1st Diamond Purchase: Black Inclusions & More

[cool_rock]

After learning much about the diamonds from Pricescope for the last few weeks, and receiving my diamond from an online vendor, I was very disappointed with the diamond for its lack of sparkle, especially in light of the fact that it is a reputable brand of H&A. As a matter of fact, I can clearly see the crisp H&A patterns with an Ideal Scope./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

However, I noticed the following: (Also, refer to the diagram that I uploaded below.) /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

1) I noticed black inclusions below the girdle when looking at it from the side with a 10x loupe. It is I1, so I expected to see some inclusions, but I did not expect them to be 'black' inclusions./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

2) In addition, the bottom portion of the pavilions has the affect of being in "different shade" than the rest of the diamond. Maybe, it is a large white horizontal inclusion that's causing this affect./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

I am simply stating as I see them. I am sure a trained gemologist with proper tools can give more precise diagnosis. (When I get a chance, I will try to take a picture and upload for others to see.)/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

But ultimately what's most important is that it performs poorly to naked eyes even under different lighting conditions. This may be an exception to the rules, but makes me somewhat disillusioned with buying diamond online./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

 

[cool_rock]

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]

 

[iceprincess]

Sorry to hear about your disappointment Cool_Rock. Buying a diamond is a major purchase and you say that you spent time here on the forums learning about diamonds to minimize buying a dud.

My question to you would be did you have this stone sent to an independant appraiser before you bought it? Also, how much info did you get from the vendor when you were considering this stone?

When I did my search, I was sent numerous photos of the inclusions at very high magnification, an imagescope, and hearts and arrows views. Also, my vendor was really happy to discuss the stone with me, she pulled out the loupe and looked at the rock while she spoke with me. I told exactly what kind of inclusions my stone has and exactly where they were located.

Photos would be helpful here. If what you see is indeed the inclusion, are you outside the window for a return?

 

[aljdewey]

Cool Rock, sorry to hear you are disappointed. I suspect part of your disappointment stems from not asking enough questions or not asking the right questions prior to purchase.

Did you ask the vendor about the inclusions? Did you ask what color they were? Did you ask where they were located? Did you ask what type of inclusions they were? Did you ask what the primary grader inclusion was? These are all questions that you as a consumer should be asking the vendor---ESPECIALLY with an I1 stone.

Also, I'm afraid your expectations are a bit unrealistic on what you should/shouldn't see as far as clarity goes. Clarity is not graded from a side view; hence, inclusions may be visible to the *naked* eye....even in VS stones! Add the fact that you're using a loupe....I'd be surprised if you couldn't see the inclusions. It's not realistic to expect your stone, especially an I1, to be clean from the side view using a loupe.

As far as the inclusions being black.....again, sounds like you didn't ask the questions you should have. When I spoke to my vendor on my stone (si2), I learned that its inclusions were 1) white, 2) wispy in nature, and 3) scattered below the table. I also learned that there were a few bunches of tiny pinpoints. I compared that to another stone...its inclusions were dark (not black) crystal inclusions under the table.

As far as the the shading in the pavilion goes, perhaps you're also unaware that the line at the bottom third of the diamond is the girdle reflection. It is not a large white horizontal inclusion.

It sounds as though you're unsure of what you should be seeing, and as such, I'd HIGHLY recommend you take the stone to an independent appraiser. Just to clarify--that doesn't mean a local jeweler (who would want to sell you his stones)....it means an appraiser who doesn't deal in stones at all.

 

[cool_rock]

Thanks iceprincess and aljdewey,



BTW, I expected to see some inclusions with loupe, but I did not expect them to be black.




Would such inclusion affect the light performance of the stone in terms of brilliance, dispersion, and scintillation? I probably wouldn't have minded the inclusions if the stone simply performed "well" to the naked eyes.




I planned to get a fill independent appraisal, but if the stone is not visually pleasing, I don't see a point of investing more $ to get it appraised.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 1/25/2004 11:32:38 PM cool_rock wrote:







BTW, I expected to see some inclusions with loupe, but I did not expect them to be black.




Would such inclusion affect the light performance of the stone in terms of brilliance, dispersion, and scintillation? I probably wouldn't have minded the inclusions if the stone simply performed 'well' to the naked eyes.




I planned to get a fill independent appraisal, but if the stone is not visually pleasing, I don't see a point of investing more $ to get it appraised.

----------------

Yes, you said that initially about the black, too. I was trying to (gently) point out that you may be have more realistic expectations if you'd asked the questions that one should ask about inclusions. What would make you think that I1 stones inclusions shouldn't/wouldn't be black?

As far as how the inclusions affect light performance, an appraiser could tell you that, but in general, unless a stone is HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY included (as in multiple inclusions that are so dense light cannot pass through them), it shouldn't affect light performance.

