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30yearsofdiamonds what is your deal with Fluorescence???

+1 to that!
 
I wonder why he's rocking a trade tag, yet commenting on other vendor's diamonds
 
Wow, people are asking opinions about characteristics of diamonds. I have 25 years of diamond grading and 35 years experience on 47th street. I have given several speeches in LV, Chicago, Atlanta. I've put together master stones for grading labs, graded the Centenary Diamond, the Hope diamond, graded diamonds form 0.15 cts to over 300 cts. I have trained hundreds of GIA and other Labs diamond graders. I helped design GIA's quality control guidelines.

I've done studies with UVF stones while with GCAL. I know how the trade deals with these stones. If I can't state an opinion on very strong blue stones, trying to help someone with what they are not aware of, then why don't we just tell everyone that whatever they want to buy is just great?

There are a lot of things discussed in the Forum that I could comment on, but don't. I still will stand by my comment that very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight. They may appear to be three colors better then they really are in indoor lighting and if someone wants to buy that stone for that reason, that's ok. But they still should know all factors.

Thanks.

DBG
 
I don't think what Dan is saying is necessarily false. Most PSers absolutely love fluor (I know I do!), but the reality is that stones with fluor are discounted and in the jewelry trade are considered not as desirable as a stone without fluor. Very strong blue fluor stones should be looked at with caution and taken outside in bright sun.
 
30yearsofdiamonds|1395150230|3636405 said:
Wow, people are asking opinions about characteristics of diamonds. I have 25 years of diamond grading and 35 years experience on 47th street. I have given several speeches in LV, Chicago, Atlanta. I've put together master stones for grading labs, graded the Centenary Diamond, the Hope diamond, graded diamonds form 0.15 cts to over 300 cts. I have trained hundreds of GIA and other Labs diamond graders. I helped design GIA's quality control guidelines.

I've done studies with UVF stones while with GCAL. I know how the trade deals with these stones. If I can't state an opinion on very strong blue stones, trying to help someone with what they are not aware of, then why don't we just tell everyone that whatever they want to buy is just great?

There are a lot of things discussed in the Forum that I could comment on, but don't. I still will stand by my comment that very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight. They may appear to be three colors better then they really are in indoor lighting and if someone wants to buy that stone for that reason, that's ok. But they still should know all factors.

Thanks.

DBG
Click to expand...

It is all in how it is presented.
Trade members are held to a higher standard and should as much as possible deal with facts.
One persons odd is another's awesome.
It should be pointed out that they look different in some lighting and trade at a discount and caution should be used to avoid over blues.
However saying that it is bad or odd is personal opinion not fact and should be avoided by trade members.
You can say they look odd to you that is different from saying they are odd.
 
30yearsofdiamonds|1395150230|3636405 said:
Wow, people are asking opinions about characteristics of diamonds. I have 25 years of diamond grading and 35 years experience on 47th street. I have given several speeches in LV, Chicago, Atlanta. I've put together master stones for grading labs, graded the Centenary Diamond, the Hope diamond, graded diamonds form 0.15 cts to over 300 cts. I have trained hundreds of GIA and other Labs diamond graders. I helped design GIA's quality control guidelines.

I've done studies with UVF stones while with GCAL. I know how the trade deals with these stones. If I can't state an opinion on very strong blue stones, trying to help someone with what they are not aware of, then why don't we just tell everyone that whatever they want to buy is just great?

There are a lot of things discussed in the Forum that I could comment on, but don't. I still will stand by my comment that very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight. They may appear to be three colors better then they really are in indoor lighting and if someone wants to buy that stone for that reason, that's ok. But they still should know all factors.

Thanks.

DBG
Click to expand...


Sounds like you are tap dancing on the edge of forum rules if you are trade.
 
I like your response Karl.

Trying to decide if I should grab the popcorn or pass on by..."nothing to see here" with style...

Different strokes for different folks. Just saw a comment from a PSer saying she loves when her diamond has that bluish hue in the sun. That's awesome!
 
And also, PS is a ghost town as it is already; do you want to run off people because they don't have the same opinions as the rest of the group? Why can't we try to be more welcoming to everyone?
 
