4 carat MMD Brilliant Cushion

[swaye2010]

I was looking at this 4.02 carat J Si2 cushion for consideration. I could get it for really good price but I am not sure if it is cut well so I need a little help. It comes with an IGI certificate and I wasn’t having any luck going through the HCA but maybe that only applies to rounds?

I am trying to post a version of the cert that can be read but I might need to come back and manually write this in as it goes fuzzy when zooming...






Here is a short video:
https://imgur.com/a/U2vv6sP

 

[swaye2010]

Looks like the cert says:

Pavilion- 47%
Crown -14%
Table - 91%

9.20 mm x 9.00mm x 5.89 mm

Will need to get a better copy of the very tomorrow.

 

[denverappraiser]

HCA only applies to rounds.

You say it’s a good price. I’d love to hear the price but I’m curious. How did you decide it’s ‘good’?

 

[swaye2010]

HCA only applies to rounds.

You say it’s a good price. I’d love to hear the price but I’m curious. How did you decide it’s ‘good’?

This is through a family member’s company and he has recently been looking into MMD but hasn’t worked with them much. I could get it for around $7600 although he would like $9K. It seems like a good deal for this based on size, but if the diamond itself is not a great cut, it is still a lot to pay.

I know these larger MMD’s are not as common yet, so it is hard from a comparison sake. I have to check tomorrow but I think it is from a Japanese company and CVD. Not sure if HPHT is applied to enhance color though.

 

[denverappraiser]

As you've discovered, exact comps are a little hard to find in synthetics, especially with non-round cuts, but comps that are close are out there. Yes, $7600 is a very competitive price. $9k is still pretty reasonable.

The report says it's CVD. I'd believe it. At least so far, HPHT treatment of CVD stones doesn't seem to have much effect on the price. This may change at some point as it's become one of the talking points for the natural diamond folks. We'll see. In any case, I don't think there's any way for you to get this info if the manufacturer didn't supply it.

You don't have enough information to do any sort of useful analysis of the cut. As mentioned above, HCA doesn't apply but if you want to get into DIY cut grading, ask the seller if they have any more data. Good things would be a Sarine scan, ASET or Idealscope photos. Have you seen it in person? Do you have the opportunity to do so?

 

[swaye2010]

As you've discovered, exact comps are a little hard to find in synthetics, especially with non-round cuts, but comps that are close are out there. Yes, $7600 is a very competitive price. $9k is still pretty reasonable.

The report says it's CVD. I'd believe it. At least so far, HPHT treatment of CVD stones doesn't seem to have much effect on the price. This may change at some point as it's become one of the talking points for the natural diamond folks. We'll see. In any case, I don't think there's any way for you to get this info if the manufacturer didn't supply it.

You don't have enough information to do any sort of useful analysis of the cut. As mentioned above, HCA doesn't apply but if you want to get into DIY cut grading, ask the seller if they have any more data. Good things would be a Sarine scan, ASET or Idealscope photos. Have you seen it in person? Do you have the opportunity to do so?

I would probably have to order and pay for the stone and have it sent to the jeweler for evaluation. I was told it was CVD only without the HPHT to improve color. I have not been able to find any real comparable and with the information supplied, there is no way to tell unless looking at the stone in person. I think I might look into a 3 carat round as well because the face up size would be about the same and I wouldn’t have to deal with such a deep stone.

I think the 3 carat’s are in the $5000 and the 2 carats are in the $4000 area so considering, they are still good value. This is not my engagement ring but just another ring to wear on occasion. The stones are coming from Mumbai and since it is IGI, I know that they could be much warmer and lower clarity than what is stated on the certificate. All things to consider...

 

[denverappraiser]

IGI calls it CVD but doesn't mention treatment at all. That's not exactly the same as saying it's untreated. Now that I think about it, I don't recall ever seeing one where they called a stone CVD with HPHT treatment, not that it matters to most people. I'd be curious where your seller got their information and how confident they are.

 

[xxxxxx]

@swaye2010 the prices you are quoting seem very competitive! They are wholesale prices right?

 

[swaye2010]

IGI calls it CVD but doesn't mention treatment at all. That's not exactly the same as saying it's untreated. Now that I think about it, I don't recall ever seeing one where they called a stone CVD with HPHT treatment, not that it matters to most people. I'd be curious where your seller got their information and how confident they are.

So the 4 carat cushion I linked is coming from Mumbai. I am told that it is CVD only. I am still trying to understand what this all means when it comes to lab diamonds but I thought that some CVD stones had HPHT treatment done to it to improve the color grade?

There are also a few moissanite companies that people have been ordering from over on the Fabulous Fashion Jewelry thread. I am hoping the links work correctly to the Alibaba page but they are advertising 3 carat rounds that look like they are HPHT lab diamonds. The jeweler I mentioned earlier ordered a 1 carat from them and it was supposed to be ‘F’ Excellent cut VS2. It was evaluated by a GIA gemologist and they said it was closer to an ‘I’ very good cut, VS2. With the IGI certificates being a lot more liberal with the grading of lab diamonds, it is hard to know if these are good value. I guess that is the question I am after. Buying through a US company means that there are more likely to match their grade (I assume) but the prices are also double compared to buying a stone direct from a company.

Check out this product on Alibaba App Wholesale Polished Gemstone Lab Grown CVD HPHT 3 Carat Diamond Round Diamond
https://f2rq3.app.goo.gl/?link=http...ibi=com.alibaba.sourcing&isi=503451073&amv=69

@swaye2010 the prices you are quoting seem very competitive! They are wholesale prices right?

I think for the 4 carat, the retail was something like $9K but I am seeing the 3 carats in the $5500 range either from India or China. I just can’t speak to the quality yet.

 

[denverappraiser]

I would not trust Alibaba for one second if you don’t otherwise find the seller to be credible.

GIA isn’t a serious player in the grading of synthetics. IGI and GCAL are virtually the whole market. That IGI report is from Belgium even if the current owner is in Mumbai. If you don’t trust them, don’t rely on them, but trying to apply a conversion factor is a mistake.

My understanding is that virtually all CVD diamonds above very tiny have been HPHT processed for color. That’s why I’m curious about the source of the info. I can’t test it and IGI won’t, or at least didn’t. That data is coming from somewhere else. As a side note, I’m told that this is one of the reasons Lightbox stones are a little bit cheaper. They’re small and they’ve eliminated one of the manufacturing steps.

Moissanite is a completely different product. It’s irrelevant.

 

[OoohShiny]

In terms of the stone above, as ASETscope image would be useful in terms of understanding light performance and cut quality/consistency.

I'm no expert (!!) but I am not that keen on the performance of the stone at tilt/rotation angles. You see how it goes see-through when the stone is towards the side in the video? If I understand things correctly, that is 'windowing' and could mean you can see your finger through the stone rather than it reflecting light back when at that angle.

It does look quite good to me at other angles, though, and it seems pretty clean for an SI2 stone.


The price seems very reasonable for the size, as already noted. That's the sort of pricing I'd like to be more common! lol