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5 stone diamond and sapphire band, real or repo?

MakingTheGrade

MakingTheGrade

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Mar 2, 2009
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I'm supposed to be on ban island, but I've wanted a ring to wear on my pointer finger, something more like a band and less like a solitaire that would be sturdy enough to withstand me being clumsy (Ive already scratched up softer gems, even spinels!). I came across this 5 stone, but don't know much about "Antiques" including whether this is actually likely to be a real antique or a reproduction?

It's 18k yellow gold and 1.4tcw and the old cuts and wonkiness and tiny rose cuts in between the prongs makes me think Victorian maybe?
Also would love any price comps, it's listed at 1.3k, and I have no idea what aspects go into pricing antique/vintage pieces. I've bought and returned from this vendor before a few times and have found them overall accurate in their listing photos though they're a mass wholesaler so limited info. They do list .6tcw of diamonds, about H-J VS, no real info on the sapphires other than they're natural (no comments about heating, my guess is they don't test for it)

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Are there any stamps on the shank?
 
The metal seem to have very little wear marks.

My impression (no expert) leans towards newly cast piece in a style to look old (the way the prongs don’t scream modern and orderly) and the choice of polish job.

Happy to hear what more experienced folk say. Maybe what I’m seeing is just due to varying price points of mfg available at the original period.
 
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kgizo said:
Are there any stamps on the shank?
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Apparently there's a stamp for the 18k, but the company police as wholesalers is they don't do additional photos, though I can return it if I see it in person and don't like it

but yeah the lack of stamps visible on the inside does make it likely to be more modern huh...
 
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Rfisher said:
The metal seem to have very little wear marks.

My impression (no expert) leans towards newly cast piece in a style to look old (the way the prongs don’t scream modern and orderly) and the choice of polish job.

Happy to hear what more experienced folk say. Maybe what I’m seeing is just due to varying price points of mfg available at the original period.
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haha yeah I noticed the prongs were super wonky
 
I’m guessing it’s true antique Victorian. It’s typical of that stylistic period and with time frame appropriate materials. It’s got a lot of expensive details if it is a Repro, including the tiny diamonds between the five stones. These materials - matched old cuts and matched sapphires, tiny diamonds, are not cheap to obtain. 18k also strikes me as antique versus repro material. And the overall delicacy of the piece seems antique. I’m a novice though. If you will wear it often, check those prongs regularly. The wonky pongs are also period specific crafting.
 
LightBright said:
I’m guessing it’s true antique Victorian. It’s typical of that stylistic period and with time frame appropriate materials. It’s got a lot of expensive details if it is a Repro, including the tiny diamonds between the five stones. These materials - matched old cuts and matched sapphires, tiny diamonds, are not cheap to obtain. 18k also strikes me as antique versus repro material. And the overall delicacy of the piece seems antique. I’m a novice though. If you will wear it often, check those prongs regularly. The wonky pongs are also period specific crafting.
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Haha I don’t know what this says about me but one of my most recurrent nightmares is about losing and breaking diamonds/gemstones!
 
I’d say 100% antique. Hand carved scrolls and single cuts in between the main stones.
 
Blingismything said:
I’d say 100% antique. Hand carved scrolls and single cuts in between the main stones.
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Maybe a newbie question but how can you tell it’s hand carved vs something like wax cast or is that all the same umbrella compared to modern casting?
 
I'm hazarding a guess of vintage, not antique.
The scroll work on the older rings is usually finely finished, deeper, with more pierce work. The scrolls were the star.


It's a great price for a very pretty ring that won't need any retipping. I'd do it.
 
Haha I knew I could count on yall to enable me! I’m gonna sleep on it and decide by the end of the week if it’s still available
 
FWIW I've bought from that vendor quite a few times and the listing has always accurately described the item. I've also returned a couple of things, and the customer service has always been timely and courteous.

Not sure which platform you accessed, but in case it's helpful their own website store has the longest return period (30 days).
 
marymm said:
FWIW I've bought from that vendor quite a few times and the listing has always accurately described the item. I've also returned a couple of things, and the customer service has always been timely and courteous.

Not sure which platform you accessed, but in case it's helpful their own website store has the longest return period (30 days).
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Yeah I’ve had numerous positive experiences with them as well as usually use the direct site.
 
The true Victorian rings of this ilk are English and will have appropriate English hallmarks inside. Any ring saying 18k or 750 is not likely of Victorian origin.
To my eye the setting seems cast not hand assembled. It just doesn’t have the finesse you expect of a true antique made ring. The gems may indeed be old but people put older gems into new settings and vice versa.
The centre diamond also just doesn’t seem the correct size for the ring. You wouldn’t expect a round old cut smaller than the two oval cut sapphires either side. They should all be rounds or ovals and the centre gem should be the largest size or at least the same size as the two alongside.
It could be vintage as opposed to antique and the centre diamond could be a replacement.
All that said, it is a great price for the ring as it is.
 
Thanks for all the input from everyone. I feel like I’m learning so much just from reading!

