2.5-3ct Antique Cushion Advice Please! (ASETs/links inc)

[RSB]

Hello, I have spent the last several months researching on Pricescope and elsewhere and am finally getting ready to purchase the engagement ring diamond. It's certainly about time as my incredibly patient fiancee has been waiting since the relatively unplanned proposal back in June!

I have been searching for an approximate 2.5-3ct antique style cushion; color F-H; clarity VS1-eyeclean SI1. Of course, I am looking for the best cut possible and would be willing to consider stones outside these ranges for the right larger diamond. My budget is around $35K although I would be willing to go up to $40K for the perfect stone. I have been stalking several vendors for some time, including GOG, ERD, and JA and nothing has really jumped out at me.

It seems that JA has been carrying more 8 main cushions of late and I recently ran across a 2.56ct G VS1 with a decent spread, which hasn't been so easy to find. They suggested I also select another diamond or two for comparison purposes and I picked a 2.46ct G VS1, which I wasn't interested in specifically.

I just received the ASETs with the gemologist stating that while "both diamonds offer a great amount of fire and are absolutely gorgeous", the smaller diamond "has a very tiny bit more brilliance". There is indeed more red in the 2.46ct ASET yet I am attracted to the larger face up size of the 2.56ct and am wondering if the faceting is a bit crisper with less mushiness under the table, if that makes any sense?

I wasn't really considering the smaller stone as it was meant for comparison purposes only and am open to any other suggestions. I was wondering if the differences between the static ASET images would translate into a clear difference in light performance between the two IRL? Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

http://www.jamesallen.com/?q=180792...cut/2.56-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-sku-178361



http://www.jamesallen.com/?q=180792...cut/2.46-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-sku-183253

 

[kalima]

Look for better, if jamesallen doesn't have anymore try ERD, Leon Mege, Victor Canera, Good Old Gold.
I wouldn't mention spread and just call and ask to see all examples they have, they may have unlisted ones.

 

[RSB]

Thanks, Kalima. I just spoke with a rep at James Allen and apparently there is some IT difficulty with of many of the links aren't working, which they are trying to fix.
Since the specs aren't currently accesible by link, the larger stone has a depth of 66.9% and table of 58% with measurements of 8.61x7.69x5.14 (I don't have the exact numbers for the smaller stone but the depth is closer to 69%). I've seen a number of beautiful antique style cushions here with depths down to around 65% so it's my understanding that a depth 66.9% wouldn't be considered too shallow for an antique style cushion?

 

[kalima]

Thanks, Kalima. I just spoke with a rep at James Allen and apparently there is some IT difficulty with of many of the links aren't working, which they are trying to fix.
Since the specs aren't currently accesible by link, the larger stone has a depth of 66.9% and table of 58% with measurements of 8.61x7.69x5.14 (I don't have the exact numbers for the smaller stone but the depth is closer to 69%). I've seen a number of beautiful antique style cushions here with depths down to around 65% so it's my understanding that a depth 66.9% wouldn't be considered too shallow for an antique style cushion?

For the antique/vintage 8 main cushion style I would look for Table 56% or less. The bigger this number the shorter the crown height. For me 58% is too large a table in this style and may indicate a moderate instead of tall crown height.

For Depth anything in the 65% - 70% would be ideal. Shallower than this you tend to get leakage and longer light paths. Deeper than 70% you get poorer spread. 66.9% would be great for an overall depth but if it is coupled with a 58% table this would mean short crown, deep pavilion which is not the recipe for the brightest stones.

Depth% and Table% numbers only tell a part of the story, you can generally reject stones outside these numbers but can't use the numbers to select a winner. There are too many other facets not shown on a lab report and the alignment of all facets with one another dictates how bright the stone can be. I am not loving those two ASET image,s too much black/green not enough red.

Granted at 2.5 - 3 ct you may not be able to find an abundance of choice I think you can still find better within your budget. I'd call each vendor instead of just checking their site.