I get the feeling that you haven't seen very many stones in person to have a basis of comparison. I feel like you need to go out and look at diamonds *in person*. In the last year, there have been a few folks who felt their ideal diamonds looked "dark" because they were either viewing them in direct sunlight (which isn't flattering to diamonds) or because they had never seen diamonds away from the expensive jewelry store lighting and didn't know what to expect when the diamond was worn in everyday lighting conditions.

If you're unhappy with this stone, then of course you should return it. What I'm suggesting is that you may be unhappy because you don't seem to have a solid basis for comparison. Perhaps you should go get some real world visual experience before you reject the stone outright.

 

[strmrdr]

If your not happy with it return it and start looking again.
Next time see if you can find an independant appraiser near by and have the diamond sent there first before paying for it.
Paying b&m markup just isnt worth it.

 

[cool_rock]

aljdewey,




Your adivice is well taken. I saw many diamonds (prbably not as many as many on this forum) including branded H&A over the course of couple of months. But you are right, I only saw them in the stores. Even though I would always ask be able to walk around the store with the stone to see the diamonds in different intensity of light, but I was still confined to the store.




But I guess it is hard to ramdomly sample many diamonds in many different natural light settings unless one has personal stock pile of diamond and/or you are in the trade.

 

[cool_rock]

BTW, in general, are all inclusions more pronouced when seen from the side rather than from the top?

 

[aljdewey]

I think the only thing you can do is chat up the managers of the stores and ask them to walk the stone outside so you can see it in normal light conditions. They can walk it outside for you......whatever. I asked one mall jeweler to do that, and he was more than willing to step out into the main mall area to do that. WOW, what a difference that made in the diamond. Looked TOTALLY different.....and not as alive.

Hehehehe....he was trying to show me how much *better* a Leo performs than some others.....not.

Anyway, it sounds as though you may be more comfortable shopping in person.....it sounds like you are one of those visual people who has to choose by seeing, and there's nothing wrong with that. Something to consider. You may pay a bit more for it....being a B&M jeweler purchase and all......but if it would give you more satisfaction/peace of mind in your purchase, then it's money well spent.

 

[pyramid]

cool rock


I am just a consumer here. You were saying about a large white inclusion and the way the stone looks different at the foot of the pavillion. Below is a link to a post which shows photos of the girdle reflection from the side of the stone, this may be what is causing the different color and white looking 'inclusion' from the side.

Yes you can see black inclusions in an I1 diamond, you are lucky though that they are not black viewing the stone face up.

If the stone is unappealing to you though after you have looked at it and maybe compared it to other diamonds then you should return it whilst you still can.

Good luck.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/girdle-reflection.3285/

 

[Griffin]

If it faces up nicely and sparkles, my advice is to call it good. You did really good for an I1.

Don't let a couple of "diggers" (carbon inclusions) ruin it for you - ANY I1 stone looks like an absolute train wreck under magnification, as do many higher graded stones.

 

[Mara]

What sort of education did you give yourself while searching for a diamond online? Did you really know what to look for?




It sounds as though you are disillusioned with buying a diamond online--did you do all your homework? An I1 stone at best would have white wispy inclusions that may not be visible to the naked eye. But an I1 stone by nature will ususally have inclusions visible at some point....or else it would most likely not have gotten that I1 grade. As for white vs. black...didn't you think to ask about the inclusions before purchase? Especially on an I1 stone? You note that you can see the inclusions from the side with a 10x loupe. Can you see them with the naked eye? If not, then you got an exceptionally clean I1.




Inclusions may be more visible from the side than top because diamonds are graded from TOP DOWN....and sometimes you can see items from the side that you cannot see from top.




To be honest, I am surprised that with a true H&A stone with excellent patterns (making an assumption here because just because you can see H&A does not mean it's a true H&A...all stones exhibit some type of H&A pattern) that you would be unhappy with the look of the stone. The inclusions MAY BE hindering some of the light return from the stone, but if it was truly from a reputable H&A vendor as you say....I have a hard time believing that the stone is that disappointing. Can you post pictures? Do you have any data or pictures from the vendor? When purchasing online, it's always extremely helpful to get pictures of anything you can think of....to cover all the bases. You do not have the benefit of viewing it in person, so virtually viewing it in as many ways as possible is the best scenario.




What are your options now? Return the stone? Sounds good to me. Keep looking, possibly task the vendor you used with finding a similar stone but eye-clean and with more sparkle, better proportions? Without knowing more about the proportions of this stone you bought, hard to say what you could have done differently, can you post the numbers?




Regardless, if you aren't happy...send it back...use your return policy and find something better. But find out why this stone is not performing as you thought it would be. I honestly have seen maybe 1 out of every 100 people on here ever say that they were disappointed with a true H&A after doing careful research....but there can always be that fluke.

