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$30K Budget, help needed for the first diamond

delusion

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
20
pretty excited to buy my first ring, and luckily to find this useful forum, any help/advice is appreciated.

My current budget is $30k, we value Carat most and for rest, we just want the level which human eye cannot tell the difference. so our choices are like:

1) Cut
a) Excellent
or b) Very Good

2) Clarity
a) VVS1/VVS2
or b) VS1.
heard that VS1 is very similar to VVS1, is that true? if yes, i would go with VS1, otherwise, VVS1/VVS2.

3) Color -
a) F with Fluorescence NONE/FAINT
or b) G/H with Fluorescence Medium.

can anyone help advise which combination is minimum setting which human eye cannot tell difference? will 1b + 2b+ 3b look similar to 1b + 2b + 3a?

we also will go to Tiffany to try diamond out this week.

thanks in advance !
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Please don't let fluorescence be a factor. There's zero reason to want fl. in G-H and not in F. In fact, fl in F would have a good impact on pricing. Look for the best cut stone and then if you happen to find one with fl, then you can weigh it against your other options. VS1 is totally visually clean. I don't mind higher clarity than that, but I won't pay for it. Often VS2 is visually very clean, as well. F-G-H color is fine.

Eliminate 1b. Cut is THE most important factor in a diamond's beauty. You want either the best end of GIA Excellent cut or AGS Ideal cut.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

With your budget, I'd certainly go with superideal cuts. Let me see what I can find.
 

delusion

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
20

delusion

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
20
how do u think this one?

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD05993008

by inputting data into https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
it gave Total Visual Performance of 1.1


diamondseeker2006|1482882829|4109940 said:
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,257
Hi OP, I'm not even looking at your BN selection. It could be really nice, but with that budget, I would definitely consider WF and High Performance Diamonds over BN. WF (A cut above and expert selection) and HPD both vet their stones in house, and they cut their own too. WEll, HPD sells Crafted by Infinity stones, which are proprietary cuts, to the strictest standards, way more strict than stones from BN which are cut else (not proprietary) and the standards are definitely not as high.

CUT IS MOST IMPORTANT. TOP CUT. MINIMAL LIGHT LEAKAGE.

Since you are spending that much money, you obviously care about getting a top quality diamond. I think you owe it to yourself to do more research and consider these top cutters. Look them up here and go to their website to search their stones. These others are worth your time as well. All proprietary cuts. Super strict standards, meaning maximum sparkle and minimum light leakage.

Brian Gavin Diamonds
Good Old Gold - Ascendancy Hearts and Arrows.
Victor Canera - Canera Ideal Hearts
Whiteflash - A cut above
High Performance Diamonds - Crafted by Inifinity. These are so stunning. Edge to edge sparkle. IRL, they blow me away. Way more sparkly than my old BN (which I have since traded in.)

LOOK FOR A VENDOR THAT PROVIDES AN ASET IMAGE THAT SHOWS YOU THE LEAKAGE. ALL OF THE ABOVE DO, PLUS WHITEFLASH AND HIGH PERFORMANCE DIAMONDS. BN DOES NOT. Learn how to read an ASET image.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not


Just sharing quickly. I spent more than you on a MRB from BN and followed all the parameters. (3X, HCA under 2, etc.) Over time, I noticed dark areas, even within the parameters. I wanted to swap but BN's upgrade program is 2x the original. Could NOT afford that. I'd be looking at almost $80K. All of the vendors above have a more flexible upgrade program than BN. Even if you don't plan to, you just never know.

If you know the wearer is color sensitive, I would prioritize color after cut. The wearer should go and try different stones to see how much they care about color.

Then clarity or carat. Just depends. anything VS2 or better should be fine. You can call anyone of the vendors above and ask if the stone is eye clean for the clarity that you seek. VS2 - check with vendor. VS1 - you can still ask but chances are extremely high that it would be eye clean. But usually the inclusion would not impact performance or sparkle, which is what matters the most. The vendors who have the stones on site will tell you if the specific inclusion for that particular stone affects the brilliance of the diamond. Different inclusions do different things. BN would NOT be able to tell you that.

