1250 just for labor?

[Souled In]

for the ring setting I was quoted: 400 for materials, 600 for diamonds, 1250 for labor (custom design)

What do you think a fair percentage commission is for a sales rep?

I can see paying 100 dollars for the help my sales rep gave me.
50 an hour for the handcarver, 3 hours?
50 an hour for the wax machine, 2 hours?

Add another 150 to the money going to the store for the wax machine

thtas 500, what do you think is fair for labor?

 

[swingirl]

How many hours do you think it will take? Is the $1250 for the design and labor to create it?

Labor is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for the time, talent, experience and expertise.

 

[yssie]

Date: 4/23/2010 2:31:47 AM
Author:Souled In
for the ring setting I was quoted: 400 for materials, 600 for diamonds, 1250 for labor (custom design)

What do you think a fair percentage commission is for a sales rep?

I can see paying 100 dollars for the help my sales rep gave me.
50 an hour for the handcarver, 3 hours?
50 an hour for the wax machine, 2 hours?

Add another 150 to the money going to the store for the wax machine

thtas 500, what do you think is fair for labor?

You could certainly get it for the price you''re looking for! Thing is, you often get what you pay for.

 

[tyty333]

Can you provide us with a similar pic of the setting just for completeness sake?

 

[denverappraiser]

I don’t know the details of your job or the people working on it so I can’t comment at all on the pricing but two general points here.

1) The hardest part of a job is usually in the finishing and setting, not the CAD, and definitely not the wax machine.

2) A $50/hr shop rate is cheap in every US market I’m aware of, even for unskilled or barely skilled workers. Heck, just yesterday I paid a $79/hr shop rate to have some guy change a TIRE.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Souled In]

I can post the pic of the setting when I get it. I haven''t agreed to the price yet to have them make it.

That''s true. 79 an hour sounds good. Thanks! Mercedez dealerships and lawyers charge a 100 a hour.

What kind of commission can I talk them down to? I think 3 % is reasonable.

Now, the diamond they are tacking 750-1000 dollars extra on it when compared to other pricescope diamonds.

I know I should pay more for being able to see it locally, but I think 250 is the most I would want to pay for the locality, and their expertise in choosing the diamond.

So thats 3% commission, plus 250, plus 79 an hour for the handcarver, and then whatever maintenance fees for working CAD and wax etc...

Does this seem reasonable?

Does

 

[yssie]

Frankly I think it's incredibly arrogant and presumptious for someone who knows nothing about the business/industry to decide what a "fair price" to be charging per step is based on some abstraction of what other people in totally unrelated industries "charge".


If you want good work you're going to have to cough up a premium for it.


If you want a discount your best bet is to politely ask, or plan to work out a cheaper design, rather than telling them what they ought to charge you.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 4/23/2010 2:53:11 PM
Author: Souled In

Does this seem reasonable?

MY lawyer charges a fair sight more than that. I’ll tell her that you think she’s overpriced and let you know how that works out.

I must admit that if I were still doing custom jewelry and you came in with this sort of negotiation, I’ld pitch you out of the store forthwith, but not all jewelers behave the same and I’m something of a curmudgeon. I wouldn't recommend using Leon Mege with this plan though.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[yssie]

Neil, your post made me laugh. It takes a certain -self-certainty? to so placidly call oneself a curmudgeon

You don't look particularly curmudgeonly in your picture.

 

[partgypsy]

Date: 4/23/2010 3:08:06 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/23/2010 2:53:11 PM
Author: Souled In

Does this seem reasonable?

MY lawyer charges a fair sight more than that. I’ll tell her that you think she’s overpriced and let you know how that works out.

I must admit that if I were still doing custom jewelry and you came in with this sort of negotiation, I’ld pitch you out of the store forthwith, but not all jewelers behave the same and I’m something of a curmudgeon. I wouldn''t recommend using Leon Mege with this plan though.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

re: Mege LOL! (mental picture)

Doesn''t matter what the breakdown is. Find out how much the total cost is. If that is too much, shop around and ask other jewelers for quotes on a similar custom setting. Or, look into getting a stock setting that looks similar. I don''t forsee much success using this kind of logic with someone giving you a good-faith quote.

Personally, I have done better by niceness. Such as can you do any better on the price, or is there a way this setting can be simplified, materials substituted etc, to reduce cost.

 

[Souled In]

yssie yea, I assume I should use professional tactics rather than acting immature. I''m just trying to get an idea of some numbers. I didn''t think anyone on here wanted to spend time breaking down numbers for me, so I tried to throw together a rough estimate for you to work off of.

Anyway, say I throw in another 500 for being taken care of and them being so nice.

Thats 1100 profit off me. That seems like plenty.

They told me it is 1250 for labor, which is very broad. If I can get the diamond down 750 dollars (the HIGHEST comparable I found on pricescope was 750-1000 less than what they are asking), and labor down 250, I would have saved a thousand dollars. Any reputable jewelry store isn''t going to do a bad job on a ring just becuase I negotiated.

