4.59 OEC - Yay or nay!

[valmanin]

I added this to my other thread but I think it must have gotten buried so I am posting a new thread for it. This is another option that a local jeweler found. It is a STRETCH for our budget but we would consider it and only send 2 of our 3 kids to college. Kidding Seriously, though I would like to know if you all think it is worth considering? If we are really interested he will bring it in for us to look at.

4.59
L (EGL)
VS2
10.6 x 10.8 x 6.47
55% table
60% depth

 

[SB621]

What is the asking price if you feel comfortable sharing?

Can you get any more pictures of diamond dead on? Perhaps in natural lightening? It is hard to tell because the pictures aren't fantastic. It definitely looks like it has more color from the side then the top down. it also looks fairly symmterical with a good spread but I'm not an expert at all with OEC's as I prefer antique cushions or OMC's. I hope Dreamer sees this as I think she has a fantastic eye for OECs and facet patterns!

 

[valmanin]

Hi Sarahbear! I did ask for more pictures and/or a video and I specified outside. He said he would see if he could get some. I am not counting on it though. I wouldn't mind discussing price if I get a little further along, but first I want to know if it's worth pursuing, kwim? I will say it seems priced fairly for the specs.

 

[heididdl]

please don't be mad but its really yellow......

 

[Dreamer_D]

It has a lab report. Its an EGL L color which means anywhere from an L to O-P by GIA. We cannot judge that from phots you need to see it in person.

My spidey sense tell me the faceting is great and it will be really sparkly. I think it is likely an early ideal cut like mine and Demelzas!

 

[SB621]

It has a lab report. Its an EGL L color which means anywhere from an L to O-P by GIA. We cannot judge that from phots you need to see it in person.

My spidey sense tell me the faceting is great and it will be really sparkly. I think it is likely an early ideal cut like mine and Demelzas!

As far as I'm concerned when Dreamer gives you this smiley--------> then it is DEFINITELY worth persuing

 

[SB621]

Hi Sarahbear! I did ask for more pictures and/or a video and I specified outside. He said he would see if he could get some. I am not counting on it though. I wouldn't mind discussing price if I get a little further along, but first I want to know if it's worth pursuing, kwim? I will say it seems priced fairly for the specs.

I would also ask about a return period. Make sure you really love it before you commit. My only concern is the color might bother you- or it might not. It might actually look much whiter in natural light. My antique cushion is GIA O/P (appraiser not report) and I personally love the antique lace color. So just make sure you don't mind the lower color in real life too.

 

[valmanin]

It has a lab report. Its an EGL L color which means anywhere from an L to O-P by GIA. We cannot judge that from phots you need to see it in person.

My spidey sense tell me the faceting is great and it will be really sparkly. I think it is likely an early ideal cut like mine and Demelzas!

Are you seriously serious??? (as my son would say) Like YOUR beautiful dream of a stone? Okay, well I know you didn't say cut AS WELL as yours but to be in the ballpark!

So, you don't think the darkness in the center facets is a bad case of obstruction?

Dreamer, thank you!!! I am getting just a little excited! Okay maybe a lot!

Now to figure out if we could swing it...

 

[valmanin]

I would also ask about a return period. Make sure you really love it before you commit. My only concern is the color might bother you- or it might not. It might actually look much whiter in natural light. My antique cushion is GIA O/P (appraiser not report) and I personally love the antique lace color. So just make sure you don't mind the lower color in real life too.

My local jeweler will have it brought in for us to look at if we are seriously interested so we would get to see it without having to purchase and do shipping etc. I really don't think the color will bother me. I LOVE your antique cushion and the O/P is lovely. I really love the gamut of colors in the old cuts from Haven and Ganesha's lower colors to Dreamers whiter stone...of course that is in pictures. I have seen a GIA M/N in person and thought it was great! But, yes I agree I need to see it in natural light etc.

 

[valmanin]

Which brings me to...