 

[04diamond<3]

the second stone has the better aset. What's your budget?

 

[RSB]

Around $35K but would be willing to go up to $40K for the perfect diamond and would consider between 2.4-3.1cts I'm trying not to get too caught up in all the numbers as I understand they're only a small part of the story for cushions but would naturally prefer to not give too much spread to an overly deep stone.

 

[04diamond<3]

Here's a gorgeous one!

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/3.01-carat-h-vs2-a-cut-beyond-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-101695.html

or this:

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/2.52-carat-g-vs2-a-cut-beyond-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-108132.html

from JA:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/2.72-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-189403

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-203922

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.01-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-184934

 

[JulieN]

http://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/de5cbg

 

[JulieN]

This is not an antique cushion. But it is very big! http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/2.48-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-140734

It also looks bright, not much mush. Might have a bowtie, though.

 

[kalima]

http://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/de5cbg

Best cut by far of all the options and it fits the budget. A premium must be paid for E color but i think its worth it.
Given the competitive pricing I'd see if Victor had any in G or H color a little larger.

 

[RSB]

Thanks for the suggestions 04, JulieN and kalima! One of the only preferences that I've been able to elicit from the FI (and not for lack of trying) is that she'd specifically like an antique style cushion. I've actually had my eye on the posted ERD stones and will give Mark a call to see if he may also have any other stones that are not posted on the website as nothing new in that size range has popped up for a while.

I've also noticed the Canera cushion as well which looks beautiful. My hesitation is that it's on the smaller end of size spectrum and may not be mind-clean enough for me as this particular SI1 has a dark inclusion under the table that may be visible on very close inspection--it may be worth taking a look anyway. I've also asked VC about anything else in the pipeline and there's nothing that size or larger being cut at the moment. Same goes for GOG AVC's...

 

[JulieN]

Leon Mege might have some that fit your specs.

 

[kalima]

Thanks for the suggestions 04, JulieN and kalima! One of the only preferences that I've been able to elicit from the FI (and not for lack of trying) is that she'd specifically like an antique style cushion. I've actually had my eye on the posted ERD stones and will give Mark a call to see if he may also have any other stones that are not posted on the website as nothing new in that size range has popped up for a while.

I've also noticed the Canera cushion as well which looks beautiful. My hesitation is that it's on the smaller end of size spectrum and may not be mind-clean enough for me as this particular SI1 has a dark inclusion under the table that may be visible on very close inspection--it may be worth taking a look anyway. I've also asked VC about anything else in the pipeline and there's nothing that size or larger being cut at the moment. Same goes for GOG AVC's...

Can you make a trip out to NYC, perhaps you can see in person all in one day the best ERD, LM and JA have for you and make your choice in person. I really am not a fan of those black ASET images they hide leakage and obscure fine details. If you are considering the suggestions in this thread that would be the best way. Alternatively sending 2 or 3 to an appraiser local to you might be another option.

 

[RSB]

I've actually considered making the trip to NYC to do just that and think it would probably be worth it considering the budget. At the very least it would make sense to have a couple of different stones shipped to be able to compare in person.

I also find it difficult, if not impossible, to differentiate obstruction from leakage in the ASETs with black backgrounds; comparing the black background ASETs to those using white backgrounds almost seems like comparing apples to oranges.

Does anyone happen to know if Perry Chen offers ASET evaluations as well?

 

[ariel144]

this one will face up the largest and is a nicely faceted OMB, don't know how much that buggar will show up under the table but worth checking out as an SI1. the high crown, small table, and Kozibe effect are really lovely!

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.30-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-184949

Have your read the thread on this awesome honker 5c J color in a halo from Leon?

You can read her testimony of how long she looked for just the right stone at over 5c and how white her GIA J color faces up on pg 3.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/[/URL]

 

[ariel144]

I've actually considered making the trip to NYC to do just that and think it would probably be worth it considering the budget. At the very least it would make sense to have a couple of different stones shipped to be able to compare in person.