Laila619|1395157118|3636467 said:
And also, PS is a ghost town as it is already; do you want to run off people because they don't have the same opinions as the rest of the group? Why can't we try to be more welcoming to everyone?
Click to expand...

Laila, I always knew there was a reason I respect your posts so much…I've been feeling this way for a long time and have said as much but nobody seems to appreciate the point. I cringe sometimes at the unecessarily harsh and critical posts directed at new members.

Before this thread turns into a melodrama and a PS pile-on, could anyone with any issues with a poster just notify the mods about it and call it a day?
 
I don't Tap Dance. Just a bit more old school with my knowledge. I didn't put anyone down for their opinions, nor do I rank PS'ers by the # of posts. I don't suggest stones from companies selling.
 
30yearsofdiamonds|1395158012|3636476 said:
I don't suggest stones from companies selling.
Click to expand...

Please take a moment to re-read our policies, there is much more to being in line with them as a trade member than just not suggesting stones. You have an email in your inbox as well. :))
 
Is this Dan Gillen from ERD?
 
Hmmmm I think this thread has opened a can of worms as I got a note today asking if I am truly trade and I should also reread the policy. I am not really trade but i have completed courses and certifications in diamond grading and appraising. Most PS ers are more knowledgable on diamonds than I am from their years of experiience on this forum.

I also buy gold, diamonds and collectibles on a part time basis. But I have removed the trade symbol from my account as I am not really trade.
 
30yearsofdiamonds|1395169630|3636626 said:
Hey Rhino, don't want to break any rules, but the name is correct.
Click to expand...

Huh?
That's not what Rhino asked.

It would not break rules to just answer Rhino's question ... "Is this Dan Gillen from ERD?"
 
I consult for companies privately and Mark is one of them, as well as being a close friend of mine, he is knowledgeable and trustworthy.
 
I am new to this forum and have to admit that some posters have made me question my preference for fluorescence and FICs. (I had no idea about diamonds until I found this site in December. :lol: ) While I understand that you are all trying to guide newbies to making the best purchase possible for stones that they are usually not seeing in person, the safest choices, you are forgetting that there are some people coming here for knowledge who then use that knowledge to help them select their stone in person. Certain posters have very strict ranges that they prefer and if a newbie posts stats on a diamond that fall outside of those ranges, responses can be harsh at times. There are many beautiful stones out there that fall out of TIC range. It would be more beneficial to explain what a diamond with those less than ideal stats would result in. Scaring people off, telling them to run or that it's a dud doesn't help a person understand why. If you take the time to say that the stone will have fisheye or will appear dark etc is of more help. Explain what a person can expect to see with the fluorescence in their stone and to have the diamond checked for milkiness. Some posters do an excellent job in this area.

Yes, there are many threads on this site to help with improving knowledge but when you are new, it can take a long time to find the information, especially if you don't know the language of diamonds or what you are even looking for. I understand that experienced PSers must get tired of repeating yourselves month after month which is why on occasion abrupt replies to questions occur. You are basically volunteer teachers and we newbies are grateful for the time you donate to educate us. Thank you.
 
Dan- a few tips from a battle hardened veteran :)...
Please don't make absolute statements- for example- I will agree than many Strong blue stones will show effects in sunlight.
snip.....very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight....snip
Click to expand...
That is an an inaccurate statement. Many do, but certainly not all.
Adding a single word fixes this.
snip....very strong blue stones may have an odd look in sunlight...snip
I also would not use the word "odd" as some strong blue stones that do show effects may show effects that are very attractive to many observers.....but this is the type of statement that is subjective- which we're allowed to do as long as it's in general, not specifically directed at another vendor's stone.


If you feel the need to comment on a post that refers to any stone identified by vendor, you must be super careful.
Make sure you are NOT discussing the particular diamond being offered.
Make a general comment, which may help the consumer to understand something they may want to consider.
Like "I can't comment on that particular stone, but in general....."
Even then you can end up taking a bad path.

I hope this helps- it really does help everyone if there's more participation.
 