Please, for your price range, do yourself a favor and widen your search to these other vendors. Don't go the easy, take out menu approach by going just to BN. You won't regret it.

_38753.jpg
 

delusion

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
20
thank u very much ! sure, I will definitely check providers u mentioned.

thank u again and have a nice day!

LLJsmom|1482952005|4110073 said:
Hi OP, I'm not even looking at your BN selection. It could be really nice, but with that budget, I would definitely consider WF and High Performance Diamonds over BN. WF (A cut above and expert selection) and HPD both vet their stones in house, and they cut their own too. WEll, HPD sells Crafted by Infinity stones, which are proprietary cuts, to the strictest standards, way more strict than stones from BN which are cut else (not proprietary) and the standards are definitely not as high.

CUT IS MOST IMPORTANT. TOP CUT. MINIMAL LIGHT LEAKAGE.

Since you are spending that much money, you obviously care about getting a top quality diamond. I think you owe it to yourself to do more research and consider these top cutters. Look them up here and go to their website to search their stones. These others are worth your time as well. All proprietary cuts. Super strict standards, meaning maximum sparkle and minimum light leakage.

Brian Gavin Diamonds
Good Old Gold - Ascendancy Hearts and Arrows.
Victor Canera - Canera Ideal Hearts
Whiteflash - A cut above
High Performance Diamonds - Crafted by Inifinity. These are so stunning. Edge to edge sparkle. IRL, they blow me away. Way more sparkly than my old BN (which I have since traded in.)

LOOK FOR A VENDOR THAT PROVIDES AN ASET IMAGE THAT SHOWS YOU THE LEAKAGE. ALL OF THE ABOVE DO, PLUS WHITEFLASH AND HIGH PERFORMANCE DIAMONDS. BN DOES NOT. Learn how to read an ASET image.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not


Just sharing quickly. I spent more than you on a MRB from BN and followed all the parameters. (3X, HCA under 2, etc.) Over time, I noticed dark areas, even within the parameters. I wanted to swap but BN's upgrade program is 2x the original. Could NOT afford that. I'd be looking at almost $80K. All of the vendors above have a more flexible upgrade program than BN. Even if you don't plan to, you just never know.

If you know the wearer is color sensitive, I would prioritize color after cut. The wearer should go and try different stones to see how much they care about color.

Then clarity or carat. Just depends. anything VS2 or better should be fine. You can call anyone of the vendors above and ask if the stone is eye clean for the clarity that you seek. VS2 - check with vendor. VS1 - you can still ask but chances are extremely high that it would be eye clean. But usually the inclusion would not impact performance or sparkle, which is what matters the most. The vendors who have the stones on site will tell you if the specific inclusion for that particular stone affects the brilliance of the diamond. Different inclusions do different things. BN would NOT be able to tell you that.

Please, for your price range, do yourself a favor and widen your search to these other vendors. Don't go the easy, take out menu approach by going just to BN. You won't regret it.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,221
delusion,

You have (obviously) come to the right place.

In addition to the information provided above - and not to overwhelm you with information - you will want to look into and learn about reflector images (light performance images) - The Ideal-Scope and ASET. I would recommend you start with the parameters mentioned, determine a few diamonds that are 'eye-clean' (VS1 is a great place to start, as mentioned above) and then ask for Ideal-Scope and/or ASET (I prefer ASETs) of the diamonds and post those images back in this forum.

The experts here will surely help you determine which are the tops in terms of light performance.

Why are these images important, you may ask?

All of the numbers you are working with (Crown and Pavilion Angle specifically) are averages of different measurements that are then rounded to the nearest "X" depending upon the lab. 57 facets on a modern round brilliant each come into play for light performance. Think of each one as a little mirror (which will reflect light) or a window (which will allow light to pass through). You want all of these facets to be perfectly placed in order for the light to enter, hit a mirror, and come back out into the viewer's eyes. Minor differences can totally change the trajectory of the light patterns and, therefore, the light performance of the diamond.