I also find it difficult, if not impossible, to differentiate obstruction from leakage in the ASETs with black backgrounds; comparing the black background ASETs to those using white backgrounds almost seems like comparing apples to oranges.

Does anyone happen to know if Perry Chen offers ASET evaluations as well?

I am pretty sure that Perry does not do ASETs too bad; but you can buy your own scope and look at them yourself through the scope.

I do know that they are excellent for sourcing stones according to Thouarella...

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/page-3']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/page-3[/URL]


Post by Thouarella » 14 Apr 2010 12:54
Thanks for all the lovely comments everyone!

It''s our 5th wedding anniversary, hence the 5 carat stone Image

Laila - thanks for adding it to the cushion thread.

jgny:
The dimensions are 9.95 x 9.61 x 6.71mm And I believe the OMC style stones face up smaller as well given their high crowns (someone correct me if I''m wrong on this). But I looked at a bunch and I vastly preferred the OMCs to the modern brilliants, plus I think this way the 5 carat isn''t too enormous (vs say a 5 carat RB).

We bought this stone from Leon just before he launched his diamond concierge service, so I don''t know if they will provide additional details now, but basically he sent me photos of the stone from all angles, set and unset and on a black and white background. No ASETs. It was rather a leap of faith to buy it without looking at it in person and without ASETs etc but at the end of the day we decided to trust his eye and we had just fallen in love with the faceting of the stone.

Before we decided on this one, we''d taken a look at stones at our local B&Ms, one who specialises in OMCs and another who flew in 5 stones from their sightholders in Israel. I''d also contacted all of the cushion specialists mentioned on this forum and gotten a stone flown out to me, though ultimately we decided not to go with that one. It is REALLY difficult to find a stone with the requirements we had (>5 carats, OMC or 8 pavillion mains, large culet, near 1:1 aspect ratio, eyeclean) and there were very few responses to our request both online and at the B&Ms. It was basically between this stone and the one that was flown out to us. Jon at GoodOldGood had offered to get an AVC cut but the prices of rough had gone up so much at the end of last year/beginning of this one, plus we didn''t want to have to wait!

So at the end of the day and after months of searching we decided to go ahead with Leon''s stone and I just love it. The J doesn''t bother me at all and mostly it looks icy white and I only notice a tiny bit of warmth very occasionally from certain angles (my e-ring is an E and there is a very slight difference but really not very much).

Leon did mention that now he''s set up this diamond concierge service that he''d rather find a good stone for his clients. He''ll still set stones from other dealers but I get the feeling that he preferred for us to buy a stone from him. Good thing we liked his stone best anyway.

 

[RSB]

Thanks, ariel. I have actually seen that thread before and have come to appreciate many of the beautiful I and J cushions I've seen here, especially that 5ct! I think that I would personally be fine with these stones if I were wearing it but am a bit hesitant to do so for an engagement ring, particularly in this size, with the FI being clear that she wouldn't want to see any "yellowish" at all. At this point, I think it's probably worthwhile to open up the search to I color stones though.

 

[RSB]

I did just receive an email from a James Allen rep stating that IT has fixed the problem and that the links to the diamonds are now working for anyone interested in seeing the actual stones that correspond to the ASET images.

In any case, the general consensus seem to be that I can do better and should keep looking... Thanks.

 

[ariel144]

I found these large "cushions brilliants" on another vendor site. You might ask your favorite vendor about these cause their numbers look good and prices fit your budget. CUT is KING and you can have a lower colored stone that is very well cut and it will out perform an higher colored stone.