Hello.. I've only seen one diamond with toooooo much fluorescence, it looked like milk.. it was a big stone +2carat.. I think for a person who can live with their diamond glowing it's a great buy.. to me it's just not a look I would like.. BUT - - never say never.. I've been here almost a year and have learned tons.. I hope you stay!

tekate!!!

lover of my new "K" colored August Vintage cushion.. problem is i'm toying with wanting it in a ring now ! hahaha!

30yearsofdiamonds|1395150230|3636405 said:
Wow, people are asking opinions about characteristics of diamonds. I have 25 years of diamond grading and 35 years experience on 47th street. I have given several speeches in LV, Chicago, Atlanta. I've put together master stones for grading labs, graded the Centenary Diamond, the Hope diamond, graded diamonds form 0.15 cts to over 300 cts. I have trained hundreds of GIA and other Labs diamond graders. I helped design GIA's quality control guidelines.

I've done studies with UVF stones while with GCAL. I know how the trade deals with these stones. If I can't state an opinion on very strong blue stones, trying to help someone with what they are not aware of, then why don't we just tell everyone that whatever they want to buy is just great?

There are a lot of things discussed in the Forum that I could comment on, but don't. I still will stand by my comment that very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight. They may appear to be three colors better then they really are in indoor lighting and if someone wants to buy that stone for that reason, that's ok. But they still should know all factors.

Thanks.

DBG
Click to expand...
 
Hello.. I've only seen one diamond with toooooo much fluorescence, it looked like milk.. it was a big stone +2carat.. I think for a person who can live with their diamond glowing it's a great buy.. to me it's just not a look I would like.. BUT - - never say never.. I've been here almost a year and have learned tons.. I hope you stay!

tekate!!!

lover of my new "K" colored August Vintage cushion.. problem is i'm toying with wanting it in a ring now ! hahaha!

30yearsofdiamonds|1395150230|3636405 said:
Wow, people are asking opinions about characteristics of diamonds. I have 25 years of diamond grading and 35 years experience on 47th street. I have given several speeches in LV, Chicago, Atlanta. I've put together master stones for grading labs, graded the Centenary Diamond, the Hope diamond, graded diamonds form 0.15 cts to over 300 cts. I have trained hundreds of GIA and other Labs diamond graders. I helped design GIA's quality control guidelines.

I've done studies with UVF stones while with GCAL. I know how the trade deals with these stones. If I can't state an opinion on very strong blue stones, trying to help someone with what they are not aware of, then why don't we just tell everyone that whatever they want to buy is just great?

There are a lot of things discussed in the Forum that I could comment on, but don't. I still will stand by my comment that very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight. They may appear to be three colors better then they really are in indoor lighting and if someone wants to buy that stone for that reason, that's ok. But they still should know all factors.

Thanks.

DBG
Click to expand...
 
Andelain|1395143639|3636354 said:
I wonder why he's rocking a trade tag, yet commenting on other vendor's diamonds
Click to expand...


Good point, we should start reporting that.
 
Karl_K|1395155097|3636446 said:
It is all in how it is presented.
Trade members are held to a higher standard and should as much as possible deal with facts.
One persons odd is another's awesome.
It should be pointed out that they look different in some lighting and trade at a discount and caution should be used to avoid over blues.
However saying that it is bad or odd is personal opinion not fact and should be avoided by trade members.
You can say they look odd to you that is different from saying they are odd.
Click to expand...


This is great advice.
 
Rockdiamond|1395174697|3636693 said:
Dan- a few tips from a battle hardened veteran :)...
Please don't make absolute statements- for example- I will agree than many Strong blue stones will show effects in sunlight.
snip.....very strong blue stones have an odd look in sunlight....snip
Click to expand...
That is an an inaccurate statement. Many do, but certainly not all.
Adding a single word fixes this.
snip....very strong blue stones may have an odd look in sunlight...snip
I also would not use the word "odd" as some strong blue stones that do show effects may show effects that are very attractive to many observers.....but this is the type of statement that is subjective- which we're allowed to do as long as it's in general, not specifically directed at another vendor's stone.


