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11 years of stalling...

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umagnetic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
7
I 28 now and I am finally ready folks...doing the diamond shopping thing for the very first time! Please help!!!

I was visiting the Jewelry Mart in San Francisco this past weekend...a couple of nice ladies quoted me two rings...however, I am glad I found this website before my purchase...here''s the scenario...

1.5 carat round brilliant
measurements: 7.13 x 7.19 x 4.59
depth: 64.1%
table: 59%
Girdle: slightly thick to thick, faceted
Culet: none
Finish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Clarity Grade: VS1
Color: I
Flourescence: Strong Blue

Comments: Pinpoints are not shown. Surface graining are not shown. Crown angles are greater that 35 degs.

Cert: GIA

The ladies quoted me $7800. Being a virgin shopper I was awestruck by its brilliance, but maybe I can do better. They also said this was a premium cut (whatever that means?)...How would you guys rate this rock on the tolkowsky or holloway scale? I came to the conclusion that an excellent cut is a must. Also, the flourescence rating worries me. Can I find better through pricescope vendors (opinions)?

I appreciate all the advice thru replies in advance.!

 

umagnetic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
7
sorry for my poor english to start...i meant to say i am now 28...also, if anyone knows of any other reputable diamond dealers (with excellent prices) at the Jewelry Mart, please let me know...
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Howdy Unmagnetic! Welcome!


Well, this diamond isn't exactly ideal nor ''premium'' (which is often used to describe the garbage that anyone has in the inventory
). It's pretty deep at 64.1%. Most ideals are between 59.8 and 62. Plus, it has a thick girdle. Basically you're paying for a 1.50, but your stone will look like a ~1.30ct with 60% depth and a medium to thin girdle. Also, it has a steep crown at more than 35'.
The fluorescence could make the stone look whiter but could as well make it milky. Just be sure to check it under bright sunlight.
If you want to get the very best price with the very very best cut quality, I suggest you to shop on the internet. Many vendors post here and will be more than happy to show you any kind of picture/report possible, so that you can be confident.
Here are some cut guide lines... Very general, but will help you and you'll get a nice looking diam ond:
Table 55-57
Crown 34-34.8
Pavilion 40.7-41.1
Girdle thin, medium or sl.thick, preferably faceted
Culet pointed to small
You can get a VERY beautiful diamond with a 60% table too. Just ask for a Sarin report and if possible also a Brilkliance scope report, idealscope and Hearts and Arrows images and a magnified picture that will show you the location of the inclusions.

Best of luck!
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
Giangi is right on with the analysis of that dog.

But first instead of the internet, go to Derco at the same place and ask to see some nice ideals. Do your homework here and I bet you can come up with a similar or better price and quality there as you get from the vendors here.

Try to stay in this range:

(Edit - oops, I didn't notice Giangi's numbers before...he and I can *haggle* over the exact details
, but the basic idea is exactly the same!)

depth 60.0-61.8%
table 54-58%
girdle thin-slightly thick
crown angle 34.0-34.9 degrees
pavilion angle 40.5-40.9 degrees
polish/symmetry vg/vg to ex/ex
fluorescence none-medium

Lovely stones fall outside these ranges and not all within the ranges are great, but you'll improve your chances. Use your *eyes* once you've found 3-4 to choose from...something you can't do over the internet.

If you want branded h&a, ask to see the Aurias stones that are mined and cut in Canada.
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,369
Check out the size chart from this thread (sorry, couldn't figure out how to save it and upload it myself): https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/noticable-size-differences.7645/}

Your stones looks like a 1.3 ct. It is a good deal for a 1.5 ct., but for this reason. This stone has an average diameter of 7.46 -- your stone has an average diameter of 7.16.
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=1515526

Your stone was cut the way that it was to turn what would have been an ideal, or at least very well cut, 1.3 - 1.4ct. stone into one that was over the magic 1.5 carat mark. You might as well buy a better cut stone in the actual size range, or pay more for a well cut 1.5 carat stone. You can always come down a bit on clarity, as long as it is eye clean.

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=1352574

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_423ct_i_si1_h&a.htm

http://www.icestore.com/search/diamond_inventory_detail.asp?ID=58357

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=1569181&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=&_ln=ps

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1041/v.cgi?stock=1458391&_s=1041&_p=98fg98f7g&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=37&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1001/v.cgi?stock=1388747&_s=1001&_p=thepasswd&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=
 

hoorray

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
2,798
Hi Unmagnetic,

Aside from being able to find great quality stones at great prices online, an added benefit of buying fron an internet vendor is that you usually donot have to pay sales tax. On these large purchases that can be significant!

There are lots of threads on this board that you can search giving references on various vendors, as well advice on the process. If you get an independent appraiser to evaluate the stone, and make sure you have a means to either not pay until you accept it or to reliably get your money back, you should be safe.

good luck!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Very good point hooray! At this size and cost, sales taxes are not negligible at all!
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
I think many folks are seriously undervaluing the opportunity to sit down face to face with a dozen or so nice ideals on a grading tray in a range of colors and clarities. A large number of folks don't have that luxury as an option, or if they do the price difference is downright silly
, but given where you are it is an opportunity I wouldn't pass on.

