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4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pics*

simon.phinox

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May 18, 2011
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ALCON,

I recent came into possesion of a 4.62 ctw, OEC high quailty broch. Understanding the deamands of this current style, I had it appraised at two geographically seperate appraisers (Dallas and Los Angels.) Both of them came back with very similar results but their monitary value was very different. Will you look at the individual diamond specilifcs and let you know what you think.

4.62tcw, 11 high quality OEC cut diamonds in a rose color broach.

1.01 F/G VS2
.77 G VS2
.76 G VS1
.52 G/H VS2
.51 G VS2
.25 G/H SI2
.23 F VS2
.20 G/H VS2
.19 H SI1
.10 G VS2
.08 G VS1

I know it is a hard guess but the two jewlers came back at:
1) $21,3992.00
2) $15,988.99

What do you think? Why are the numbers so all over the place?

Thanks for your help and insight.

~tge

Diamond Brooch copy.jpg
 

MissStepcut

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

What will you do with the information? If you attempt to sell it, I don't think you'll get anywhere near either price. Brooches aren't in style anymore (when is the last time you saw a woman wearing one?) so if it had to be dismantled for the diamonds and then the diamonds sold, I don't think you'd get $15k after selling them off.
 

Gypsy

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Wow. I'm drooling I'd take the five largest and re-set them into a ring. NUMMY!

There are a lot of high quality old cut pieces on ebay and they are priced accordingly. Most of the time though, the ones that come closest to the retail price of these pieces are listed by sellers that also have a brick and mortar store... like an antique jewelry store. Otherwise, you don't get high prices for vintage and antique pieces.

That means your best bet is to find the NICEST shop that consigns similar items near you... and consign with them. Set the price at what you both agree too and depending on where the shop is located.

If you are just wondering what to insure it for... I'd pick a number between the two appraisals.
 

slg47

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

I'm not sure what to say except that this is an amazing piece :)
 

MissGotRocks

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

It is a truly beautiful piece - love those high colors! I think some of the other suggestions of consignment are good - asking price would probably be suggested by the person taking it in. Unfortunate that it is in a broach - that's a piece that in and of itself would be difficult to sell. Try sending some pics to JBEG and others to see what their take is on it. The stones look gorgeous though - wow!
 

SB621

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

I think a really important point to make is that when you had it appraised did you indidacate you wanted to sell the piece. Most appraisers inflat prices so if you loose the piece or if something happens to it you can have it replaced. I have been told several times the appraisal price is always much higher then what it is actually worth.

Perhaps some of the PS appraisers could chime in on this one?
 

yssie

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Wow. What a beautiful piece :love: :love: :love:
 

denverappraiser

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Hi Simon,

Actually, these value conclusions aren’t as different as you think and I would be surprised if either one of them is describing what they think you could get for the piece on resale. The ‘typical’ appraisal is estimating the undiscounted retail price locally. There are other definitons of 'value' that are quite different and not all stores use the same pricing approach. With unusual items like this there’s an additional qualifier. Most stores don’t sell things like this and those that do don’t do very well with them so comps for replacement can be tricky. That’s about the fashion thing mentioned above. They can ask $20k, or $10k or $50k, but getting it is an entirely different matter. Also as mentioned above, some stores do a LOT better with this kind of goods than others but I'm guessing this wasn't the question at hand for either appraiser. They’re providing an upper limit for what would be appropriate funding to replace the piece in the case of a loss. That’s going to be a tough item to replace under any circumstances but one of them is being more conservative than the other.

How to choose between the two is to talk to the appraisers, examine their qualifications and their methodology. Pick one and ignore the other. Don't average. If you’re asking for a different sort of value (like resale value), ask them THAT rather than trying to do some sort of conversion.
 

simon.phinox

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Sorry if I was not clear in my line of questioning. I am not looking to sell the piece as a whole, rather I was really captivated by it when it came up for auction. It has some serious fire to it when displayed outdoors. I agree, broaches are very out of fashion but I am serious thinking about cutting it down to make some earrings for my mother.