If you feel the need to comment on a post that refers to any stone identified by vendor, you must be super careful.
Make sure you are NOT discussing the particular diamond being offered.
Make a general comment, which may help the consumer to understand something they may want to consider.
Like "I can't comment on that particular stone, but in general....."
Even then you can end up taking a bad path.

I hope this helps- it really does help everyone if there's more participation.
Click to expand...


And this is also great advice.


Dan, I know we all hope you stay and add to our community. And I hope you take the advice of Karl and David here on how to navigate the community rule and standards.

Your experience and insights are not the issue. As Karl and David have mentioned, it's a matter of how the information is presented.
 
I've been a PS lurker since 2007 (remember the spider web logo? :lol: ) and only registered in 2009. During the early years of my lurkdom, I find straight answers and detailed explanations to be abundant and very educational. However, during the last few years, there seems to be a trend of political correctness, which requires a great deal of reading between the lines to garner valuable advice. As PS becomes well known to the general public, there have been a lot of spammers and trolls around here, often brandishing the Trade logo. So some old-timers have been on guard and protective of the information being dispersed, and for that I'm grateful.

So please don't feel unwelcomed 30yearsofdiamonds! While I appreciated your input on my thread, there was no way of confirming your "real life" credentials/expertise. Now that I know your real name and credentials, I'm even more confident in your support of my stone. So thank you for your frank honesty. Please stay and contribute to this wonderful community!!!

A little bit off-topic, but for what it's worth: when I first registered for PS, the Trade logo was automatically there. It took me over a year to learn how to remove it from my profile. :rolleyes:
 
The way diamonds are graded, we can sort of pick and mix, what color we want, clarity and cut even, and then carat weight.
It means people have different opinions on what they want to spend on.

Diamonds are seen as an elite stone.

Fact is if you go fo top of every one of the four C's set down by the trade it would also include no flourescence, as it is
discounted and not seen as the best for the diamond.

There are not many vendors, or appraisers commenting here now like the old days. This board is run by consumers, who
are moving their budgets around and deciding what you need for a great diamond at a great price.

Thing is they are trying to say the equivalent of, a mediocre car is what you want for your and can drive you
where you we want so don't waste money on a Ferrari as you won't see the difference.

The trade are supporting the Ferrari as they are telling folks what are the best. Diamonds are supposed to be worn
by rich Kings, A list etc.

There was a dealer on the boards years ago who had a saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'.

Yes most don't notice the nuances, like a graphic equalizer or the best wine, but others do want the top of line diamonds
Most expensive is not always best but quality usually comes at a price in all things, food even.

At the end of the day it is up to each of us what we want to buy but
doesn't alter fact, can't buy a
D, 1ct Fl Ideal with the money for a G 1ct VS2 Ideal or vg, but if you have the money for the D you
could buy the G color as it is less. Is the diamond higher grade worth more or the change you would
get, but then spend on something else. Rich could buy lots of them but most people could only buy
one or so, therefore in their interest to only spend on what they need and use money wisely.
The rich don't worry about that. It used to be that diamonds were only worn by Royalty and only male Royalty.

This board is too much the otherway now, though, it used to be about getting education from those in the trade,
now the consumers are degrading what those in the trade say. They have an attitude that they know what is the
best diamond, when it is only the best diamond for people buying on a budget and not what a museum diamond would be.
 
I was very happy to have 30yearsofdiamonds on the threads the past week or do since he's been on. I learn something new every time I come on this forum.
 
You all know I'm direct. So here it is:

Laila, Pyramid, and Junebug--- Complaining about things is easy. You are more than welcome to actually start HELPING on RT regularly-- day in and day out--and affect the change you'd like to see.

Personally I don't find complaining about what others do credible and I don't respect it especially when none of you help out on RT regularly except to ditto the advice the rest of give and net nanny our manners.
 
Very strong fluorescence is really personal preference. I recall considering it for my e-ring but backed away because it was a bit "strange" as an ering although I thought it was super cool. I have since bought myself an overblue undesirable cloudy diamond but not as my e-ring.
 
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