PRICE!!!

What do you all think a fair price would be for this stone? I am not expecting an ebay steal, but what do you think would be reasonable? I will divulge the price but I want to hear what you all think off the top of your heads before that.

So you don't have to scroll up. Assuming the stats are all correct:

4.59 L (EGL), VS2
10.6 x 10.8

 

[stci]

IMO It's not an OEC with a 55% table.

 

[GemFever]

I don't know about fair price, but for comps...

GOG has one of the most beautiful OECs I've ever seen (or at least it photographs beautifully) listed right now, 5cts, the color described as "warm" (U-V range), SI1... $42K

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140/

OWD has stones that are a bit smaller but whiter, listed in the $45K range...

 

[valmanin]

IMO It's not an OEC with a 55% table.

Really? I know it's a larger table, but I didn't realize that could make it NOT an OEC...hmmm

 

[GemFever]

IMO It's not an OEC with a 55% table.

Really? I know it's a larger table, but I didn't realize that could make it NOT an OEC...hmmm

It may not be a "classic" OEC, but as Dreamer said, it could be an early ideal cut, or a tranny.

 

[anne_h]

Faceting looks promising. Color looks fairly warm, but if you are okay with that, then no issue. Definitely worth bringing in to see, IMO. Especially if there is no penalty for doing so.

Keep us posted!

Anne

 

[iheartscience]

I think it looks promising for sure-I would ask the jeweler to call it in! I have a 2 carat Q OEC and I love the color. It actually faces up quite white in a lot of lighting, and when it doesn't it's a pretty ivory color.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, for me looking at those pictures I can see signs of optical symmetry in the cut and I can see what looks like arrows. I think if the stone was photographed properly -- with light coming from behind it and the camera further away -- then it might show big fatty arrows. The table size and depth are in line with early ideal cuts, and the crown angle looks a little steeper than an MRB but not too steep. It may not look as organized as my diamond, it depends on how symmetric the faceting is and how well the angles all line up, but I still think it is the same flavour as mine. The semi-profile suggests the patterning may be a little more random than mine. If I was shopping, based on those photos, it is a stone I would want to consider further and see in person. The question that I cannot quite see from those photos is the details of the under-table faceting -- if the lower halves are long enough you will have a good active under-table with no regular obstruction (not that camera obstruction in those photos). But I can't quite tell. But I am optimistic. Worth more information. I would ask the seller for a picture in natural lighting by a window with no flash, looking right into the stone's face. NATURAL lighting and no flash! That will show the faceting better. And a video would help too. I'd try for at least a bunch more photos before moving forward, just to try and confirm my impressions based on those poor photos.

The darkness in those photos don't bother me -- see how the whole stone is dark? To me that is a sign that the person has a big huge camera really close to the stone. That is not typically the type of darkness you get with a poorly cut stone. Below is what a poorly cut stone looks like when photographed like that. See how the outer facets are lit up but the under table is really dark? The center is eating the light and what light there IS escapes out the crown making the outer edges bright. I would rather see a stone like in the photos you posted where the whole face is dark like that in an even manner -- which suggests the looming camera -- over a stone with strange patterns of darkness like the stone below, or stones with fish eye.

 

[valmanin]

I would ask the seller for a picture in natural lighting by a window with no flash, looking right into the stone's face. NATURAL lighting and no flash! That will show the faceting better. And a video would help too. I'd try for at least a bunch more photos before moving forward, just to try and confirm my impressions based on those poor photos.

The darkness in those photos don't bother me -- see how the whole stone is dark? To me that is a sign that the person has a big huge camera really close to the stone. That is not typically the type of darkness you get with a poorly cut stone. Below is what a poorly cut stone looks like when photographed like that. See how the outer facets are lit up but the under table is really dark? The center is eating the light and what light there IS escapes out the crown making the outer edges bright. I would rather see a stone like in the photos you posted where the whole face is dark like that in an even manner -- which suggests the looming camera -- over a stone with strange patterns of darkness like the stone below, or stones with fish eye.