It''s not really about the money for me. I planned on spending 8-10 grand, but I like the .91, and I actually like the look of G compared to the D-F. And I''m find with S1. So, presto I save money! However, when I see the ring for the rest of my life, I want to know I defended my family by looking out for the best deal.

I want to make sure everyone is happy, so I''m just gonna keep brainstorming until I figure out a good number that I will gladly pay. As far as negotiating, I see no reason breaking it down. Telling someone how they "should" charge or run a business, can be annoying, surely, but ultimately, it''s not that big of a deal, as long as they are nice about it. It is more of a could than a should.

The could charge a bit less for this, and still keep their employees happy, and I would be more happy, and bring more business to their store. Not a huge deal.

 

[PavePrincess]

Date: 4/23/2010 3:08:06 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/23/2010 2:53:11 PM

Author: Souled In


Does this seem reasonable?

MY lawyer charges a fair sight more than that. I’ll tell her that you think she’s overpriced and let you know how that works out.

I must admit that if I were still doing custom jewelry and you came in with this sort of negotiation, I’ld pitch you out of the store forthwith, but not all jewelers behave the same and I’m something of a curmudgeon. I wouldn''t recommend using Leon Mege with this plan though.



Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Thank you Neil! Your post gave me a pretty good laugh.. I was thinking the same thing!

To OP - Normal people don''t march into reputable businesses of ANY type and tell them that their services are overpriced and demand a discount. Most of the service prices quoted are based on their level of expertise and how they value their time/effort. If you honestly think that you''re paying too much for the diamond and/or the setting, then you should look into other jewelers and determine if they''re offering you a fair price. When my boyfriend and I picked out my ring we **politely** asked the jeweler if the price quoted was the best they could do and if they would consider lowering the price if we paid by check. They lowered it a bit and we graciously thanked them and bought the ring. I hope that you''re able to get exactly what you want for an amazing price, but remember.. this line of work is truly a craft.. If you want quality work then you''re going to have to pay for it.

 

[yssie]

Date: 4/23/2010 3:30:54 PM
Author: Souled In
yssie yea, I assume I should use professional tactics rather than acting immature. I'm just trying to get an idea of some numbers. I didn't think anyone on here wanted to spend time breaking down numbers for me, so I tried to throw together a rough estimate for you to work off of.

Anyway, say I throw in another 500 for being taken care of and them being so nice.

Thats 1100 profit off me. That seems like plenty.

They told me it is 1250 for labor, which is very broad. If I can get the diamond down 750 dollars (the HIGHEST comparable I found on pricescope was 750-1000 less than what they are asking), and labor down 250, I would have saved a thousand dollars. Any reputable jewelry store isn't going to do a bad job on a ring just becuase I negotiated.

It's not really about the money for me. I planned on spending 8-10 grand, but I like the .91, and I actually like the look of G compared to the D-F. And I'm find with S1. So, presto I save money! However, when I see the ring for the rest of my life, I want to know I defended my family by looking out for the best deal.

I want to make sure everyone is happy, so I'm just gonna keep brainstorming until I figure out a good number that I will gladly pay. As far as negotiating, I see no reason breaking it down. Telling someone how they 'should' charge or run a business, can be annoying, surely, but ultimately, it's not that big of a deal, as long as they are nice about it. It is more of a could than a should.

The could charge a bit less for this, and still keep their employees happy, and I would be more happy, and bring more business to their store. Not a huge deal.

I understand not wanting to get ripped off, I really do. The thing is, without any insight into how they're breaking down their quote, how can you possibly determine what's reasonable and what isn't?


Why not work out what you're comfortable paying in total, call them and say that you have a final budget of xxx and you really like their diamond so could we work something out. Don't try and do it piece by piece, just give them a total budget and see what they will and won't compromise on. There is a vast middle ground between rolling over and micromanaging.

 

[lucky_D]

just keep in mind that you get exactly what you pay for. I think it would be a lot easier for people to advice you if the price is fair if you posted images of what setting you are getting, what the quality of the stones/ ct weight is, what the metal is. Sometimes they might offer an extremely good profit on raw materials and price for their time FINDING those materials as well. Properly setting a stone, let a lone multiple stones takes a lot more time than you set it out to be. Also, labor also includes time spent creating the design. If the company is reputable, what makes you think they would take advantage of you? For all they know you will post it on forums like this and let them know just who was the one that ripped you off.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 4/23/2010 3:14:22 PM
Author: yssie
Neil, your post made me laugh. It takes a certain -self-certainty? to so placidly call oneself a curmudgeon

You don't look particularly curmudgeonly in your picture.

I'm told that self certainty is, indeed, one of my attributes. Those who like me call it confidence, those who dislike me call it arrogance.

What is a Curmudgeon anyway?