My question is more along the lines of value, not RE-SALE as a whole but the replacement or cost to buy something similar on today's market... When I took the piece to the two separate jewelers it was more to determine color, and clarity... I was just thrown off by how different jewelers but the piece in $$$$$.

I will say, both jewelry houses were shocked at the high quality and striking similarity (or near matching) of the diamonds. I would of thought this would pay increase their (the diamonds only) total value but then again, I was educated in South Carolina and am very often incorrect....

Thoughts? I really want to break it down to make ear-rings for my mom. I see no point in having stones like this and them never being worn. Like owning a Ferrari but never taking it out of the garage...
 

denverappraiser

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

A good place to start is with what you paid. That's a recent arms length transaction in a public market on that very item. Some seller consigned it to the auction house, who did their darnedest to get as much as possible for them (auction houses are commission salespeople who are working on behalf of the SELLER. There's nothing wrong with that but it's important to remember as a buyer that the whole auction thing is a somewhat expensive show put on for the benefit of driving prices UP, not down). Somethimes things end up in the wrong auction, the wrong buyers show up that day, or you just get lucky but live auction comps are usually pretty good, if only as a way of estimating dealer costs.
 

Begonia

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Just a quick thought; ask your Mom if she would wear the brooch. My Mum would have worn that in a heartbeat! :bigsmile:

(She passed away a while back ;( , but was very much a brooch wearer).
 

simon.phinox

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Well I am just trying to gauge if I wanted to replace these diamonds.... What kind of numbers would I be looking at?

Paid $1,400 at a federal auction
 

denverappraiser

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

simon said:
Well I am just trying to gauge if I wanted to replace these diamonds.... What kind of numbers would I be looking at?

Paid $1,400 at a federal auction


Hmm. So you've got a 31% differential between the two appraisals and an 1500% differential with the only known comparable sale. THAT seems like the thing to be talking to your appraisers about. No doubt the seller told you that it's because it was a great bargain or a foolish seller, and maybe it was, but the bidder behind you, who was probably a dealer, decided to stop at $1399 and let it go home with you. Why? There's more to this story than you've found so far. Again, talk to your appraiser(s) about it. They've seen the piece in person, they've researched the appropriate marketplace, they are presumably experts, and you hired them to give you professional advice. Use it.
 

simon.phinox

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

It was purchased pre sale at a US Marshal's seizure auction house- no other bidders... Because of my job and position I can buy a FEW items each year prior to them going to the block....I choose to roll the dice on this piece. There is a little more to it but that is the main gist.... I am just trying to gauge how special having these diamonds are, in this cut, this color and similar clarity and being so close in character... I thought that would be reflected by the appraisal price but that only served to confuse me more.... Sorry to make this more complicated that it was
 

LGK

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

If you're planning on taking it apart- first, I'd try to preserve the setting. It's definitely not in style (sadly, as it's *gorgeous*) but saving a piece of history like that would be worthwhile IMO.

Then, I'd get the earrings you end up with reappraised. By a local appraiser who is familiar with antique cuts. This last bit is important. Colorless or near-colorless antique diamonds are pretty rare- most are lower color. And not all appraisers are familiar with antique cuts.

Honestly, it seems like a screaming deal to *me* :bigsmile:.

And indeed, getting two different values from two different appraisers is not that odd. It's hard to pin an exact price on a unique antique item. The truest value is what someone was willing to pay for it IRL, most recently- that would be you, and what you paid. Personally, I'd say you could sell the loose stones for a heck of a lot more (though I'm glad that's not your intention) but pricing antiques is hardly an exact science, and you can *ask* whatever you want- getting someone else to pay that is a whole other thing, for sure- and an item like this where some awesome stones are stuck in a very out of fashion setting, that makes the waters even muddier.