Done! I emailed the jeweler with those requests. I don't want them to spend time/money shipping a diamond when I (or...ahem...Dreamer) could easily rule it in/out based on a few more well taken photos and video. We will see! I hope they are willing to do that.

Yes, I see the difference now that you point it out.

Seriously, I just have to comment here on this. Dreamer, you are truly gifted at not only evaluating a stone based on a few crappy pics, but also in communicating your thoughts in a way that a novice can understand. I am blown away every time I read one of your posts at your talent. I know you are a working mom (you have mentioned it in other posts) and I hope whatever your work is uses this gift you have. I truly appreciate the time you give to the PS community. You are one of a kind! Where is the emoticon for bowing down??? Can't find it. Okay, this will have to do

 

[valmanin]

So, I can't stop looking at pictures of this stone even if they are not very good. I am really drawn to it.

BUT, not sure I want to give up the small crown/high table combo. I really love the profile of PSers stones like fortekitty, Missy, hippi pixi, and many others. For some reason when I look at the profile picture of this one it doesn't look like a MRB. The crown looks higher to me, but I suppose it must be an illusion because mathematically if the table is 55% (which incidentally it doesn't look like that to me either)...well, you get the point.

Does anyone on here have this style old cut in the 3-5 carat range? I would love to get an idea of what that looks like...

 

[backwardsandinheels]

Just to keep you busy, there are some good threads under "steep/deep" shallow/deep" etc. where the trade evaluates examples of both and shows all kinds of groovy charts. Just for your edumacation. What they mainly point out is that cutters used to do things the best they could until tools, technology and standards began, then more technology, then more standards, electrical lighting most places, etc.
Times change and cuts and technology and what is perceived as beautiful, or an "excellent cut" changed. People have tossed out perfectly beautiful diamonds because it didn't fit a certain parameter, and could also have saved themselves some cash. There are goalposts, but they do get moved from time to time. As always, trust your eyes.

 

[valmanin]

Just to keep you busy, there are some good threads under "steep/deep" shallow/deep" etc. where the trade evaluates examples of both and shows all kinds of groovy charts. Just for your edumacation. What they mainly point out is that cutters used to do things the best they could until tools, technology and standards began, then more technology, then more standards, electrical lighting most places, etc.
Times change and cuts and technology and what is perceived as beautiful, or an "excellent cut" changed. People have tossed out perfectly beautiful diamonds because it didn't fit a certain parameter, and could also have saved themselves some cash. There are goalposts, but they do get moved from time to time. As always, trust your eyes.

Thanks! I will check it out!

Surely, someone on here has a large OEC/tranny with similar dimensions?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wow, thank you for the kind words Of course, everything I say is just how I personally consider and evaluate OECs. Many others have totally different methods that are equally valid and you should consider other opinions. As to work, I am a university professor so I think my job does let me do the things I like to do: gather evidence and form theories, communicate ideas to students/novices... etc. Both my diamond hobby and my work are very personally fulfilling!

As to big stones with similar cut...

This one has a similar look to it IMO. Same table, similar looking lower halves. This JBEG stone looks like it may have a higher crown and its extra depth is creating a slight bit of leakage that I don't see in the photos of the diamond you are considerig. But the flavour seems similar to me:

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/356ct-Loose-Old-European-Cut/19804036_Qxwpx5#!i=1556511305&k=CmXtKxG

This one also seems to have a similar flavour. Similar table but shallower than the one you are considering.