As you know, cushion brilliants are rare and that type of faceting usually means it is a desirable cut.
The vendor below is not technologically advanced (no ASETS etc) but I like his site as I can see what is available online and his
prices are usually the lowest on the web. ERD, GOG, or Perry Chen will probably know these stones, since they
specialize in cushion cuts and can call them in for you if you are interested.



http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailGIA.asp?ITEM=30192104

Our Item Number Is 30192104
Price Is $ $24,901.65






Weight 3.41

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.58x8.62x5.81

Proportions
Depth 67.4
Table 55
Girdle Thin-Thick
Culet Medium

Finish
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade K

Fluorescence None



http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailGIA.asp?ITEM=39618794
Our Item Number Is 39618794
Price Is $ $25,204.92






Weight 3.02

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.40x7.93x5.41

Proportions
Depth 68.2
Table 55
Girdle Very Thin-Very Thick
Culet Slightly Large

Finish
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Very Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade J

Fluorescence None




http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailEGL.asp?ITEM=42894823

EGL USA
Weight 3.5

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.64x8.35x5.70

Proportions
Depth 68.3
Table 55
Girdle Medium-Very Thick
Culet None

Finish
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Clarity Grade VS1

Color Grade H

Fluorescence Faint



Our Item Number Is 42894823
Price Is $ $36,045.63

 

[04diamond<3]

I found these large "cushions brilliants" on another vendor site. You might ask your favorite vendor about these cause their numbers look good and prices fit your budget. CUT is KING and you can have a lower colored stone that is very well cut and it will out perform an higher colored stone.

As you know, cushion brilliants are rare and that type of faceting usually means it is a desirable cut.
The vendor below is not technologically advanced (no ASETS etc) but I like his site as I can see what is available online and his
prices are usually the lowest on the web. ERD, GOG, or Perry Chen will probably know these stones, since they
specialize in cushion cuts and can call them in for you if you are interested.



http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailGIA.asp?ITEM=30192104

Our Item Number Is 30192104
Price Is $ $24,901.65






Weight 3.41

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.58x8.62x5.81

Proportions
Depth 67.4
Table 55
Girdle Thin-Thick
Culet Medium

Finish
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade K

Fluorescence None



http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailGIA.asp?ITEM=39618794
Our Item Number Is 39618794
Price Is $ $25,204.92






Weight 3.02

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.40x7.93x5.41

Proportions
Depth 68.2
Table 55
Girdle Very Thin-Very Thick
Culet Slightly Large

Finish
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Very Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade J

Fluorescence None




http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailEGL.asp?ITEM=42894823

EGL USA
Weight 3.5

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.64x8.35x5.70

Proportions
Depth 68.3
Table 55
Girdle Medium-Very Thick
Culet None

Finish
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Clarity Grade VS1

Color Grade H

Fluorescence Faint



Our Item Number Is 42894823
Price Is $ $36,045.63

Are you serious? You've been around here long enough! We've never ever recommended people buying from places that don't offer asets let alone PICTURES!!! It's just a terrible idea for fancy cuts cause NO ONE knows what these stones even look like! The faceting could look absolutely awful! With the OP spending this much money, if he were to go somewhere where he could get the biggest diamond for his money and work with a trusted vendor who will give him the info he needs, JA or id jewelry are the places we would recommend!

Seriously OP, please don't eve consider getting a stone with this much money at a place where you have no clue what the stone will look like!

 

[RSB]

I really appreciate the suggestions. No worries--I do feel much more comfortable working with vendors who can supply the requisite pics/videos/ASETs/etc. in order to be able to make as well informed a decision on a fancy cut as possible. I'm optimistic that I'll eventually find something within my specs by taking this approach, however, will keep in mind the option of calling in stones as a last resort.

 

[ariel144]

I found these large "cushions brilliants" on another vendor site. You might ask your favorite vendor about these cause their numbers look good and prices fit your budget. CUT is KING and you can have a lower colored stone that is very well cut and it will out perform an higher colored stone.

