3.1 HCA but in love.. help, thoughts?

[Diamondfever10]

We purchased a diamond yesterday as it fit our qualifications and budget (priced under $9,000) but have just recently determined lthat our diamond has a 3.1 HCA. Pros, cons? We are searching for maximum shine and sparkle between 1.3-1.5ct.

Any helpful remarks to help us reconsider or other options to consider?

We’ve requested an ASET from James Allen but they have stated they don’t do them for rounds and can give us an “IS”.

Details below:

1.36 ct
Color: H
Clarity: VVS2
Cut: Excellent
7.03 - 7.06 x 4.41mm
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.4
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Total Depth: 62.6%

No obvious blemishes, no fluorescence, excellent polish/symmetry. Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[lovedogs]

You can definitely do better for the price! Are you willing to look elsewhere, or want to stay with JA?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'd return and start over. Here are the measurements that are in the relatively "safe zone":

table 54-57 (up to 58 ok)

depth 60-62.3 (if you get a stone that it too deep, the diameter may be smaller than it should for the weight of the stone.)

crown angle 34-35.0 (maybe up to 35.5 if the pav angle is 40.6)

pavilion angle 40.6 to 40.9

 

[TreeScientist]

Also, from the way the measurements are rounded, it appears that the diamond has either an IGI certificate or AGS certificate. Just be aware that, if this is indeed an IGI certificate, then the color might be a bit lower than what is stated on the certificate. IGI tends to be a bit "softer" on color grading than the GIA standard.

I agree with the others that you can do better for the price. But if you love it, then hey, you love it.

If you're interested in finding a better price on a diamond, then check out RareCarat. For open market stones (meaning not branded SuperIdeals) James Allen is overpriced. You can find an equivalent diamond for much cheaper by going with one of the other open market vendors, like Yadav, FourMine, Parcel&Stone, Adiamor, etc.

 

[Diamondfever10]

You can definitely do better for the price! Are you willing to look elsewhere, or want to stay with JA?

We could go with somewhere else! James Allen had a setting we liked. Do you have any recommendations?

 

[TreeScientist]

Just a few examples (all under $9000) of what you could get elsewhere. Not all of these have absolutely perfect cut, but they're much (much) better than the current diamond you selected.

Good angles. Nice ASET image overall. A little deep, but still okay.
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.3-carat-g-vs2-yd4445644

Looks decent overall. Needs an IdealScope or ASET image. Enchanted Diamonds is usually pretty good about providing these.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R131-185184089?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

Again, nice ASET image, although not perfect. Again, a little deep, but nothing to worry about:
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.26-carat-g-vs1-yd4547523

Really like this one. Although the ASET, again, is not perfect, it looks lively from the video. Nice fat arrows:
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.32-carat-g-vs2-yd4452569

All of these are much better deals than the James Allen stone you've chosen.

 

[TreeScientist]

Oh, and one more that I just found. Really like this one. My favorite of the bunch so far. The crown angle is a bit low at 33.5, but there is still plenty of crown height there due to the small 55% table. Beautiful ASET image, lively video, and over the 7mm diameter mark. Right at $9k too for the bank wire price.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...3-Carat-G-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-064684094

 

[Diamondfever10]

I'd return and start over. Here are the measurements that are in the relatively "safe zone":

table 54-57 (up to 58 ok)

depth 60-62.3 (if you get a stone that it too deep, the diameter may be smaller than it should for the weight of the stone.)

crown angle 34-35.0 (maybe up to 35.5 if the pav angle is 40.6)

pavilion angle 40.6 to 40.9

Thanks, I think we will restart to try and get in that range. Do you recommend researching those measurements and comparing HCAs to make a decision?

Also, from the way the measurements are rounded, it appears that the diamond has either an IGI certificate or AGS certificate. Just be aware that, if this is indeed an IGI certificate, then the color might be a bit lower than what is stated on the certificate. IGI tends to be a bit "softer" on color grading than the GIA standard.

I agree with the others that you can do better for the price. But if you love it, then hey, you love it.

