shape
carat
color
clarity

3 stone sapphire search & side proportions

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by tinkyy, Nov 2, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
  1. tinkyy
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    by tinkyy » Nov 2, 2004
    We''ve been fact finding for an e-ring (!) and have narrowed down our search to building our own three stone, platinum setting with a center 4 to 5 carat round brilliant cut blue sapphire with proportional round side stones that can be either diamonds or white sapphires. We''re looking for loose stones and then looking for a bench jeweler to either set or custom make a setting, all locally in NYC. The setting we chose is low and curved on the finger. Price range 10-15K, could be less by about 1/2 if we are careful and make the right choices. Price is also all over the place to the extreme ... h e l p ...

    I really need help here, we almost made a very costly mistake in the NYC diamond district and I am smarting from the close call and am still doing research trying to learn more so I can spot a scam next time...

    1. One retail jeweler told us (sapphire) rounds are easy to find in our size. Several said impossible, very rare! What''s the story, and where do I go in NYC for a selection of loose colored gems? Anyone have a wholesale connection?

    2. Heat treated is fine with me, non heat treated are also around, but for $2500 per Carat more. Is this worth it, I can''t really see the difference when they''re set.

    2.5 The premier non-heat treated sapphire dealer (where we went by personal introduction and appointment) in the diamond district gave us the choice of ONE stone in our price range, not even in our shape. My attitide, while it was a lovely stone my $$ is good everywhere and look until we find what WE want, not what''s in inventory. Quite an experience.

    3. Color is all over the place. My eyes are tired from reading gem guidebooks!

    4. We were told by a few jewelers that white sapphire would balance nicely on the sides and is a low cost alternative, told by others that white sapphire isn''t brilliant enough in a round cut, and don''t bother using them they will deaden the center stone. My question here, white sapphire is about $100 in 8mm size, diamond G or H SI1 about 2000$ each for .90 c. Since there is a several thousand dollar price difference, and a size difference between sapphire and diamonds, can we use brilliant cut round white sapphires for the side stones?

    5. Tiffany was no help at all. Not impressed with their selection. They wouldn''t even show us matching wedding bands until we bought the ring!!

    6. Is there a good way to figure out the difference in carat weight between diamond and sapphire? Like how big in diamond-speak is that 4.5 c sapphire so we can figure out the side stone proportions.

    7. How low of a quality diamond can we go on the side stones?

    8. What is the proportion of center to side stones? Tiffany does 2/3rds of the center on round all diamond, but that seems a bit large and unwieldy with a center blue sapphire of our desired size. We''ve seen 4 carat sapphire center with 1.17 total weight diamond sides that''s nice. Is this reasonable proportions?

    9. A diamond band is our choice, diamonds on the front of the ring, (about 5 or 7 or 9 total) what size should these diamonds be to be in proportion to the three-stone ring and side stones?

    10. How many $$ per carat for a heat treated blue sapphire good/great quailty? We''ve heard $800 to $1100/carat to $3200/carat...

    11. Any one know a reputable bench jeweler in NYC or a place to buy a ready made setting without the exorbitant mark up?

    12. Where do we have the stones appraised after purchase, and do we wait till the piece is set or do them loose first?

    13. We know exactly what we want & have invested many hours into the research, but are really scared because we know we look like hicks with money to these guys...

    THANK YOU so much for your thoughts!
     
    


    


  2. Mayacamas
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    84
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    by Mayacamas » Nov 2, 2004

    Hi


    I posted my ring about 10 days ago- (See Sapphire bling) it is a 4.84 carat blue sapphire with 0.75 ct pears as sides. I think the proportions work out well and I have to admit I spent about 15 minutes choosing diamonds and about 9 month finding a sapphire.

    If I can be of any service will you please private message me and I will respond

    good luck

    Halee
     
  3. bar01
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    622
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    by bar01 » Nov 2, 2004
     
  4. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    23,295
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    by strmrdr » Nov 2, 2004
    "4 to 5 carat round brilliant cut blue sapphire "

    That will be a rare beast and hard to find.
    4 to 5ct stones arent to common to start with.
    Then most sapphire rough is more suited to be cut into ovals than rounds.
    Then factor in that the RB cut inst always a suitable cut for sapphire to get top color out of it.
    It adds up to some hard looking being required.
     