As you know, cushion brilliants are rare and that type of faceting usually means it is a desirable cut.
The vendor below is not technologically advanced (no ASETS etc) but I like his site as I can see what is available online and his
prices are usually the lowest on the web. ERD, GOG, or Perry Chen will probably know these stones, since they
specialize in cushion cuts and can call them in for you if you are interested.



http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailGIA.asp?ITEM=30192104

Our Item Number Is 30192104
Price Is $ $24,901.65






Weight 3.41

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.58x8.62x5.81

Proportions
Depth 67.4
Table 55
Girdle Thin-Thick
Culet Medium

Finish
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade K

Fluorescence None



http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailGIA.asp?ITEM=39618794
Our Item Number Is 39618794
Price Is $ $25,204.92






Weight 3.02

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.40x7.93x5.41

Proportions
Depth 68.2
Table 55
Girdle Very Thin-Very Thick
Culet Slightly Large

Finish
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Very Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade J

Fluorescence None




http://buydiamonddirect.com/details/detailEGL.asp?ITEM=42894823

EGL USA
Weight 3.5

Shape Cushion
Measurements 9.64x8.35x5.70

Proportions
Depth 68.3
Table 55
Girdle Medium-Very Thick
Culet None

Finish
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Clarity Grade VS1

Color Grade H

Fluorescence Faint



Our Item Number Is 42894823
Price Is $ $36,045.63

Are you serious? You've been around here long enough! We've never ever recommended people buying from places that don't offer asets let alone PICTURES!!! It's just a terrible idea for fancy cuts cause NO ONE knows what these stones even look like! The faceting could look absolutely awful! With the OP spending this much money, if he were to go somewhere where he could get the biggest diamond for his money and work with a trusted vendor who will give him the info he needs, JA or id jewelry are the places we would recommend!

Seriously OP, please don't eve consider getting a stone with this much money at a place where you have no clue what the stone will look like!

04Diamond3,

Well, SERIOUSLY, it helps if you will simply read my post. I NEVER suggested that he purchase from that vendor, just that his site helps you to find what is out there in ALL the databases and usually they have one of the best prices on the web for comparison.

I stated that he could have the vendor he had decided to use check out some of these stones if he found them interesting.

PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE THE NEXT TIME. You are really ridiculous to think I would ever recommend anyone purchase a stone from the numbers.. give me break!

Guess you missed my statement:

" You might ask your favorite vendor about these cause their numbers look good and prices fit your budget. CUT is KING and you can have a lower colored stone that is very well cut and it will out perform an higher colored stone.
ERD, GOG, or Perry Chen will probably know these stones, since they
specialize in cushion cuts and can call them in for you if you are interested."

Your post was exceptionally offensive. Next time you need to read for comprehension before you get your panties in a wad and rake someone over the coals and embarrass yourself.

 

[04diamond<3]

04Diamond3,

Well, SERIOUSLY, it helps if you will simply read my post. I NEVER suggested that he purchase from that vendor, just that his site helps you to find what is out there in ALL the databases and usually they have one of the best prices on the web for comparison.

I stated that he could have the vendor he had decided to use check out some of these stones if he found them interesting.

PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE THE NEXT TIME. You are really ridiculous to think I would ever recommend anyone purchase a stone from the numbers.. give me break!

Guess you missed my statement:

" You might ask your favorite vendor about these cause their numbers look good and prices fit your budget. CUT is KING and you can have a lower colored stone that is very well cut and it will out perform an higher colored stone.
ERD, GOG, or Perry Chen will probably know these stones, since they
specialize in cushion cuts and can call them in for you if you are interested."

Your post was exceptionally offensive. Next time you need to read for comprehension before you get your panties in a wad and rake someone over the coals and embarrass yourself.

Not embarrassed and honestly dont care. Seriously, we have plenty of threads on the different cushion cuts and vendors who are excellent at finding good cushions that I found this pointless. It would have been more helpful to direct the OP to somewhere that has had success in getting what customers want. Looking somewhere where no one has ever heard of for a fancy cut stone just based on the numbers seems pointless to me. And I'm not ridiculous because I didn't waste time posting from a place from who knows where.