it but ended up returning it for a different shape. so who knows what may have happened. but i would just like to rest my mind by getting some more experienced opinions on whether it looks like a chip or a natural.
the post i've turned up in search have been mostly inconclusive (threads just end , or primarily about diamonds.

thanks!

 

[valeria101]

Well... the girdle is not getting thin there, and the chip is not visible from the top. Why worry?

 

[valeria101]

Btw. just to be sure no stone (I know of online) remiained unturned... have you checked these guys ? There is a separate list for ''cushion'' and ''antique cushion'' shapes. The color codes use the ''Gem Wizard'' codes, and AGTA enhancement disclosure standard.

Just maybe... link (1.2 cts, 6mm, Untreated, GRS)

deadly color, crown to retouch?

 

[PrecisionGem]

That doesn''t look like a chip, but rather part of the original rough stone that wasn''t cleaned up in the cutting. If the cutter were to cut deeper to clean it out, then the entire stone would have been smaller. Because of the location and being a dark stone, he knew it wouldn''t be seen and left in. I think that was the right thing for him to do, and I wouldn''t worry about it if I were you.
I most likely do see polishing marks on all the facets. Most overseas cutters do not polish with a fine enough grit polish. They use either an 8000 or 14000 grit polish. These will both leave small scratches on the facets. In the US most cutters will polish with 50,000 grit. We consider 8000 and 14000 to be a pre-polish.
From the view of the pavillion, it looks like the cutlet facets are pretty shallow, I would imagine the stone windows when viewd face up? That would concern me more than the spot below the girdle.

 

[londonblue]

wow, Ana, you''re just killing me with all these choices
I''ve have to dig through that site certainly.. but without any prices it''s hard to filter through them. Would I have to get a local jeweler to call them in if I wanted to look at them?


Thanks Gene! Great, I''m much less concerned about the natural-I guess I should call it now. I''m just surprised I hadn''t managed to notice it earlier. The gem was actually cut in new york, if you look at my companion post about my quest to build a sapphire e-ring, you can see more images and a link to the page w/ the stone:
Building a Sapphire ering

Yeah, I think I noticed the window but didn''t think much of it since the stone is pretty saturated in color. But I just realized that may be what''s probably keeping this particular sapphire from "sparkling" as much as it could. Here as some face up images of the stone:

(compared next to it''s online image on the left)

in the sun:

overcast outside:

Here is the setting style we were planning on putting it in:

 

[londonblue]

at 2.4k/ct it''s hard for me to make a decision on this stone, as it''s a tad more than what i initially budgeted for a stone. the shape to me is breathtaking, but it''s hard when you like everything to be perfect and it''s a natural stone. i wonder if i would have better luck w/ treated stones? although so far i''ve been offered nothing but 3-5ct monsters

with the window and everything, should i keep hunting and get them to custom cut a stone for me?
here are some more images in some more different lighting:

 

[rainbowtrout]

londonblue, I had the exact same thing happen to me..and I am wondering if they are from the same site. Richard really does need to mention naturals more explicitly in his descriptions...

I was actually originally thinking of that Legacy setting as well..ended up with a different one though. In any case, if you are interested about chips/naturals here is the thread on mine:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gouge-in-new-sapphire.36824/

 

[londonblue]

hi rainbowtrout,

actaully i was reading your post just last night when i did a search for naturals and chips
yes, i''m also looking at gems from cherrypicked. i freaked out the first time i found the chip because i thought i must have caused it. not the thing you want to do to 2.4k/ct sapphire you don''t own yet!

so i assume you kept your stone then? the thing about searching on web forums is that you often find a similar issue, but then you never know how it was resolved because the thread just sort of dies

thanks for the reponse though! your sapphire looks really nice and so BIG. were you satisfied w/ your purchase? i must say though that Richard is wonderful to work with, he definitely knows how to run a business and that customer satisfaction and relations is priority #1 if you want to do well

 

[rainbowtrout]

yep, its all done and set now. it''s here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sapphire-e-ring-done.43293/

he insists in taking pics in low light so you can''t really see the different colors it takes on...ah well, FI is the one with the the camera.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/13/2006 3:53:26 PM
Author: londonblue


...without any prices it's hard to filter through them. Would I have to get a local jeweler to call them in if I wanted to look at them?

That's how it works. 'Guess ever one posting here works with Stuller, although I am not sure how popular their color gem stash is. It looks like there are a couple ( single digits range) of fine choices at any given time online among the dozens and dozens of records of several natural gem kinds.

On the other hand, ATTG does 'cherry picking' for a living. There is a premium for their good taste, but nothing that bad. Down that link is their inventory list that mentioned a couple of blue cushion shaped sapphires. Lots more ovals. I'd ask for the best color for the money and consider shape afterwards - around 1k/ct instead of 2.5... I keep reminding myself that brilliants and cushions are cousins. I think ATTG does custom cutting too.

Don't want to be annoying... posting this stuff. Are you even considering other options / sellers? After all, it isn't me that has to like this sapphire. Got to keep remind that to myself more often

 

[bar01]

Lots of great pictures here - Best sapphire post ever with pictures!

About chip/nicks, mine had one (from cherypicked). It was found by Whiteflash when they were making the setting for me. They sent me a 10x (or maybe it was 20x) photo - I freaked out. What? My sapphire is not perfect? I want everything perfect! Everything in my life and marriage must be perfect! Grrrrr……

In a panic I sent the whiteflash photos on to Richard Sherwood, who looked at it -and calmed me down and told me it was not usual and nothing to worry about, and did not affect it durability, beauty, or price. This was confirmed once he received it later for full lab workup and appraisal. Whiteflash set the sapphire in a way so that the nick/chip was covered.

 

[londonblue]

rainbowtrout - that''s a very pretty ring!
lol, i just remembered i used to love eating rainbow trout.. these days though it''s mostly salmon

ana - not at all, i really appreciate your input as well as your links to other sellers. I am trying to scour the ends of internet to find the sapphire i''m looking for. And every additional stone to look at helps! I''ve looked at every single link so far and would like to consider other sellers, but have yet to find one that is very appealing. Some have photos that seem to leave a lot to be desired, others just don''t have quite the right shape or color. I''m not sure, do I really want to contact all these places to purchase their gems so I can look at them in person? For one, I anticipate that it''ll be hard for me to arrange to have them all at once (can my credit card even handle it!) - but then if I look at them as I get them, then the one I may really want I may have already sent back and been sold to someone else.

unfortunately, a square cushion is what we''re pretty much set on.. they sort of get your adrenaline pumping when you see them.. it''s almost like.. well, nevermind
but atgg did have 2 of them, one of which although it doesn not have any dimensions spec''d, i''d guess would be too large at over 2 cts =(
2.45ct Sq Cushion Bright Medium Blue Sapphire (blgem-04-06)

and wrong color - what is color shifting btw?
1.41ct Color Shifting Sapphire, Sri Lanka, (sprkl-93-01a)

now i feel like i''m being too picky


bertrand - i have more pictures if you like
cool, so it doesn''t seem that unusual to have nicks/naturals in different cut gemstones. interesting that there is barely any mention of it usually.. i guess it doesn''t happen that often?
just wondering how you thought your sapphire compared to it''s images on cherrypicked?


any more input by anyone would be greatly appreciated as I would like to make a decision about the sapphire by next week!

 

[JulieN]

color shift? like color change? looks different colors in UV (?) light