If you're interested in finding a better price on a diamond, then check out RareCarat. For open market stones (meaning not branded SuperIdeals) James Allen is overpriced. You can find an equivalent diamond for much cheaper by going with one of the other open market vendors, like Yadav, FourMine, Parcel&Stone, Adiamor, etc.

Thanks! I’ve heard that about IGI. That was one of the things that concerned us.

RareCarat shows similar diamonds at VS1 for ~$8,400 and we paid $8,800. What are you thinking is a cheaper price for a diamond like this, or should our search criteria be modified? https://www.rarecarat.com/c/9f4ff584-0e4d-4ec4-9e58-bed216f6dd46/l82

Any suggestions are so helpful.. Thanks!

 

[kmoro]

I feel you! It’s so hard not to love a diamond “in-hand”! And really, aren’t almost all diamonds beautiful?
But the fact remains that you can do better! I kinda did the same thing ... bought a diamond and then got on Pricescope instead of the other way around. It was soooo hard to return the diamond I had ... fell in love with it ... I’m still waiting for the new one but my expectations are high (ACA) ... longest wait ever ... but I’m looking forward to falling in love with a better diamond.
So lucky for you to get suggestions here before it’s too late!

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks, I think we will restart to try and get in that range. Do you recommend researching those measurements and comparing HCAs to make a decision?



Thanks! I’ve heard that about IGI. That was one of the things that concerned us.

RareCarat shows similar diamonds at VS1 for ~$8,400 and we paid $8,800. What are you thinking is a cheaper price for a diamond like this, or should our search criteria be modified? https://www.rarecarat.com/c/9f4ff584-0e4d-4ec4-9e58-bed216f6dd46/l82

Any suggestions are so helpful.. Thanks!

You cannot "compare" HCA", as it's just a accept/reject tool. Anything that scores under 2 is "accept", and over 2 is "reject". So stick with the ranges @diamondseeker2006 gave you, check that HCA is under 2, then confirm performance with ASET/IS images.

 

[TreeScientist]

Thanks! I’ve heard that about IGI. That was one of the things that concerned us.

RareCarat shows similar diamonds at VS1 for ~$8,400 and we paid $8,800. What are you thinking is a cheaper price for a diamond like this, or should our search criteria be modified? https://www.rarecarat.com/c/9f4ff584-0e4d-4ec4-9e58-bed216f6dd46/l82

Any suggestions are so helpful.. Thanks!

IGI diamonds often seem like a "deal" but they really aren't when you factor in the softer grading. To determine whether an IGI diamond is a deal, it's best to lower the IGI-assigned color and clarity grading by one grade each and then compare to GIA/AGS prices. For this diamond, an IGI H/VVS2, you should be comparing it to I/VS1 GIA diamonds, because the diamond would likely be an I/VS1 by GIA/AGS standards. And that's being conservative. There's been reports on here of IGI being 2 color grades off...

 

[Diamondfever10]

IGI diamonds often seem like a "deal" but they really aren't when you factor in the softer grading. To determine whether an IGI diamond is a deal, it's best to lower the IGI-assigned color and clarity grading by one grade each and then compare to GIA/AGS prices. For this diamond, an IGI H/VVS2, you should be comparing it to I/VS1 GIA diamonds, because the diamond would likely be an I/VS1 by GIA/AGS standards. And that's being conservative. There's been reports on here of IGI being 2 color grades off...

Okay, thanks. We loved some of the recommendations you had. It got us thinking.

What are your thoughts on going down the color scale, but up on cut and size (all GIA scales). Something like this, close to $9K? https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.46-carat-i-vvs1-yd4580032

 

[Swirl68]

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-6054166

 

[TreeScientist]

Okay, thanks. We loved some of the recommendations you had. It got us thinking.

What are your thoughts on going down the color scale, but up on cut and size. Something like this, close to $9K? https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.46-carat-i-vvs1-yd4580032

Color preference is personal. Me personally? My fiancé and I only like D-E color diamonds (one of us works with colors every day, the other is asian and is quite particular about diamond color). But only you can answer that question for yourself.

I would highly suggest you go with your partner to look at well-cut, GIA-certed diamonds in person in colors from D to J in the size range you're considering (1-1.5 carat). Go to a local jeweler and offer to pay them a bit of money for their time if you won't be buying a stone from them (it's worth it to have a good relationship with a local jeweler ).

