$8,500 difference B&M vs. online

[melz]

So earlier today I posted a topic "Pls assess this trade up potential." Wish I knew how to link it, but I don't.

Essentially a retailer was going to allow me to trade in my current diamond for a diamond they found for me more to my liking. Not how I'd choose to buy a diamond, but probably my best bet. Out of pocket cost for me was going to be $6,000. The 2ct upgrade was priced at $20,500, but they were giving me 100% credit for my (overpriced) existing diamond, priced at $14,500 (and bought for 20% less, but that's another story).

Seemed like an okay deal. Then I did a pricescope search and found that diamond they were offering me for $20,500. The exact same one, GIA number and everything. It's currently listed as "unavailable" on at least one e-tailer, b/c the retailer pulled it for me, so I don't think there is any danger of someone scooping this up from under me.

It's listed for under $12k.

Even with the generous trade-in policy, which includes that 20% bonus, that's a hard one to swallow. If anyone was not yet a believer in buying over the internet ....

 

[missydebby]

WOW!

 

[legallyspoiled]

Wow! I cringe just thinking about B&M stores. I''ve read so many bad stories on PS. It is scary out there. Thank God for Pricescope! I feel sorry for the folks that don''t know any better. Any time I pass a B&M now and see people inside, I have to resist the urge to go in and tell everyone to make a run for it.


Good for you for doing your due diligence. I would print out the info and carry it back to the B&M and ask for an explanation. I''m sure the look on their face will be priceless!

 

[yssie]

There is a vibe here on PS that internet = good, b&m = bad that you don''t have to stick around for long to feel.



It''s sad. Not all brick and mortar stores are out to manipulate you, misinform you, and squeeze you dry - not even brick and mortar stores that don''t also sell online through PS. It''s the bad ones, like the one you had this unfortunate experience with, Melz, that give them all a bad name

 

[denverappraiser]

What are the details on the existing diamond? The offer is apparently a $12k diamond plus whatever added value comes from the dealer in exchange for the existing one plus $6k in cash. That may or may not be reasonable depending on what you have now. Listing a ‘regular’ price of $20k is annoying, and being annoying is perhaps a good enough reason to shop somewhere else but personally I’m pretty immune to that. Lots of merchants do it ranging from my grocer to amazon.com. Just pay attention to the deal at hand rather than what they say it would be under some different arrangement. As mentioned above, it's not the fact that they have a showroom in your neighborhood or even that they're jewelers that makes them behave this way; some of the worst offenders at this are online shops.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

I just copied this from your other thread, which contains the answer I was looking for:

Date: 4/15/2010 2:57:43 PM
Author: Melz

"What my diamond is worth is a bit variable, and of course all depends on whether I can sell it. I met with an appraiser this morning, in fact, which prompted these postings. She said it was right on the edge of SI2/I1, but she was giving it an SI2 b/c the inclusions did not look as though they impacted the integrity of the diamond. However, she said it was a very "busy" diamond and I've been told by others it's an I1. She also could not measure the depth as it was mounted but using a computer estimater came out with a size of 1.96 (it's represented by EGL as 2.05, but was also appraised by them mounted).

So, she said it would wholesale $5k - $7k depending on that clarity grade unless I have it unmounted and it weighs out to the 2 ct mark. In that case, if it is an SI2 it would wholesale for $5500/ct, or $11k.

That said, if it's a "busy" diamond, who's going to want to buy it? I think it will just sit. "

I'm not so sure 'wholesale' is a particularly relevant price in your situation but a quick search of the database has several stones in the 1.9x/SI2/I/non-GIA range offered for about $7,000 from the dealers here. Normally private sellers are able to realize about 1/2 - 3/4 of what the dealers here are asking so you're in that $4-5k range of what you could sell it for although this varies dramatically with things like your own selling skills, the accuracy of that grading and your buyer's thoughts about 'busy'. Given that, it sounds to me like the trade in offer from the B&M is LESS than your online alternative, not more like the headline suggests.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[melz]

The markup from their offer vs. online offer is $8500. But Neil you are correct, their price may have taken into consideration the 20% or $2900 discount on the original purchase, in which case the mark up would be more accurately represented as $5600. I'm not sure that's the case, as I'm actually dealing with the supplier of the retailer, and the discount was for opening a credit card at the retailer level ..... but to be completely fair, it's possible the markup is $5600.

ETA: the mark up number in the headline referred to the difference between their price for the diamond and an online price for the same diamond. So I did not consider the value of my diamond to be relevant.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 4/15/2010 6:19:19 PM
Author: Melz
The markup from their offer vs. online offer is $8500. But Neil you are correct, their price may have taken into consideration the 20% or $2900 discount on the original purchase, in which case the mark up would be more accurately represented as $5600. I'm not sure that's the case, as I'm actually dealing with the supplier of the retailer, and the discount was for opening a credit card at the retailer level ..... but to be completely fair, it's possible the markup is $5600.