Use pricescope and the several other internet resources to educate yourself, then armed with that information go out and have some fun shopping.
 

psanger

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
2
I just purchased a .77 round VVS2, G from McGiverns online. I paid $3,460 for the stone and it just appraised at over $7,600. It is AGS 0, and the hearts and arrows are perfect. Since it's going in a platinum setting, zero flourencence and near-colorless were a must for me. I was thrilled with McGiverns. The first diamond I ordered from them wasn't quite perfect (my fault, I left off the very imporant discussion of tranparency). I called, we chatted, and they immediately sent me the one mentioned above. Their stones are true and the customer service outstanding. However, they do use more liberal grading standards, so if you go with them, call to discuss exactly who's "ideal" or "premium" cut you want.

I also went to the Jewlery Mart, but did not find their prices and quality very satifying, especially compared to the internet. Again, a word of warning - when they say "premium" make sure you know on who's scale. For example EGL and IGI grade stones very liberally and you'll be told it's a premium or ideal cut when AGS wouldn't grade it above average. Just because it has a GIA cert doesn't mean GIA thinks it's ideal (they don't grade that way). Good luck and enjoy the hunt - I did!!
 

tim_bay_area

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
12
Hello,

i would suggest looking into joe escobar diamonds in campbell. I recently bought a diamond and ring from them (ask for Erik Carlson). With the diamonds i looked at he supplied me with Sarin numbers, we used the stores computer to plug them into the HCA, and they also have an idealscope view the cut. I had a good experience with them, you may as well
 

hoorray

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
2,798
I also have had Joe Escobar do several things for me, including a setting and appraisal. They are top notch.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I also would suggest Joe Escobar in Campbell, their staff is knowledgeable and spends a good amount of time with you. But be sure to get Sarin #'s since they carry mostly GIA reports, you want those crown and pavilion angles to plug into the HCA.

They also list stones online at their website, so you can go there, see what they have in their inventory, then go into the store to see them. www.joeescobar.com

I do have to say IMO that a downside of shopping offline is that for the most part, you will not find the same quality or caliber of stones as you would with some of the online vendors. Sure you will see a few 'ideals'...whatever that means...but you will most likely not see many Hearts and Arrows, and if you do, they will be marked up appropriately--whereas offline that is less often the case. Also you will be hard pressed to find something like a SuperbCert or ACA at an offline vendor. You can find something like an HOF which will be amazing, but its marked up around 30%. Same with the 8* stones.

So while I am a believer of shopping around offline to see what you can with your eyes and setting your priorities that way (e.g. you know what a G or H looks like and know your limits on color/clarity etc from seeing stones in person)--if you are looking for a top notch cut at better prices (most of the time) than offline, I highly suggest online buying from a reputed vendor. Pscope has a ton to choose from.

That from a person who bought her stone offline--but having to do it again, would go online all the way. My next stone is going to definitely be online H&A whether it's a pendant or a baby stone for fun...I want to see those arrows!

Good luck!
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
Erik Carlson would occasionally hang out on DT, he knows his stuff and never did the hard sell there. I'd frankly be surprised if he couldn't come up with something competitively priced and at least as nice as what goodoldgold and whiteflash sell if he knows what you're looking for and expect. C'mon, it's not like there's an exclusive on well cut diamonds!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
There isn't an exclusive on well-cut stones, but the general public does not tend to ask for them, so jewelers for the most part cater to what the public wants (as that is how they make their bread and butter). If the public wants exceptional cut or arrows, they probably will buy HOF or 8* OR do their research on a place like Pscope and realize there are other less pricey avenues. But unfortunately those numbers are still a drop in the bucket.

If you go onto the Escobar site and view their stones for sale (updated June 27 and represents their real-time inventory according to their notations), many of them do not have the correct dimensions for a well-cut stone, or the table and/or depth on some is non-AGS 0. This does not mean they don't sell well-cut stones, but this is a perfect example IMO of having to really search to find something offline...whereas online you can just go to GOG or a WF or similar and know for the most part that you are searching amidst the cream of the crop of stone selection--and the cool reports like Bscope, IdealScope, Sarin analysis etc don't hurt either.

Most certainly go into Escobar, meet the team, look at some stones. They have great settings there in the store. I found 4 I liked. Ask them if they can get H&A stones in for you to view, and what sort of information they can get on the stones, be sure to see what their markup is. It may work out to your advantage if you find a stone you like which is competitively priced; or you may find that you can do better online.

My two cents
 

hoorray

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
2,798
Many of the better non-mall B&M's will bring in stones for you to evaluate if you let them know the specifics of what you are looking for, and set up an appointment. I don't know if Joe Escobars will do this, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

I am a fan of buying online rather than in B&M's, but the big advantage of B&M's is getting to look at multiple stones at the same time, "live and in person". There is a subjective part to diamonds, that can't be completely communicated through reports, pictures, and specs.

I'd suggest giving JE's a call and see if they will try to find some diamonds that fit what you are looking for if they don't have it in their inventory.
 

umagnetic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
7
again,

thanks for all the replies regarding online versus B&M...here's another question! what does B&M stand for? anybody recommend shaneco or other chains?

 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Briks and mortar store.
 
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