2 quotes from jeweler’s mutual- please help

[Dmndsr4evr11]

Happy holidays!

I recently upgraded my ring and in the past, I’ve insured my previous e-rings through my homeowners. After reading posts here though, it seems wiser to insure it separately instead of adding it to homeowners.

I had the ring appraised by a local jeweler and they automatically sent in a request for free quote to jewelers mutual. Their value came in about $2000 less than what Whiteflash quoted as a value but $4000 more than what I paid for it. Whiteflash’s value is $6000 more than what I paid for it.

Knock on wood, in my 27 years of marriage, I have not lost a piece of jewelry. Well, I almost lost an anniversary band this past weekend but that’s for another thread . Since Whiteflash sent in my info too, how do I proceed as I have 2 quotes. I want to make sure if I ever have to replace this ring that it would have the best representation of the ring on my policy. The Whiteflash one of course says ACA, super ideal. The other jeweler says excellent cutting with the appropriate color, clarity, carat size, measurement and included the AGS number. The difference in the quote is not a lot. Only a difference of about $30 but I want to make sure I do the right thing and be covered appropriately and get the proper replacement if needed.

Thanks so much!!!

 

[SimoneDi]

In the event of loss/damage, Jewelers Mutual will only pay out an amount for a comparable stone. I would look at WF inventory and see how much are the comparable stones. Likely, close to what JM estimated to be the replacement value. You don’t want to pay unnecessarily high premiums, but you want to be adequately covered. This is why it is important to have updated apparaisals every few years or so in order to reflect the current replacement value.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

In the event of loss/damage, Jewelers Mutual will only pay out an amount for a comparable stone. I would look at WF inventory and see how much are the comparable stones. Likely, close to what JM estimated to be the replacement value. You don’t want to pay unnecessarily high premiums, but you want to be adequately covered. This is why it is important to have updated apparaisals every few years or so in order to reflect the current replacement value.

Thank you, SimoneDi.

Whiteflash’s replacement value is $2000 more than the local jeweler’s appraisal (although it is $4000 more than what I paid Whiteflash). The premium between the two is about only $30 difference but I want to make sure I get the proper replacement in the event of loss or theft. So wondering if I should just go with the Whiteflash quote or the local jeweler. I want to be sure it will be appropriately replaced if it gets lost or stolen but I don’t want to overpay in premium either.

I hope I am asking my question clearly.

Thank you.

 

[SimoneDi]

Thank you, SimoneDi.

Whiteflash’s replacement value is $2000 more than the local jeweler’s appraisal (although it is $4000 more than what I paid Whiteflash). The premium between the two is about only $30 difference but I want to make sure I get the proper replacement in the event of loss or theft. So wondering if I should just go with the Whiteflash quote or the local jeweler. I want to be sure it will be appropriately replaced if it gets lost or stolen but I don’t want to overpay in premium either.

I hope I am asking my question clearly.

Thank you.

With both appraisals, you will be overpaykgn a little bit, but diamond prices fluctuate, so being insured for a little bit over your actual cost is ok.

Nonetheless, the most important will be to insure that the appraisal that you have lists accurately what you have - a super ideal diamond from Whiteflash and not a “generic” AGS000 or GIAXXX.

Additionally, appraisals do not establish ownership unless specifically listed, please make sure hat is included.

Lastly, you can also appraise your stone with your sales receipt. That is sufficient for now as well.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

With both appraisals, you will be overpaykgn a little bit, but diamond prices fluctuate, so being insured for a little bit over your actual cost is ok.

Nonetheless, the most important will be to insure that the appraisal that you have lists accurately what you have - a super ideal diamond from Whiteflash and not a “generic” AGS000 or GIAXXX.

Additionally, appraisals do not establish ownership unless specifically listed, please make sure hat is included.

Lastly, you can also appraise your stone with your sales receipt. That is sufficient for now as well.

Thanks so much! Much appreciated! The local jeweler does not claim ownership of the stone in the appraisal. They did include the AGS number on the appraisal and the certificate lists the stone as ACA so I hope it satisfies that requirement.

Thanks again!

 

[kmoro]

Hmmm. If it was me, I would pay the extra $30 for the appraisal that indicates ACA super ideal, since the other appraisal would include all inventory, including virtual.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

Hmmm. If it was me, I would pay the extra $30 for the appraisal that indicates ACA super ideal, since the other appraisal would include all inventory, including virtual.