Yeah the relative sizes are wonky though I think I’m also generally attracted to wonky pieces sometimes. I think my brain finds things more convincingly “antique” if things are a bit imperfect and asymmetrical lol
 
I will also dutifully remind myself at this juncture, that I do NOT need another ring, ESPECIALLY if it's likely not an actual antique.

The bling hoarding part of my brain is like "but you don't have THIS kind of ring!"

972147
 
MakingTheGrade said:
I will also dutifully remind myself at this juncture, that I do NOT need another ring, ESPECIALLY if it's likely not an actual antique.

The bling hoarding part of my brain is like "but you don't have THIS kind of ring!"

972147
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Love your collection! How do you decide which one(s) to wear?
 
Bron357 said:
The true Victorian rings of this ilk are English and will have appropriate English hallmarks inside. Any ring saying 18k or 750 is not likely of Victorian origin.
To my eye the setting seems cast not hand assembled. It just doesn’t have the finesse you expect of a true antique made ring. The gems may indeed be old but people put older gems into new settings and vice versa.
The centre diamond also just doesn’t seem the correct size for the ring. You wouldn’t expect a round old cut smaller than the two oval cut sapphires either side. They should all be rounds or ovals and the centre gem should be the largest size or at least the same size as the two alongside.
It could be vintage as opposed to antique and the centre diamond could be a replacement.
All that said, it is a great price for the ring as it is.
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I think these points are great.

I didn’t notice at first but it does appear the center diamond might be a replacement as it’s slightly smaller than the basket perimeter. This doesn’t bother me but just saying.

After seeking out Victorian 5 stone rings (sapphire diamond ruby) I think this might be a vintage but not of the period piece. But I can’t be sure.

The true Victorian pieces have cleaner sharper smoother carved decorative details. For example I’ll post a couple:

 
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This is a very common style as you know. The price seems good for the carat weight. But the overall finish of the ring isn’t great. I also don’t think it’s true antique, but hard to say. I’ve seen many modern replicas of this style so I don’t think the style itself is a clue. I think if you pass on this one another will come along or you can increase the budget a bit and get a more finely made example.
 
ItsMainelyYou said:
I'm hazarding a guess of vintage, not antique.
The scroll work on the older rings is usually finely finished, deeper, with more pierce work. The scrolls were the star.


It's a great price for a very pretty ring that won't need any retipping. I'd do it.
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Yes I am in agreement about the decorative scrollwork being not as deep, crisp, etc. after seeking out Victorian 18k five stone pieces see the insta posts for example.
 
The style is so pretty and indeed you don’t have anything like it in your (omg so beautiful) collection! I’m sorry that I can’t be much help. I think the matched sapphires and old cuts are gorgeous, for what it’s worth!
MakingTheGrade said:
Maybe a newbie question but how can you tell it’s hand carved vs something like wax cast or is that all the same umbrella compared to modern casting?
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I am also very much a newbie so thank you for raising this interesting question! I love learning about clues revealing fabrication techniques. Would it be correct to suspect that the “graininess” of the surface (for example the area circled in the screenshot below) would be more suggestive of casting? My intuition would be that this canyon would be smoother and sharper if someone had instead taken a graver to cut into gold that had been drawn or forged first. Is that approximately what you experts are referring to? IMG_2376.jpeg
 
MiniMinerva said:
The style is so pretty and indeed you don’t have anything like it in your (omg so beautiful) collection! I’m sorry that I can’t be much help. I think the matched sapphires and old cuts are gorgeous, for what it’s worth!

I am also very much a newbie so thank you for raising this interesting question! I love learning about clues revealing fabrication techniques. Would it be correct to suspect that the “graininess” of the surface (for example the area circled in the screenshot below) would be more suggestive of casting? My intuition would be that this canyon would be smoother and sharper if someone had instead taken a graver to cut into gold that had been drawn or forged first. Is that approximately what you experts are referring to? IMG_2376.jpeg
Click to expand...

Yes (I’m not one of the experts) I totally think you point out details of a cast ring… very interesting!
 
LightBright said:
Yes (I’m not one of the experts) I totally think you point out details of a cast ring… very interesting!
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Oh to me you definitely are an expert! Look at the respective carving on the example you posted — smooth:
IMG_2388.jpeg
 
Calla-lilies said:
Love your collection! How do you decide which one(s) to wear?
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Sadly many of these don’t get worn enough. I should really try to downsize before I hoard more.
 
The other thing is that these rings tend to be much more expensive when they are finely made. This ring may be a vintage cast, but it's still a very nice, well made ring and an actual deal for the carat weight. In other words, who cares if it's true antique that's hand carved or not. Most won't notice and don't care. You could always have a jeweler take a tool to deepen and smooth the carving. I just don't think it matters at this price point.
 
Haha true. I’m definitely a beer budget situation. And the omcs seem genuine enough and I appreciate the attention to detail even if it is likely a cast reproduction like the little rose cuts inbetween. Hmmmm
 
I also agree that the issue of whether its cast or a carved antique is not a deal breaker at the price point. I suppose it depends on what your goals are for the piece, whether you want to save for a more refined piece etc etc

I do enjoy it as an academic discussion though! This is the kind of jewelry sleuthing I really enjoy.
 
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