If you're keeping the stones, really I'd just get the diamonds appraised when reset for insurance purposes and forget about the numbers. They're utterly academic at this point- you're not planning to sell, or anything like that. You will need a new appraisal anyway I'm pretty sure for your insurance once they're reset.
 

MissStepcut

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

I think you got a freaking STEAL, and should go ahead and break it down into earrings, or a band, or sit on it and pat yourself on the back for a great score!
 

denverappraiser

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

I"m not trying to be obtuse. I get it. I don't discuss prices on things I haven't seen, especially when the pricing you're getting is coming from a professional appraiser who HAS seen it. They're the ones you should be talking to about the 'value' topic and a 31% differential between the two is NOT the heart of the issue.

Matching isn't a big deal with this sort of thing. They're reported to be G/VS's, which are a bit unusual in Euros, but given that, I"m not surprised that they match pretty well. It's entirely possible that they did consider this in their value conclusion. Not to sound like a broken record but did you ask?
 

pixgirl

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

I think it would be sad to destroy a piece as lovely as that. A brooch like that never goes out of style and I'd wear it every day of the week!
 

LD

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

simon said:
It was purchased pre sale at a US Marshal's seizure auction house- no other bidders... Because of my job and position I can buy a FEW items each year prior to them going to the block....I choose to roll the dice on this piece. There is a little more to it but that is the main gist.... I am just trying to gauge how special having these diamonds are, in this cut, this color and similar clarity and being so close in character... I thought that would be reflected by the appraisal price but that only served to confuse me more.... Sorry to make this more complicated that it was


It's not impossible to buy diamonds that are a good match - even old ones. Does that increase the price? Not by much because your average person on the street won't be able to tell them apart even if they're NOT a good match!

The price you paid is great. You may be able to re-sell it for a bit more but it's highly unlikely you'll achieve the inflated appraisal values. You'll also have to find a buyer and, because it's a brooch, it will have a more limited attraction. People may buy it to tear it apart to make another piece but would they pay $15k to do that? Unlikely.

Have at look here and you'll see lots of old cut diamonds. http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/ If you click on Old Europeans at the top and then go to page 12 you'll see two that are .70ct one is G/VS1 and the other is H/VS1 being sold for $3,281 and $2,823. These are reasonably similar to your second and third largest diamonds would sell for. I've repeated the exercise for all your diamonds and have come up with a total price of $18k but this really is only a ballpark! Don't forget that you have a large amount of diamonds and people are unlikely to want to pay the selling price for each and every one of the diamonds so you'd need to factor that in and discount the piece.

Erica Grace and Pearlmans accept consignments I believe and you could ask them for their opinion. That would give you a much more realistic idea of what it may sell for.
 

Gypsy

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

simon said:
Well I am just trying to gauge if I wanted to replace these diamonds.... What kind of numbers would I be looking at?

Paid $1,400 at a federal auction


OMG. OMG. OMG.

Where is this auction and how often? I need a plane ticket and my credit card.

About earrings.

PERSONALLY-- I'd make earrings out of all the stones but the center. I'd do three stone earrings. Either put that center stone in a ring with the smallest side stones with it (OMG that would be to die for) or make a from them pendant or sell it to ME-- I mean.. consign it with JBEG (so I can buy it from them) :Up_to_something:
 

slg47

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Gypsy|1316571458|3021831 said:
simon said:
Well I am just trying to gauge if I wanted to replace these diamonds.... What kind of numbers would I be looking at?

Paid $1,400 at a federal auction


OMG. OMG. OMG.

Where is this auction and how often? I need a plane ticket and my credit card.

About earrings.