Thanks, Kmoro. Even if it includes the AGS certificate number on the appraisal which clearly indicates it’s an ACA? That’s what I want to make sure of. That it will be apples to apples when and if it comes to replacement.

I got the appraisal done from a local jeweler as I thought I would just attach it to my homeowner’s again but after reading many posts here, I think it would be wise to do a standalone instead.

Also, the replacement value was on my profile already when I clicked the “get your free quote” link from Whiteflash but I didn’t get any paperwork from them indicating a replacement value. I only have the receipt for what I paid for. I guess I will need this paperwork from them to submit to jeweler’s mutual.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

 

[kmoro]

Thanks, Kmoro. Even if it includes the AGS certificate number on the appraisal which clearly indicates it’s an ACA? That’s what I want to make sure of. That it will be apples to apples when and if it comes to replacement.

I got the appraisal done from a local jeweler as I thought I would just attach it to my homeowner’s again but after reading many posts here, I think it would be wise to do a standalone instead.

Also, the replacement value was on my profile already when I clicked the “get your free quote” link from Whiteflash but I didn’t get any paperwork from them indicating a replacement value. I only have the receipt for what I paid for. I guess I will need this paperwork from them to submit to jeweler’s mutual.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

The thing is, not all AGS000 are ACA - that’s a distinction only Whiteflash makes. But you’re right, if the AGS certificate itself indicates ACA (I saw one on WF that was ACA but the cert only said “platinum”), then you have a leg to stand on, so to speak. Otherwise, the jeweler has indicated “excellent”, which is not the AGS term (“ideal”) so it wiuld include GIA with those parameters.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

The thing is, not all AGS000 are ACA - that’s a distinction only Whiteflash makes. But you’re right, if the AGS certificate itself indicates ACA (I saw one on WF that was ACA but the cert only said “platinum”), then you have a leg to stand on, so to speak. Otherwise, the jeweler has indicated “excellent”, which is not the AGS term (“ideal”) so it wiuld include GIA with those parameters.

Great point! Thanks so much, kmoro.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

The thing is, not all AGS000 are ACA - that’s a distinction only Whiteflash makes. But you’re right, if the AGS certificate itself indicates ACA (I saw one on WF that was ACA but the cert only said “platinum”), then you have a leg to stand on, so to speak. Otherwise, the jeweler has indicated “excellent”, which is not the AGS term (“ideal”) so it wiuld include GIA with those parameters.

Kmoro, I just insured it through Whiteflash’s declared value. Oh well, just wasted $ on the local jeweler’s appraisal but I’d rather be safe then sorry although I am overpaying a little bit. By how much, I don’t know as Whiteflash’s declared value is roughly $6000 more than what I paid for. I just don’t want to wear it uninsured.

Don’t know if I should keep it as is with the declared value or if I should call to amend it with the price I paid instead. Thoughts? I totally get that diamond prices fluctuate and as I see it WF ACA has been increasing so may be best to leave it the way it is?

Thanks so much again.

 

[SimoneDi]

Kmoro, I just insured it through Whiteflash’s declared value. Oh well, just wasted $ on the local jeweler’s appraisal but I’d rather be safe then sorry although I am overpaying a little bit. By how much, I don’t know as Whiteflash’s declared value is roughly $6000 more than what I paid for. I just don’t want to wear it uninsured.

Don’t know if I should keep it as is with the declared value or if I should call to amend it with the price I paid instead. Thoughts? I totally get that diamond prices fluctuate and as I see it WF ACA has been increasing so may be best to leave it the way it is?

Thanks so much again.

As I said before, you can simply insure it with your sales receipt/invoice. You don’t have to use WF appraisal. If you leave it as is, you will be paying insurance on $6k extra which will never benefit you, unless the price for a comparable stone increases with $6k.

Can you post a copy of your appraisal minus any personal details? We don’t know how well or not the local appraisal documented your stone.

 

[kmoro]

Kmoro, I just insured it through Whiteflash’s declared value. Oh well, just wasted $ on the local jeweler’s appraisal but I’d rather be safe then sorry although I am overpaying a little bit. By how much, I don’t know as Whiteflash’s declared value is roughly $6000 more than what I paid for. I just don’t want to wear it uninsured.

