37* Crown Angle an issue?

[statestreetk]

Hi,

As far as I can tell a potential 1.7ct EGL USA diamond I'd like to buy is cut "EGL very good" only due to it's crown angle. Only inclusion is at the 2 oclock location in video and wWill this be an issue? What effect will this have?

Table: 59%
Crown Height: 15.8%
Total Depth: 62.9%
Crown Angle: 37*
Pavilion Angle: 40.4*
Pavilion Depth: 42.4%

Symmetry: Very Good
Polish: Excellent

link to EGL USA report: https://imgur.com/a/R1kib

used as reference for grading:
http://www.diamondsourceva.com/education/cut/diamonds-egl-cut-grade.asp

 

[rockysalamander]

Yes. It is a big problem. Please don't buy this diamond. Post your budget and wants and let us help.

 

[statestreetk]

This diamond was $10k which was under my max budget of $13k.

Can you explain why this is a big problem?

 

[partgypsy]

When I put it in the HCA, I get a 2.8 - which is actually, not horrible. It is def outside the ideal range. But it's not a dog. And isn't it easier to recut these kind of diamonds than shallow ones? I myself if I was spending that kind of money, would want a GIA or AGS report.
This is what HCA says:
Light Return
Very Good
Fire
Very Good
Scintillation
Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight
Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

 

[rockysalamander]

The video shows a diamond with a consistently dark center. Also, I'm confused how this diamond could even achieve a VG from EGL, see chart below. By their own rating system, this would be below a VG. That aside, we know that EGL are soft on color. So, this is somewhere between H and J based on my experience using GIA ratings.

Edited to add: How can it be a SI1 with a clean plot? It must have giant clouds. Are there any notations on the right side of the paperwork?

If you really want to pursue this diamonds, ask for an ASET image (or buy your own). That will show you the volume of light return. I'll be happy to be found wrong in my judgement.



https://www.eglusa.com/images/pdf/cut-grade-diamond-report-cover-interior.pdf

Here are the guidelines we recommend for GIA stones (and we generally only look at GIA and AGS).
These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.
table: 52-57.5 (but I really prefer under 57)
depth: 60-62.3 {consider 59.5)
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

On color, has the intended recipient seen GIA graded stones? Have they expressed a color preference? That will make a big difference in the cost.

 

[rockysalamander]

Within your budget, here are some options that would be worth pursuing. I prioritized size, so these are I and J color (which is what an EGL H would grade at by GIA).

From JA, you can request up to 3 IS (idealscope) images per email. WF ACA and HPD are superideals and have all the images you need online. To keep in your budget at near 2 carat, I dropped to J and I color.

J color
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947720.htm {super-ideal with perfect light return. Inclusion in center eye-clean. Love this one}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-
4198154 {the major inclusions on the girdle should be covered by a prong. Need an IS}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3434323 {inclusions on the girdle are not terribly visible, but should be covered by a prong. Good numbers. Need an IS}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4297775 {great numbers with a small table. Good clarity. Good IS images}
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/v/024126808 {Good ASET, good symmetry.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7742

I color
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3941374.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3636386.htm

 

[TreeScientist]

Within your budget, here are some options that would be worth pursuing. I prioritized size, so these are I and J color (which is what an EGL H would grade at by GIA).

From JA, you can request up to 3 IS (idealscope) images per email. WF ACA and HPD are superideals and have all the images you need online. To keep in your budget at near 2 carat, I dropped to J and I color.

J color
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947720.htm {super-ideal with perfect light return. Inclusion in center eye-clean. Love this one}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-
4198154 {the major inclusions on the girdle should be covered by a prong. Need an IS}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3434323 {inclusions on the girdle are not terribly visible, but should be covered by a prong. Good numbers. Need an IS}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4297775 {great numbers with a small table. Good clarity. Good IS images}
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/v/024126808 {Good ASET, good symmetry.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7742

I color
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3941374.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3636386.htm

I really like the first I color (the 1.603 carat) from WF recommended by @rockysalamander. That's a beautiful diamond. And like she said, an EGL H is the same as an AGS I (or J...), so you're not losing anything on the color front.