Because you are dealing with rounded averages on a lab report, understand this: Two diamonds that have a lab report with identical carat, color, crown, pavilion, table and depth could have differing light performance due to the rounded averages.

The number for crown angle, for example, is a rounded average of 8 separate measurements, rounded to the nearest half degree. So a 34.5 means the average of 8 measurements might have actually been anywhere between a 34.3 - 34.7 on a report showing "34.5" and that is just that ONE averaged measurement. Now take that same process and apply it also to Pavilion angle, Lower Halves and Stars... you can see where this is going and how it could change the way light plays into and out of a diamond.

The very important Pavilion Angle is rounded to the nearest .2 so if you have 8 measurements that average to 40.9 in one diamond and that average to 41.1 in another, the report will still say "PA 40.0"- but the 'mirrors' will treat the light differently in the two diamonds - and produce different results.

The light performance images, then, are a good way to tell you exactly how the light plays and to measure the differences in how the 'mirrors' vs. 'windows' perform.

I hope that is all clear - happy hunting.
 

delusion

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 27, 2016
Messages
20
wow, learn new stuff everyday :angel:

will pay more attention to ideal-scope and aset now. will update aset image for diamonds we want to buy.

thanks again and appreciated!

Diamond_Hawk|1482954112|4110080 said:
delusion,

You have (obviously) come to the right place.

In addition to the information provided above - and not to overwhelm you with information - you will want to look into and learn about reflector images (light performance images) - The Ideal-Scope and ASET. I would recommend you start with the parameters mentioned, determine a few diamonds that are 'eye-clean' (VS1 is a great place to start, as mentioned above) and then ask for Ideal-Scope and/or ASET (I prefer ASETs) of the diamonds and post those images back in this forum.

The experts here will surely help you determine which are the tops in terms of light performance.

Why are these images important, you may ask?

All of the numbers you are working with (Crown and Pavilion Angle specifically) are averages of different measurements that are then rounded to the nearest "X" depending upon the lab. 57 facets on a modern round brilliant each come into play for light performance. Think of each one as a little mirror (which will reflect light) or a window (which will allow light to pass through). You want all of these facets to be perfectly placed in order for the light to enter, hit a mirror, and come back out into the viewer's eyes. Minor differences can totally change the trajectory of the light patterns and, therefore, the light performance of the diamond.

Because you are dealing with rounded averages on a lab report, understand this: Two diamonds that have a lab report with identical carat, color, crown, pavilion, table and depth could have differing light performance due to the rounded averages.

The number for crown angle, for example, is a rounded average of 8 separate measurements, rounded to the nearest half degree. So a 34.5 means the average of 8 measurements might have actually been anywhere between a 34.3 - 34.7 on a report showing "34.5" and that is just that ONE averaged measurement. Now take that same process and apply it also to Pavilion angle, Lower Halves and Stars... you can see where this is going and how it could change the way light plays into and out of a diamond.

The very important Pavilion Angle is rounded to the nearest .2 so if you have 8 measurements that average to 40.9 in one diamond and that average to 41.1 in another, the report will still say "PA 40.0"- but the 'mirrors' will treat the light differently in the two diamonds - and produce different results.

The light performance images, then, are a good way to tell you exactly how the light plays and to measure the differences in how the 'mirrors' vs. 'windows' perform.

I hope that is all clear - happy hunting.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
I just wanted to add that I had already looked at Good Old Gold and Victor Canera when I listed the other stones, because they do carry great diamonds but none close to the specs you wanted.

I would never spend $30k on a stone that has no pictures or light return images. The BN stone has a table over 58 which is larger than I like. It might be okay, but I still would not buy without actual magnified photos of the stone.
 
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