Don’t know if I should keep it as is with the declared value or if I should call to amend it with the price I paid instead. Thoughts? I totally get that diamond prices fluctuate and as I see it WF ACA has been increasing so may be best to leave it the way it is?

Thanks so much again.

Your very welcome! However, just my thoughts.

I just insured an ACA with JM for the reason that I just want to feel safe that if, god forbid, there is a claim, I know the described item is exactly what I purchased. But ... I am an accountant ... and I have the typical accountant adversity to risk. I do think I could have insured for less, but honestly, I don’t care. The premium was reasonable still in my eyes.

As for the inflated value ... it is really standard. Yes, you do pay a higher premium, but again, you are then safe if the price of diamonds go up .. a lot, lol (it’s my observation that they don’t).

As I said before, you can simply insure it with your sales receipt/invoice. You don’t have to use WF appraisal. If you leave it as is, you will be paying insurance on $6k extra which will never benefit you, unless the price for a comparable stone increases with $6k.

Can you post a copy of your appraisal minus any personal details? We don’t know how well or not the local appraisal documented your stone.

Just want to point out that the OP is talking about paying premiums on a $2000 difference, not a $6000 difference. The WF partnered appraisal was for $6000 more than paid, and the other appraisal was for $4000 more than paid. A $30 difference in an annual premium.

 

[LLJsmom]

Your very welcome! However, just my thoughts.

I just insured an ACA with JM for the reason that I just want to feel safe that if, god forbid, there is a claim, I know the described item is exactly what I purchased. But ... I am an accountant ... and I have the typical accountant adversity to risk. I do think I could have insured for less, but honestly, I don’t care. The premium was reasonable still in my eyes.

As for the inflated value ... it is really standard. Yes, you do pay a higher premium, but again, you are then safe if the price of diamonds go up .. a lot, lol (it’s my observation that they don’t).



Just want to point out that the OP is talking about paying premiums on a $2000 difference, not a $6000 difference. The WF partnered appraisal was for $6000 more than paid, and the other appraisal was for $4000 more than paid. A $30 difference in an annual premium.

Agree. If I lost an ACA I would want an ACA back. $30 is a minimal cost for that. I would not assume that the appraisal without ACA being specified would result in you getting an ACA if you lost your stone.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

Agree. If I lost an ACA I would want an ACA back. $30 is a minimal cost for that. I would not assume that the appraisal without ACA being specified would result in you getting an ACA if you lost your stone.

Thank you, LLJsmom. I was also thinking of the much higher replacement value both Whiteflash and local jeweler quoted. Whiteflash came in at $2000 more than the local jeweler. I understand you want it at a higher valuation as diamond prices fluctuate and from what I’ve seen they haven’t gone down in prices especially the ACAs so although I don’t want to overpay for a premium, I think it would be safer to just go with Whiteflash’s quote than the local jeweler’s. I didn’t get a written appraisal from Whiteflash though. It was just prefilled on JM’s free quote so I need to ask for a copy for my own record. I never got one for the other 2 diamonds I bought from them previously either. I got my own appraisal from a local jeweler and had it tacked on to my homeowner’s. I decided to do stand-alone now as it’s a more expensive stone and based my decision on everything I’ve read here.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

 

[kmoro]

Thank you, LLJsmom. I was also thinking of the much higher replacement value both Whiteflash and local jeweler quoted. Whiteflash came in at $2000 more than the local jeweler. I understand you want it at a higher valuation as diamond prices fluctuate and from what I’ve seen they haven’t gone down in prices especially the ACAs so although I don’t want to overpay for a premium, I think it would be safer to just go with Whiteflash’s quote than the local jeweler’s. I didn’t get a written appraisal from Whiteflash though. It was just prefilled on JM’s free quote so I need to ask for a copy for my own record. I never got one for the other 2 diamonds I bought from them previously either. I got my own appraisal from a local jeweler and had it tacked on to my homeowner’s. I decided to do stand-alone now as it’s a more expensive stone and based my decision on everything I’ve read here.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

I just insured without a technical appraisal ... I’m pretty sure the description, invoice, picture, and replacement value in the policy totals the equivalent of an appraisal. An appraisal is nothing but an assessment of replacement value for
Insurance purposes ... through WF and JM, you already have that.