ETA: the mark up number in the headline referred to the difference between their price for the diamond and an online price for the same diamond. So I did not consider the value of my diamond to be relevant.

Markup isn’t the question. They’re offering you a $12,000 diamond for $6,000 plus a tradein. That makes the tradein ‘worth’ $6000 to this deal. What it says on the price tag is beside the point. For that matter, what they offered it for independent of the tradein and what you actually paid for the other stone the first time are also beside the point. The deal on the table NOW sounds to me like a fairly competitive offer and I’ll be surprised if you can find another dealer who will beat it but, of course, it depends on whether the subject stone is actually what you want. A good price on the wrong thing is no bargain. Have you seen the stone? Do you love it? If you decide to keep your existing stone and buy this one too, I would recommend asking them for a lower price and explain your reasoning. Betcha you get it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/15/2010 6:30:21 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/15/2010 6:19:19 PM
Author: Melz
The markup from their offer vs. online offer is $8500. But Neil you are correct, their price may have taken into consideration the 20% or $2900 discount on the original purchase, in which case the mark up would be more accurately represented as $5600. I''m not sure that''s the case, as I''m actually dealing with the supplier of the retailer, and the discount was for opening a credit card at the retailer level ..... but to be completely fair, it''s possible the markup is $5600.


ETA: the mark up number in the headline referred to the difference between their price for the diamond and an online price for the same diamond. So I did not consider the value of my diamond to be relevant.

Markup isn’t the question. They’re offering you a $12,000 diamond for $6,000 plus a tradein. That makes the tradein ‘worth’ $6000 to this deal. What it says on the price tag is beside the point. For that matter, what they offered it for independent of the tradein and what you actually paid for the other stone the first time are also beside the point. The deal on the table NOW sounds to me like a fairly competitive offer and I’ll be surprised if you can find another dealer who will beat it but, of course, it depends on whether the subject stone is actually what you want. A good price on the wrong thing is no bargain. Have you seen the stone? Do you love it? If you decide to keep your existing stone and buy this one too, I would recommend asking them for a lower price and explain your reasoning. Betcha get it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Yes, this is how to look at it for sure.

 

[melz]

Date: 4/15/2010 6:30:21 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/15/2010 6:19:19 PM
Author: Melz
The markup from their offer vs. online offer is $8500. But Neil you are correct, their price may have taken into consideration the 20% or $2900 discount on the original purchase, in which case the mark up would be more accurately represented as $5600. I''m not sure that''s the case, as I''m actually dealing with the supplier of the retailer, and the discount was for opening a credit card at the retailer level ..... but to be completely fair, it''s possible the markup is $5600.


ETA: the mark up number in the headline referred to the difference between their price for the diamond and an online price for the same diamond. So I did not consider the value of my diamond to be relevant.

Markup isn’t the question. They’re offering you a $12,000 diamond for $6,000 plus a tradein. That makes the tradein ‘worth’ $6000 to this deal. What it says on the price tag is beside the point. For that matter, what they offered it for independent of the tradein and what you actually paid for the other stone the first time are also beside the point. The deal on the table NOW sounds to me like a fairly competitive offer and I’ll be surprised if you can find another dealer who will beat it but, of course, it depends on whether the subject stone is actually what you want. A good price on the wrong thing is no bargain. Have you seen the stone? Do you love it? If you decide to keep your existing stone and buy this one too, I would recommend asking them for a lower price and explain your reasoning. Betcha get it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Okay gotcha. So the key is for me is to determine if I can sell my diamond for $6000. Because if I can, I am not hostage to this retailer. I''ve emailed my appraiser to see what she thinks. I also emailed the retailer. Maybe they will budge on price.

 

[denverappraiser]

Bingo. It may be worth the fee to have your appraiser pull the stone and weigh it (or hire someone else to pull it if she doesn't do this sort of work herself). The +/- 2 carat thing is an awfully big deal in evaluating the resale potential. If you decide to sell it yourself, it will also almost certainly be in your best interest to get a GIA grading on it to answer that nagging grading question, which is also a big deal. This can only be done on an unmounted stone. She should be able to help you with both of these tasks as needed.

(Note: Pulling a stone is usually fairly inexpensive. Resetting it can be a little pricey. Don't pull it out yet unless you're fairly confident you're going to proceed with at least some sort of deal.)

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[melz]

Date: 4/15/2010 6:49:07 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Bingo. It may be worth the fee to have your appraiser pull the stone and weigh it (or hire someone else to pull it if she doesn''t do this sort of work herself). The +/- 2 carat thing is an awfully big deal in evaluating the resale potential. If you decide to sell it yourself, it will also almost certainly be in your best interest to get a GIA grading on it to answer that nagging grading question, which is also a big deal. This can only be done on an unmounted stone. She should be able to help you with both of these tasks as needed.

(Note: Pulling a stone is usually fairly inexpensive. Resetting it can be a little pricey. Don''t pull it out yet unless you''re fairly confident you''re going to proceed with at least some sort of deal.)

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Thank you for the good advice.