    


    


  5. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    23,295
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
  6. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    23,295
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
  7. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    23,295
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
  8. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    23,295
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
  9. windowshopper
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,023
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    by windowshopper » Nov 2, 2004
    To Tinkyy:

    May I ask where you went for sapphires? Did you try Walter Arnstein? Just curious I have been to see the stones at Walter Arnstein and was very impressed but don;t know who else is considered really top notch for sapphires
    WS
     
  10. Richard Sherwood
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,924
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    by Richard Sherwood » Nov 2, 2004
    Loved your informative post, Bar. You have become a sapphire afficianado.

    I just wanted to make one small correction on your statement:

    --------------
    A trained gemologist can tell (but not for certain) if a stone has been heat treated. Usually this takes a major lab like
    AGTA to determine (most of the time) if it has been treated.
    --------------

    In the vast majority of cases, a gemologist who is well trained in detecting treatments can tell for certain if a stone has been heat treated or not.

    The key to detecting heat treatment is examination of the inclusions. Heat treatment alters their look, and a positive ID can usually be made by gemologists trained in this area.
     
    


    


  11. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    15,809
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2003
    by valeria101 » Nov 2, 2004
    What more to say? [​IMG]


    It is such a pity that you were given conflicting advice while shopping. Perhaps it would do some good to erase all that and look up just a couple of independent sources - if not from the trade (this is nearly impossible), at least not interested in the sale.

    Books sounds good - just not a shopping guide. Perhaps Ruby&Sapphire was already mentioned. Sapphire or no sapphire, this one makes a nice read too. Even the website cares to put things into perspective - other than the jewelr''s counter (LINK).


    Actually, your post may be the first time I heard that large round sapphires are common. If one jeweler happens to have one, yes, sure, otherwise no way - especially anything larger than a pinpoint.


    Blue Sapphire & White sapphire sounds delightful. More so than round diamond sides.

    You may hear yet another story, that less brilliant diamond cuts (say, trillions or baguettes as opposed to rounds) match better with color stones since they do not outshine them. I guess this could be called "redundant refinement", but to me it makes sense. You may want to give a thought t this before going for diamond sides - especially if larger rounds are considered.

    White sapphire is quite brilliant on it''s own, but lacks fire compared to diamond. It makes a precious diamond substitute (not the case here, just in general), but the look is way different. It is not too hard to find finely cut white sapphire to see for yourself. For better or worse, these are meant as diamond stand-inns.


    Surely hope we''ll see your wonderful project taking shape on and off Pricescope ! [​IMG]
     
  12. day_lily_me
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    by day_lily_me » Nov 10, 2004
    Tinkyy I''ve sent you a PM since what I have to say is probably more than the rest of the group wants to hear. And I think they have given you plenty of starting places.
     
  13. windowshopper
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,023
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    by windowshopper » Nov 22, 2004

    CHECK OUT WWW.ESTATEDIAMONDJEWELRY.COM



    3 Stone Sapphire & Diamond Ring

    Elegant sapphire and diamond three stone ring set in platinum. The beautiful fine Ceylon sapphire weights approximately 2.71 carats and total weight of the two old-mine cut diamonds is approximately 1.12 carats, G-H color and VS clarity. Six small diamonds on the shank enhance the beauty of the mounting.


    Price: $10,500.00
    Sale: $8,500.00
    Item: 4471



     
  14. tinkyy
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    11
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    by tinkyy » Nov 22, 2004
    Wow. Thanks. Good sleuthing on the ''net! Is this price reasonable I wonder? Mine cut diamonds are how old, from the 1920''s or ''30''s or earlier? That would make the ceylon center sapphire unheat treated, if it''s the same age, true?

    Are you going to see this one? we''re leaving early for the holiday, so will have to take our chances...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

Share This Page