PERSONALLY-- I'd make earrings out of all the stones but the center. I'd do three stone earrings. Either put that center stone in a ring with the smallest side stones with it (OMG that would be to die for) or make a from them pendant or sell it to ME-- I mean.. consign it with JBEG (so I can buy it from them) :Up_to_something:

yeah, can you split it up and then lots of us will buy the stones :) you could make earrings for at least 3 of us :razz:

if you want to get a replacement value for insurance then tell the appraiser that is what you are looking for (replacement value).
 

simon.phinox

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

well I followed the advice of some of your members and spoke to my mother about it. pretty glad I did. She's is not a fan of Diamond Earrings... She wants some tanzanite I got a few months ago in Arusha (Pics Attached)....

I know this is not a forum to sell things but if someone would want the piece please PM me. I would rather it be worn and enjoyed by someone in this community who knows what it means.

There is some historical significance with this piece (nothing bad or cursed) but I would rather not get into it over an open forum.

I saw this piece and thought for sure my mum would of loved to have an earrings as such. I was wrong.

If nothing comes from the suggestions you make to me or offer off. I am honestly leaning toward cutting it up and selling it individually. I know it is bad proper forum but I can't really wear a broach like this on my shoulder gun rig... It would just send the wrong message.

~tge

DSC_1326.jpg

DSC_1071.JPG
 

slg47

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

there are no PMs on this forum, although I suspect several PSers are interested in the piece. If you want to sell it perhaps try consigning with jewels by erica grace? they specialize in antique cuts.
 

simon.phinox

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

I hate to be the bearer of bad news....

I took the piece to high end jewelry store in Dallas this morning to determine costs and pros/cons of possibly breaking the piece up. Their lead in house fabricator noticed some markings on the inside of the clasp and suggested I take it to one of the large jewelry houses located in the same mall.

Well bottom line, the broach is a antique prestige piece. This was after hours of vetted and coordinating with some personnel in New York.... Once the piece was validated the jewelry house became very interested in broach because of its condition and their own internal documented history. They made an on the spot, very considerable offer to which I most graciously accepted (there are a few minor details that have to be worked out over the next few days)....

I know numerous people were following what direction I went with this piece so I thought I would let you know how it shaped up... I just happened to stumble on something that was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

BUT more than anything. I cant thank you, the members of PriceScope, enough because if was not for you... I would not of even known about the gravity of "European Cut Diamonds."

Thanks so much from a very happy Guy in TX!
 

denverappraiser

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

It's a branded piece that you had appraised TWICE by independent appraisers and neither one of them spotted it! Yikes. On behalf of the appraisal industry I apologize. We all make mistakes but two appraisers making the same mistake independently is a serious stroke of bad luck if you hired reasonably qualified appraisers. That's a significant oversight, for reasons that you just discovered.
 

canuk-gal

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

HI:

Cool story bro! Glad it will stay intact. BTW, buy Lotto!!!!!!! :appl:

cheers--Sharon
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

Wow! I love these stories but it is only in my dreams that I'd be so lucky! Next time use Neil for the appraiser, though! :bigsmile:
 

slg47

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Re: 4.62TCW OEC Diamond Broach, Value Question & Opinion *Pi

simon said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news....

I took the piece to high end jewelry store in Dallas this morning to determine costs and pros/cons of possibly breaking the piece up. Their lead in house fabricator noticed some markings on the inside of the clasp and suggested I take it to one of the large jewelry houses located in the same mall.

Well bottom line, the broach is a antique prestige piece. This was after hours of vetted and coordinating with some personnel in New York.... Once the piece was validated the jewelry house became very interested in broach because of its condition and their own internal documented history. They made an on the spot, very considerable offer to which I most graciously accepted (there are a few minor details that have to be worked out over the next few days)....

I know numerous people were following what direction I went with this piece so I thought I would let you know how it shaped up... I just happened to stumble on something that was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

BUT more than anything. I cant thank you, the members of PriceScope, enough because if was not for you... I would not of even known about the gravity of "European Cut Diamonds."

Thanks so much from a very happy Guy in TX!

wow!! when all of the details are worked out can you share what jewelry house it is from?
 
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