35 crown 58 table 40.8 61.3 or 36 crown 57 table 40.6 diamond 62.3

[dfilipcic]

help me choose please, both have 80% lower , 1st stone fall in ags 1, second fall in ags 0, I would have thought the the other way around as many of you people suggest the lower 35 crown angle. help

 

[Texas Leaguer]

help me choose please, both have 80% lower , 1st stone fall in ags 1, second fall in ags 0, I would have thought the the other way around as many of you people suggest the lower 35 crown angle. help

Most will likely tell you the 1st stone has safer parameters. But since they are averaged and rounded measurements, you really don't know enough about actual light performance to make meaningful distinctions. ASET, IdealScope, Hearts and Arrows images will reveal much more.

 

[dfilipcic]

Most will likely tell you the 1st stone has safer parameters. But since they are averaged and rounded measurements, you really don't know enough about actual light performance to make meaningful distinctions. ASET, IdealScope, Hearts and Arrows images will reveal much more.

help me choose please, both have 80% lower , 1st stone fall in ags 1, second fall in ags 0, I would have thought the the other way around as many of you people suggest the lower 35 crown angle. help

thank you , I don’t have these available and will have to pick one, confused why 2nd stone with 36% crown that members don’t recommend fits in ags o ideal parameters,is it because of the 57% table and 1st stone is 58% table and is only a 1 in ags , of course both Gia excellent rating, all I have are the magnified photos

 

[OoohShiny]

Which vendor are you dealing with?

If you use the PS-recommended vendors, they should be able to provide all of the images Texas Leaguer has mentioned.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

thank you , I don’t have these available and will have to pick one, confused why 2nd stone with 36% crown that members don’t recommend fits in ags o ideal parameters,is it because of the 57% table and 1st stone is 58% table and is only a 1 in ags , of course both Gia excellent rating, all I have are the magnified photos

From a table/crown angle/pavilion angle perspective they could both make AGS0. It will depend on how precise the cutting is (how close to those rounded averages the measurements actually are), as well as the actual measurements of the other facets not included in that data.
AGS parametric charts can be found here: https://agslab.com/docs/pbcg/AGSLProportionCharts.pdf

 

[dfilipcic]

Thank you Bryan, my confusion continues as the files on ags' website I get is are a bit different, even a diamond with 40.8 and 34.8 angles and 57 or 58 % tables come up as a 1, which I would of thought for sure would be ideal parameters, Thank you again for the knowledge as I love learning

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thank you Bryan, my confusion continues as the file on ags' website I get is a bit different,

I can see why you are confused. I believe the issue is that the chart above pre-dates the AGS light performance grading system. Note the watermark 2004. I believe they updated the charts to include more candidates after the LP system demonstrated that certain combinations have potential to result in Ideal performance if certain conditions are met.

 

[dfilipcic]

Thanks again!!

 

[John P]

I can see why you are confused. I believe the issue is that the chart above pre-dates the AGS light performance grading system. Note the watermark 2004. I believe they updated the charts to include more candidates after the LP system demonstrated that certain combinations have potential to result in Ideal performance if certain conditions are met.

A slight correction, Bryan. The cut-guidelines @dfilipcic liked, with the 2004 watermark, do correspond to the current Light Performance metric, released in 2005. Those charts are stipulated as guidelines because the final grade can only be determined with a full 3D scan. Depending on cut-consistency, minor-facet choices, indexing and other details combos on the borderlines may go one way or the other. Since that's frequently downward AGSL kept the guidelines purposefully conservative. The diamond must be sent to the lab or measured in PGS software to know the actual grade. It's a diamond-specific system.

Alternately, the charts you linked (http://www.agslab.com/docs/pbcg/AGSLProportionCharts.pdf) correspond to the more lenient AGS 2D "Gold" proportions system from 2008. That system was designed to mimic GIA's more factory-friendly approach, giving a predictive grade based on averaged 2D proportions. Like GIA, it was also the first AGS iteration where the overall cut grade ("Ideal") permitted the top two grades in polish & symmetry. It's not as liberal as the GIA proportions system, but it's not diamond-specific and nowhere near as sophisticated as the Platinum AGS metric.