 

[fire&ice]

Clarity is something that you either live with it or go better in clarity. Period. One can not expect an I1 to be eye clean. Also, the little black carbon spot (which are really small gem inclusions like a garnet) often is less intrusive to the durablity of the stone.

That said, if you are unhappy, return the stone & consider getting a better clarity. Me, I don't mind living w/ the little gems. But, you have to decide for yourself. Good luck.

 

[cool_rock]

Thanks everyone for helpful feedback.




Now that I know exactly where the inclusions are, they are visible even to my naked eyes when viewed from the side. I specifically asked the stone to be "eye clean." Is it customary, for a round cut, that unless specified otherwise, that "eye clean" applies only when viewed from the top?




I exposed the stone to various lighting conditions available at home, including halogen lamp, regular light bulb, florescent lamp, and natural light. (I have not been able to expose it to the bright sun light, because it has been overcast for the last several days.) It shows off some dispersion and sparkle best under halogen lamp and then under regular light bulb, but none under other conditions.


.


I guess there is some chance that I "may" be prejudiced about the performance of this stone, because I am so used to seeing the stones under the stores' controlled lighting conditions. So I plan to educate myself further by (inconspicuously) exposing my stone to different lighting conditions such as elevators, etc.. I also plan to visit more stores and ask them to show me the stones outside the store's controlled lighting.




Then, I will decide what to do with the stone. Overall, I had good buying experience with the vendor, and I admit the value is superior to most B&M stores. But the most important criterion is whether I like the stone or not.

 

[fire&ice]

By eyeclean, one is usually refering to face up position. Once set, most of side will not be seen. Something to consider.

 

[Giangi]

Yes, a stone is called 'eye clean' when you can't see inclusions from the top at wearing distance... And let me tell you that if you got an I 1 with inclusions visible only from the side, it's the deal of the century!

 

[Mara]

I think you may be uneducated as to how diamonds look in certain lights as you yourself note.




In the shade, alot of times my diamond looks stark white and very crystally. Nothing super impressive. But other times in the car in the shade, I get amazing cut glass looks inside the stone. In the bathroom shower stall, with I don't even know what kind of light, it looks VERY unimpressive, super white and milky, not my favorite all. In office lights, it looks very sparkly, crystally white. In track lighting, it's a fireball of colors and flashes. In candlelight, it's low sparkle and very fiery inside the stone. Oh and sunlight? Not a diamond's best friend in terms of looks....most diamonds look like crap in direct sunlight..too much competing inside the stone for it to return anything good to your eyes. My stone looks very blue white in sunlight, almost fluorescent, but I only have faint fluor.




So it really depends on what light you are viewing the stone under. The ring is not going to be amazing 100% of the time. Yes the jewelry stores set you up unrealistically in terms of expectations.




Again, I feel like if this stone is a true H&A with a great cut, it should not be disappointing you in terms of performance. Can you post specs so that people can see for themselves? This would help.

 

[aljdewey]

Cool, I think the problem is your lack of understanding about the terminology and what it means.

Now that I know exactly where the inclusions are, they are visible even to my naked eyes when viewed from the side. I specifically asked the stone to be "eye clean."

There's the problem. You told the vendor you wanted an eye-clean stone, but you don't know what that means. Eyeclean means that the stone's inclusions won't be visible to the naked eye in the FACE-UP position. It positively does not mean you shouldn't see inclusions from the side. As I wrote in my earlier post, it's possible to see inclusions with the naked eye when viewing a diamond from the side...EVEN in some VS stones!!!!

If you want a stone that doesn't have visible inclusions when viewed through the side, then that is what you need to tell the vendor. Be prepared, though, to pay a *significant* amount more for it. Personally, I cannot understand why it should matter.....people don't look at diamonds through the side. How much of the side do you think you're going to see when it's mounted?

You're shopping for I1 stones. I1 is defined as "included", and it means that inclusions will be fairly OBVIOUS under 10x magnification in the face-up position. You can absolutely bet, therefore, that they'll be visible from the side that way.

You need to determine which is more important....staying in the price range of the I1 stone, or getting a stone that won't show inlcusions from the side...and proceed from there.

 

[cool_rock]

I was in a dilemma whether to post, but I decided to post to correct my earlier statement. The diamond is absolutely beautiful.




After exposing my diamond to various lighting conditions, I realized that I indeed had unrealistic expectations. (I have seen diamonds mostly under the vendor's controlled lights.) The fact that I had very limited lighting conditions in my place where I was stuck for several days (after receiving the diamond) due to the inclement weather did not help either.




I am mesmerized by the stone's many personalities under differing lighting conditions.


I thank the Pricescope community for setting me straight about this diamond.


My earlier statement was simply indicative of my inexperience.

 

[Gearhead]

Case closed