"A curmudgeon's reputation for malevolence is undeserved. They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. They're just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy. They ease the pain by turning hurt into humor. . . . . . They attack maudlinism because it devalues genuine sentiment. . . . . . Nature, having failed to equip them with a servicable denial mechanism, has endowed them with astute perception and sly wit.
Curmudgeons are mockers and debunkers whose bitterness is a symptom rather than a disease. They can't compromise their standards and can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness. Their awareness is a curse.
Perhaps curmudgeons have gotten a bad rap in the same way that the messenger is blamed for the message: They have the temerity to comment on the human condition without apology. They not only refuse to applaud mediocrity, they howl it down with morose glee. Their versions of the truth unsettle us, and we hold it against them, even though they soften it with humor."

- JON WINOKUR

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 4/23/2010 2:53:11 PM
Author: Souled In

lawyers charge a 100 a hour.

Wow - where do you live? Those are CHEAP lawyers!

On another note, if I was your jeweler, I would just say sorry this is the price - I don't want your business

I would be furious if someone came in and told me what my time and my skills are worth. It's not up to them to judge. If you don't want to pay it, then don't pay it and take your business else where. It is a different story if you say something like ... my budget is X, is there anything we can do to make it work?

 

[Souled In]

They list their diamonds 2000 grand more than they are actually asking for them. So, by your logic I''d be furious and just walk out. However, since we can negotiate I stay and talk.

I''ll bring them a professional offer, and I''m not going to tell them what my budget is, because it is a buyers market.

Just trying to understand where the numbers come from folks.

Lmao at attacking maudlinism. Totally. That being said, *starts throwing people out of thread.

 

[Souled In]

Thanks for the help btw everyone.

I''ve got a good idea of what you mean as far as where the quality and expertise comes in to play.

I can see giving them an extra 1000, but 2 is pushing it.

Going by what they ask when they negotiate is silly.

If they don''t want negotiation, then they shouldn''t start with their rocks marked so high.

That being aid, these people are great. I''m not going to be a *.

Don''t assume the worst people. Of course, since I kind of assume I will be taken advantage of by a business.

Touche''

 

[yssie]

I'm confused: why are you making this more complicated for yourself?



Well, not my problem, I suppose. Good luck!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 4/23/2010 3:08:06 PM
Author: denverappraiser

I wouldn''t recommend using Leon Mege with this plan though.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I would so love to see what happens if the OP talks to Leon Mege using his approach. It should be a very interesting thread.

 

[Souled In]

Lol. That would be funny. Perhaps you should try it as an ethnomethological experiment.

Yssie, I''m trying to control the situation to defend my self esteem, if you must know.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 4/23/2010 9:55:26 PM
Author: Souled In
Lol. That would be funny. Perhaps you should try it as an ethnomethological experiment.

I am afraid that he will say "no soup for you". I am working on a project with him right now and don't want to use anyone else.

 

[Souled In]

These people are really nice though. I''d personally be very good with a very structured person/ organization, as long as I trusted and had knowledge of their integrity, and I didn''t witness anyone in need get turned away for wearing a funny colored hat. Because then "structure" would go out of the window quite quickly. Unless they were bigger and stronger that is. Well, okay if there were at least 5 bigger and stronger people. Of course, I guess while I was fighting, I could have simply gone and give my soup to the person with the funny hat. Go figures. I guess it just depends whether you are more concerned with kindness, or more concerned with laws of distributing the soup.

 

[yssie]

hehehe


well, I'm not about to play armchair psychologist, I'm no good at it! Good luck with it all, Souled In

 

[Souled In]

Your comments seem very ambiguous.

If you mean well, then thanks a lot. I''ll post up the setting when I get it and let you know how it played out.

 

[yssie]

If you''re talking to me.. I do mean well - or, at least, I think I do.


I certainly mean this: good luck with your ring, and please do tell us about it when it''s done!

 

[lucky_D]

Hey souled in, I tried to help, sorry if it came across as an attack as well. I think before you purchase anything, you should post specs in more detail of what you want to get. With that, then you can get a good idea what a fair price in the diamond world is (it being such a luxury, it might not seem fair to common logic, but it will be 100% standard when it comes to jewelry). Once you get a good, fair quote, then you can talk to the jewelers you are working with and tell them, I could get it for this price at this place, present them maybe another printed appraisal. Then explain that you understand that you have to pay a premium for their in-person services, but if they can make a profit providing a same quality item, why can''t they? I did this, I did not feel like I was being ripped off, I did not feel like I was offending them in anyway or offending their skill. I was simply showing what another company could do for me. They quickly replied that I must have been "misquoted" and quickly offered me a price only about $150 higher than online. I even had my own diamond, I was just purchasing the setting.

If you don''t feel comfortable posting detailed specs here, simply go to whiteflash, good old gold, or any other reputable vendor and request a quote for something similar than what you are looking at. I feel guilty requesting a quote from them if I don''t have intention of buying, but they were able to give me a quote in 5 minutes, so I didn''t feel like I wasted any of their time, and had my jeweler not been able to lower my price, I was very comforted by Chris from whiteflash that I could go with them and all the things that they would do to make the process as close as seeing things from a jewelry store and reassured me I would be able to receive pictures if needed.