Platinum (3D) Light Performance Report example here (single ASET map).
http://www.americangemsociety.org/page/agslabsplatinumdi

Gold (2D) Proportions Quality Report example here.
http://www.americangemsociety.org/page/agslabsgolddiamon

Here's prior discussion on the topic, with examples of changes over the years.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/confused-about-different-ags-certificates-can-experts-chime-in.129850/#post-2285615

 

[dfilipcic]

Thank you also John, I find this all super interesting and educational and also understand why the extra cost for vendors who do the extra work to provide a guaranteed quality product, that being said being Canadian and having to pay the exchange rate as well I can not afford the additional dollars and have to make this purchase with the gia reports and photos, if anyone has a moment to look at gia#6272692430 vs #7231029258 your opinion is appreciated, one stone is j color but going in a 18k yellow setting, thank you all for sharing your wisdom and knowledge!

 

[rockysalamander]

• 7231029258 has a cloud as a grade setting inclusion along with a feather an crystal. Without seeing this stone, these could be fine or terrible. Clouds can cause haziness, although less often in VS stones. But, this stone was graded in 2016. So, it is more likely than not a tradein. That alone is not an issue, but without a regrading, you have no idea if the stone has been damaged/chipped since grading. I would reject this stone.
  
  
• 6272692430 has a crystal as the grade setting inclusion. That could be a white, minor inclusion or a black/concentrated feature. Without seeing it or the vendor saying so, you can't assume this is eyeclean. It it is a black inclusion, I'd personally have an issue with it. Again, this stone raises issues.

While I understand you are in Canada, have you looked at BlueNile (which has a location in Canada) or other vendors to determine if you are actually saving money by buying sight-unseen from this vendor. In general, diamonds cost more in Canada, so it is not always the case that you are actually saving much by avoiding the taxes. I would personally look at BN and look at the tax issues. If you are open to this, PS members can look for you and provide some solid options. At the very least, don't commit to either of these until you look at BN.

 

[dfilipcic]

Thank you , I have them reserved on blue nile and will be purchasing one of them tomorrow, the blue nile numbers are ld 08651734 and ld 07247987, also concerns me a little about the 2016 report, please let me know which one and why , thanks again to all!!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thanks for retrospective and clarifications John. The gold report seems like ancient history! Strange that there is no cut grade on the sample report at that link (?)

There certainly was ample room for confusion as AGS was transitioning to the light performance system and trying to bring some logic and structure to an expanded menu of reports and charts. I am not sure how many dealers and jewelers still use the older style reports.

 

[dfilipcic]

So back to the beginning hahaha, stone 2 with 36% crown is still rated ags 0 ideal on both charts but is stone 1 still a better cut? and safer buy even if it is only ideal on the 2008 chart, I understand their is more to it and but as I said I can't afford the premium price and have been forced to do as much as I can. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

So back to the beginning hahaha, stone 2 with 36% crown is still rated ags 0 ideal on both charts but is stone 1 still a better cut? and safer buy even if it is only ideal on the 2008 chart, I understand their is more to it and but as I said I can't afford the premium price and have been forced to do as much as I can. Thanks again for the help.

If you will not be able to get additional LP information, cut quality differences are a guessing game. And because they are dossiers there is no plot info so clarity distinctions cannot be reliably assessed remotely. So I would focus on other tangibles such as the color difference and price.

 

[rockysalamander]

What is your budget? Apologies if you've said already .

 

[dfilipcic]

my budget is from $2500 -$2,900 us dollars, this is why I am between these two, I think they are both a good deal and if there was better to be had I'm all ears

 

[rockysalamander]

Your choices
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08651734, crystal is tiny and not terribly visible.6.08 mm
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD07247987, eliminate due to dated report unless they will send back to verify grading. 6.07 mm

My Suggestions
In budget. This is a really nice 60/60 style diamond. Uncommon angles with slightly lower crown and table> depth but it look nice in the video and I can see all the arrows.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab {.83 J VS2 6.14 mm)

Do you have room to up your budget just a bit? Using the bank wire price, these are better choices.

Largest I can find. 60/60 style with more white light than fire, but really nice CA/PA pairing. Tiny crystal on table. Love the size on this.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab {6.25 mm. 0.90 I SI1.}

My top choice. I like this at lot better. Lower CA, smaller table, lovely clarity. I'd choose this one over the previous two you posted. I prefer I over J color.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab - {.83 I VVS2 5.98 mm}

If they can confirm the cloud has not impact, which is likely, this is another good choice, but I prefer the I color of LD096245548. If you can get the GEMEX to be viewable, this give some sense of performance.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab -{.83 J VS2 6.05 mm}