Line up the stones without knowing the colors (have the jeweler "blind" this experiment for you). Then see if you can tell the difference and, more importantly, see if the color bothers you. Look at them both under the jewelry store lights and also under "normal" lighting (outside or in a dark corner of the store). This is VERY important, because jewelry store lights are designed to make EVERY diamond look white.

Trust me, don't let others tell you "X color diamond is perfect." You really need to decide this for yourself. It is definitely worth an afternoon of your time to get this right the first time.

 

[Diamondfever10]

You cannot "compare" HCA", as it's just a accept/reject tool. Anything that scores under 2 is "accept", and over 2 is "reject". So stick with the ranges @diamondseeker2006 gave you, check that HCA is under 2, then confirm performance with ASET/IS images.

Great. Thanks.

 

[lovedogs]

Color preference is personal. Me personally? My fiancé and I only like D-E color diamonds (one of us works with colors every day, the other is asian and is quite particular about diamond color). But only you can answer that question for yourself.

I would highly suggest you go with your partner to look at well-cut, GIA-certed diamonds in person in colors from D to J in the size range you're considering (1-1.5 carat). Go to a local jeweler and offer to pay them a bit of money for their time if you won't be buying a stone from them (it's worth it to have a good relationship with a local jeweler ).

Line up the stones without knowing the colors (have the jeweler "blind" this experiment for you). Then see if you can tell the difference and, more importantly, see if the color bothers you. Look at them both under the jewelry store lights and also under "normal" lighting (outside or in a dark corner of the store). This is VERY important, because jewelry store lights are designed to make EVERY diamond look white.

Trust me, don't let others tell you "X color diamond is perfect." You really need to decide this for yourself. It is definitely worth an afternoon of your time to get this right the first time.

Agree 100%! I love warmer stones, so for me anything color of the rainbow is great. But I know others think I/J is the absolute lowest they'd go. For others nothing below G works. It's very personal.

 

[kmoro]

Okay, thanks. We loved some of the recommendations you had. It got us thinking.

What are your thoughts on going down the color scale, but up on cut and size (all GIA scales). Something like this, close to $9K? https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.46-carat-i-vvs1-yd4580032

If the one you have is IGI graded, then keep in mind you are probably not going down in color grade ... that IGI H is likely to be a GIA I or J. Most people think cut is most important, so best not to compromise there - depending on your own preferences, of course.

The numbers on the Yadav diamond look promising! Some people prefer lower half to be closer to 75 for bolder flashes. Except for “mind-clean” or maybe another personal reason, you would be safe to go down in clarity.

 

[kmoro]

Here’s one with a CA of 34.5 and PA 40.8, - a preferred combo, and the diamond is stunning:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4061061.htm

 

[Diamondfever10]

Agree 100%! I love warmer stones, so for me anything color of the rainbow is great. But I know others think I/J is the absolute lowest they'd go. For others nothing below G works. It's very personal.

Thanks! We’ve seen the differences in person and I-H was the range we were comfortable being at.

 

[Diamondfever10]

If the one you have is IGI graded, then keep in mind you are probably not going down in color grade ... that IGI H is likely to be a GIA I or J. Most people think cut is most important, so best not to compromise there - depending on your own preferences, of course.

The numbers on the Yadav diamond look promising! Some people prefer lower half to be closer to 75 for bolder flashes. Except for “mind-clean” or maybe another personal reason, you would be safe to go down in clarity.

Good point. I appreciate that. I now see why our first pick is definitely not ideal.

Do the feathers on this stone bug you at all?

 

[AV_]

I agree with much of the above:
The HCA guesses what everyone ought to like, so you may well choose to dissent...
I do not see the particular beauty of this RBC (since so many are very much alike) and it only sounds like a deal on account of debatable grading. Prices are attached to grades not to taste...
_____

Taking a note to self on the side:

open market stones (meaning not branded SuperIdeals)

So goes the bulk...

I can't say I have thought much of stocking as a testimony of taste and worth, but it does look that way here. My own choices would not be different if they were not private!