I would second the opinion to stay away from the EGL stone you posted. It has a high probability of looking very dark in a wide array of lighting.

 

[LaylaR]

I would advise steering clear of EGL. Even the USA EGL.

 

[statestreetk]

The video shows a diamond with a consistently dark center. Also, I'm confused how this diamond could even achieve a VG from EGL, see chart below. By their own rating system, this would be below a VG. That aside, we know that EGL are soft on color. So, this is somewhere between H and J based on my experience using GIA ratings.

Edited to add: How can it be a SI1 with a clean plot? It must have giant clouds. Are there any notations on the right side of the paperwork?

If you really want to pursue this diamonds, ask for an ASET image (or buy your own). That will show you the volume of light return. I'll be happy to be found wrong in my judgement.



https://www.eglusa.com/images/pdf/cut-grade-diamond-report-cover-interior.pdf

Here are the guidelines we recommend for GIA stones (and we generally only look at GIA and AGS).
These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.
table: 52-57.5 (but I really prefer under 57)
depth: 60-62.3 {consider 59.5)
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

On color, has the intended recipient seen GIA graded stones? Have they expressed a color preference? That will make a big difference in the cost.

I like this one, but am a bit scared by the "strong blue" florescence.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4297775

The 1.7ct EGL USA diamond I'm considering is actually $9.5k if that makes a difference. I would like to stay under $11k if at all possible for the diamond.

 

[HappyNewLife]

That EGL diamond is $9.5k for a reason. I'd invest into one of the diamonds rocky suggested

 

[TreeScientist]

I like this one, but am a bit scared by the "strong blue" florescence.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4297775

The 1.7ct EGL USA diamond I'm considering is actually $9.5k if that makes a difference. I would like to stay under $11k if at all possible for the diamond.

I like the J with strong fluoro you posted. It doesn't look like the fluoro is causing it to look milky, but you would need to check with the gemologist there once they have the gem in hand.

 

[statestreetk]

I like the J with strong fluoro you posted. It doesn't look like the fluoro is causing it to look milky, but you would need to check with the gemologist there once they have the gem in hand.

Would the feather on the girdle be a possible issue when setting the stone and placing it under a prong? from a durability standpoint?

 

[rockysalamander]

The feather here is not an issue. If you notice, a prong will be placed in the center of the arrows. The feather is perfectly placed to be beside a prong and it a VS2 sized one. Not an issue. I'd be more worried if it was on an arrow-tip and SI1 where it is far from a prong.



As a note, I always ask that they put the prongs between the arrows (B) not on the arrows (A).

 

[statestreetk]

The feather here is not an issue. If you notice, a prong will be placed in the center of the arrows. The feather is perfectly placed to be beside a prong and it a VS2 sized one. Not an issue. I'd be more worried if it was on an arrow-tip and SI1 where it is far from a prong.



As a note, I always ask that they put the prongs between the arrows (B) not on the arrows (A).

Very helpful, thanks. So if I'm understanding correctly the feather will NOT be covered by a prong, but instead situated right next to it? And that won't be noticeable as it's a VS2?

 

[rockysalamander]

Very helpful, thanks. So if I'm understanding correctly the feather will NOT be covered by a prong, but instead situated right next to it? And that won't be noticeable as it's a VS2?

Is should not be visible either way unless the wearer has eagle-vision. I would personally ask the JA gemologist to confer with the setter as to the best placement. When the pressure is acceptable, I prefer having inclusions near prongs. It kinds depend on the setting...

What setting are you looking at? Need suggestions?

 

[statestreetk]

Looking for a 6 prong, very dainty, plain, solitaire, all rose gold setting. No bridge if possible. Tiffany style.

Edit: don't like the JA one's available and I want mine to be ALL rose gold - even the prongs.

 

[rockysalamander]

Look up the petite flower. So pretty in person.

 

[statestreetk]

Look up the petite flower. So pretty in person.

No bridge if possible. Tiffany style. Don't like the JA one's available and I want mine to be ALL rose gold - even the prongs.

 

[rockysalamander]

The vatche u113 is the best tiffany replica. Check whiteflash. If you get the setting from wf, let's look for a diamond from them to save a step

 

[rockysalamander]

This one?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947720.htm