Oh - I also asked an independent appraiser years ago - he said the standard was 1.6 times cost for replacement value for insurance purposes ... it’s always inflated for insurance purposes - some companies more and some less. If you want to know current market value, you need to request that from the appraiser ... there is a distinct difference between current market value and value for insurance purposes. Insurance companies get more in premiums and you are protected against crazy inflation (lol)

 

[Karl_K]

No matter which value you use keep an eye on diamond prices at least once a year and make sure you have enough insurance.
Historically yearly increases as high as 15%+ are not unheard of in some sizes.
If it will ever get that high an increase again I can not say but it could.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

I just insured without a technical appraisal ... I’m pretty sure the description, invoice, picture, and replacement value in the policy totals the equivalent of an appraisal. An appraisal is nothing but an assessment of replacement value for
Insurance purposes ... through WF and JM, you already have that.

Oh - I also asked an independent appraiser years ago - he said the standard was 1.6 times cost for replacement value for insurance purposes ... it’s always inflated for insurance purposes - some companies more and some less. If you want to know current market value, you need to request that from the appraiser ... there is a distinct difference between current market value and value for insurance purposes. Insurance companies get more in premiums and you are protected against crazy inflation (lol)

Thank you, Kmoro!

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

No matter which value you use keep an eye on diamond prices at least once a year and make sure you have enough insurance.
Historically yearly increases as high as 15%+ are not unheard of in some sizes.
If it will ever get that high an increase again I can not say but it could.

Thanks, Karl K.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

@Karl_K @kmoro @LLJsmom @SimoneDi

So I ended up just insuring it with using Whiteflash’s replacement value. It’s $5160 more than what I paid for with setting included as the other appraisal although included the AGS report stating it’s ACA didn’t put that on the appraisal itself and wrote “excellent cutting” versus ideal. With the $30 difference, I just went with whiteflash’s value. Guess I just wasted $65 for the local jeweler’s appraisal but oh well, live and learn. It could have been more expensive.

I just got my policy in the mail. Although the link Whiteflash sent to JM clearly indicated the details of the stone, the description only states “ladies engagement ring”. They do have a copy of the original receipt stating the color, clarity, and that it is ACA. Shouldn’t the policy itself have all those details written on it?

Anyone who has JM have the specifics of the diamond written on the description of the policy they sent you in the mail?

Thank you!!!

 

[SimoneDi]

@Dmndsr4evr11 it is typical just to see ladies engagement ring on the summary sheet from JM. That is what I have as well.

The value of the insurance is quite a bit more than current market value. I am not a huge fan of inflated appraisals, but you will be protected against increasing diamond prices.

Since the local appraisal is pretty recent, I will actually ask the appraiser to edit it and include the ACA details in case you ever want to lower your insurance premium.

 

[kal2021]

Kmoro, I just insured it through Whiteflash’s declared value. Oh well, just wasted $ on the local jeweler’s appraisal but I’d rather be safe then sorry although I am overpaying a little bit. By how much, I don’t know as Whiteflash’s declared value is roughly $6000 more than what I paid for. I just don’t want to wear it uninsured.

Don’t know if I should keep it as is with the declared value or if I should call to amend it with the price I paid instead. Thoughts? I totally get that diamond prices fluctuate and as I see it WF ACA has been increasing so may be best to leave it the way it is?

Thanks so much again.

Did you have to ask WF for an appraisal or was it included with your purchase? I just bought an ACA and figured I would have to get an independent appraisal.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

Did you have to ask WF for an appraisal or was it included with your purchase? I just bought an ACA and figured I would have to get an independent appraisal.

Appraisal is not included with WF. They had the replacement value quoted on the link they send you after the purchase and that’s what JM was going by. I sent them a copy of the receipt with the actual price paid and they gave me the option to lower it to that price or keep it at what WF wrote down as a replacement value. Or, they said I could send them an independent appraisal if I wanted the insured value to be different than what WF quoted which I have but was concerned that although it included the AGS certificate that says ACA, it says “excellent cutting” which is not in line with AGS’ “ideal” cutting lingo. It was a $30 difference in premium so I just went with the original WF replacement value. The replacement value was $2000 difference between WF and the local jeweler’s.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

@Dmndsr4evr11 it is typical just to see ladies engagement ring on the summary sheet from JM. That is what I have as well.