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks! We’ve seen the differences in person and I-H was the range we were comfortable being at.

If you are comfortable with I color, then I'd definitely go for more size and slightly lower color!

 

[kmoro]

Good point. I appreciate that. I now see why our first pick is definitely not ideal.

Do the feathers on this stone bug you at all?

That is a GIA graded VVS1 ... so no, the feathers would not bug me as they would be very tiny ... the next step up from VVS1 is IF ... most would say any VVS is overkill unless you have reasons other than visual.

 

[Diamondfever10]

HUGE thank you to you all for your help with this! Especially @TreeScientist. We would have stayed with our other diamond and be blinded by it’s shiny-ness, but so happy we did not. That order is canceled and we are moving on!

 

[TreeScientist]

HUGE thank you to you all for your help with this! Especially @TreeScientist. We would have stayed with our other diamond and be blinded by it’s shiny-ness, but so happy we did not. That order is canceled and we are moving on!

You're welcome, glad we could help! And it's excellent that you've already gone to a store to determine your color preferences. As @lovedogs said, if you've looked at I color diamonds in person and you liked them, then by all means go for some extra size and drop to I color. I usually recommend G colored diamonds to people who have absolutely no clue what they like, or who are buying the diamond as a surprise, simply because G is fairly "safe" in that most people are not bothered by the color in a G.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Use the numbers I gave you. No need to use the HCA because they will all be near 2 or under if you stay within those ranges. But post the link so we can see the stone. Much can be determined by seeing it.

This one looks good although they are bad with photography. Nice size just under the 1.5 ct mark!

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.46-carat-i-vvs1-yd4580032

This one is also great and especially if you think you'd ever want to upgrade:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4061061.htm

 

[Diamondfever10]

Use the numbers I gave you. No need to use the HCA because they will all be near 2 or under if you stay within those ranges. But post the link so we can see the stone. Much can be determined by seeing it.

This one looks good although they are bad with photography. Nice size just under the 1.5 ct mark!

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.46-carat-i-vvs1-yd4580032

This one is also great and especially if you think you'd ever want to upgrade:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4061061.htm

Thank you! We actually ended up placing the order on the 1.46 carat and found a setting that they offered and we liked! It was newly listed in their inventory at a price lower than the other vendors and we are waiting to get more images from them (once received from supplier). I hope it is as beautiful as it looks on paper!

Of course there is a return period.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thank you! We actually ended up placing the order on the 1.46 carat and found a setting that they offered and we liked! It was newly listed in their inventory at a price lower than the other vendors and we are waiting to get more images from them (once received from supplier). I hope it is as beautiful as it looks on paper!

Of course there is a return period.

Awesome! I think you did very well, and I am quite sure it will be a great stone!

 

[Golden_bird]

Thank you! We actually ended up placing the order on the 1.46 carat and found a setting that they offered and we liked! It was newly listed in their inventory at a price lower than the other vendors and we are waiting to get more images from them (once received from supplier). I hope it is as beautiful as it looks on paper!

Of course there is a return period.

I also just recently purchased a stone from Yadav in similar carat weight and color ! They were pretty easy to work with and good customer service !I have been examining it back and forth. Everybody on preicesope and myself agreed that it was a good buy so I guess keeping the stone

 

[Diamondfever10]

I also just recently purchased a stone from Yadav in similar carat weight and color ! They were pretty easy to work with and good customer service !I have been examining it back and forth. Everybody on preicesope and myself agreed that it was a good buy so I guess keeping the stone

Yes thanks for sharing! I am eagerly awaiting!! Any pictures you would be willing to share??

You're welcome, glad we could help! And it's excellent that you've already gone to a store to determine your color preferences. As @lovedogs said, if you've looked at I color diamonds in person and you liked them, then by all means go for some extra size and drop to I color. I usually recommend G colored diamonds to people who have absolutely no clue what they like, or who are buying the diamond as a surprise, simply because G is fairly "safe" in that most people are not bothered by the color in a G.

It is amazing that we started this process 4 months ago with our local jeweler and have made it to a purchase! Literally blood, sweat, and tears.