[URL='http://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/3-55-k-oec-belated-pics-t179915-30.html']http://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/3-55-k-oec-belated-pics-t179915-30.html[/URL]

Both of the above examples have moderate optical symmatry leading to a slightly "disorganized" look to the faceting. I can't tell whether yours has moderate or excellent optical symmatry. If its really great symmetry it could look a little like Demelza's, which is 8.5mm and has a 50% table and 59% depth (I think). Its amazeballs in person. But I am pretty sure the stone you are considering is less "perfect" in its optical symmetry -- it likely won't have such precise arrows. But the crowns and table are similar.

Dem's stone is on the right. See how you can see dark "paddles" at the end of the arrows under the crown? I feel like I can see hints of that in the diamond you are considering, though I don't think yours will have such precise arrows and I think hers has longer lower halves (splits up the central facets with the junctions between arrows).

 

[missy]

Love those pictures of your and Demelza's diamonds Dreamer. Swoon!!

I think your stone has potential valmanin but you definitely need to get more pictures so hopefully the seller will come through with those.

One of my concerns would be the color and that is really something you need to see in person. I never in a million years thought I would be OK with an L color but I am in fact more than OK with it-it's perfect IMO for my OEC. But that's because it faces up white. No hint of color under most situations and even at work where the walls are an ugly creamy beige and the lights are horrid fluorescent the diamond still looks white and bright. Albeit a soft white but so pretty. I think because it is such a bright stone that it appears as white as it does but I don't know for sure that is the reason. Just my guess. My jewelers in Lambertville call diamonds that are DEF etc in color "bitchy" white LOL. I sort of understand what they mean haha. Though I think "bitchy" white in modern cuts is gorgeous I love the lower colors in old cuts more.

Just not sure how low I would personally like and that is why I think if this stone turns out to be as promising as it first seems it would be prudent to see it up close and personal. Just to see how the color appears in all different lighting circumstances as well as the faceting. Does it stay bright and lively most (hopefully all) of the time.

I wish you lots of luck and hope this stone turns out to be as good as it initially appears!

 

[valmanin]

Wow! Dreamer and Demelza! Just wow!

So, a professor huh? That totally makes sense. Lucky students too!

Thanks for the pics of similar stones. That really helps. In fact, I have admired that JBEG 3.56 for while now...it's so unique!

I actually think I could really like this style. Not sure if I would be missing the checkerboard type faceting and small table/high crown. I guess I would just need to see it in person.

Missy, thanks for taking a look! That is hysterical about the "bitchy" color diamond! I totally get that somehow! In fact my ER is a bitchy RB. I guess that is why I feel comfortable going lower in color. I already have the brighty whitey in a totally different style. I want the eggshell, ecru, lace, off white color of the mid to lower colors. For some reason the pics of this stone does not make me think yellow or VERY tinted, but I take what you all are saying very seriously. It may be too tinted when I see it in person.

 

[valmanin]

Just got word that my jeweler has been promised more pics and possibly a video. Fingers crossed that the pics and video help in making the decision.

So, I would love to know what you all think of $35K for this diamond (does not include setting). At this time, while discussing price, I have to assume that the diamond wows me etc. Otherwise I wouldn't pay anything for it. But, I would like to start thinking about price. Not a lot of comps I can find. Is $35K overpriced, retail priced, or a bargain?

 

[hippi_pixi]

can't wait to see more pictures and video. personally i don't think you can pass up an opportunity to see the stone in person.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have no sense of the value of diamond so large, so best to look on OWD and JBEG and mayse 1stdibs.com for comparables?

I love that setting, don't leave it behind!

 

[derbygal]

I am drooling over this ring! Hope it is to your liking and that it ends up on your finger!

 

[valmanin]

I have no sense of the value of diamond so large, so best to look on OWD and JBEG and mayse 1stdibs.com for comparables?

I love that setting, don't leave it behind!

The setting is $4500 which seems awfully pricey to me, but maybe I have not idea of how much antique settings are.

I will keep looking for comps!

 

[valmanin]

I am drooling over this ring! Hope it is to your liking and that it ends up on your finger!

Aw...thanks derbygal! I hope so too! A few hurdles to go...