The value of the insurance is quite a bit more than current market value. I am not a huge fan of inflated appraisals, but you will be protected against increasing diamond prices.

Since the local appraisal is pretty recent, I will actually ask the appraiser to edit it and include the ACA details in case you ever want to lower your insurance premium.

Thank you, @SimoneDi. I was thinking of that. It’s only a difference of $30 in premium ($2000 difference between WF’s replacement value and local appraisal) but I can still ask him if he can amend the appraisal to reflect super ideal and ask if he can include the ACA wording. Thanks again!

 

[kmoro]

Thank you, @SimoneDi. I was thinking of that. It’s only a difference of $30 in premium ($2000 difference between WF’s replacement value and local appraisal) but I can still ask him if he can amend the appraisal to reflect super ideal and ask if he can include the ACA wording. Thanks again!

I could be wrong, but the appraiser may be restricted to certain terminology - and while the appraiser can list the specifications, it may be a stretch to ask them to write “super ideal”’... and I doubt hey are allowed to use the terminology “ACA” or “A Cut Above” unless they can specificity mention Whiteflash ..

I’m just guessing - maybe someone else can chime in here?

 

[LLJsmom]

I told my insurer that I wanted specific language in the description. Victor Canera. I think it even says old European cut.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

I told my insurer that I wanted specific language in the description. Victor Canera. I think it even says old European cut.

Who did you insure with? Thanks, @LLJsmom.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

I could be wrong, but the appraiser may be restricted to certain terminology - and while the appraiser can list the specifications, it may be a stretch to ask them to write “super ideal”’... and I doubt hey are allowed to use the terminology “ACA” or “A Cut Above” unless they can specificity mention Whiteflash ..

I’m just guessing - maybe someone else can chime in here?

Thanks, @kmoro. I will call him and ask. I will also call JM to make sure they have my ring listed as an ACA as they have a copy of the original receipt with the details.

 

[SimoneDi]

I could be wrong, but the appraiser may be restricted to certain terminology - and while the appraiser can list the specifications, it may be a stretch to ask them to write “super ideal”’... and I doubt hey are allowed to use the terminology “ACA” or “A Cut Above” unless they can specificity mention Whiteflash ..

I’m just guessing - maybe someone else can chime in here?

Based on my experience they can indicate where the stone was purchase from. Nonetheless, even the AGS certificate is sufficient to link the stone back to the original vendor.

Lastly, JM is a wonderful insurance company and very easy to work with when needing to file a claim. They give their customers the liberty of choosing the replacement vendor.

 

[LLJsmom]

Who did you insure with? Thanks, @LLJsmom.

I think I have Nationwide. It’s a separate policy. It’s not cheap but I think it’s comparable to JM.

 

[denverappraiser]

For insurance uses, the appraisal you submit is, in effect, the purchase order for the replacement. The company is agreeing to replace the item with another of ‘like kind and quality’, or words to that effect, in the case of a loss. They are NOT agreeing to a particular price.

In the case of ACAs, and most other brands, the brand is part of the specs. They can argue that some other brand is ‘like kind and quality’, and then they get to have a fight about it if you want, but that tends to annoy customers and it’s not necessary if the original seller is available and reasonable. That means that the first place they go on a branded item is to the authorized sellers of the brand. In the case of ACA, there’s only one. WF.

So what will WF charge to sell you another one like it? Usually, that’s pretty straightforward. It may or may not be what you paid, especially if it’s been a while, but they publicly publish their prices for all to see and they don't have a super wide range of bizzaro stuff. ACA is a pretty narrow set of specs. You may benefit by a bit of fudging for inflation because you don’t know the date of this hypothetical loss, and don’t forget sales taxes which you may or may not have paid and that the insurance company WILL have to pay, but within a few limits, there’s your replacement value.

Which report best describes the specs is going to depend on the author and how they approached it. For the stone itself, including the AGS report as a spec automatically includes the ACA branding because it’s on that report. I would be more inclined to look at the photos and the description section on the piece. Weight, stone counts, grades on the side stones, designer, that sort of thing. AGS doesn’t have that, it’s often not a particular maker or model number, and it’s an easy opportunity for trouble at replacement time.