1.01 C Oval Diamond Value

[clbz]

Hey guys, I’m new to this site but when I stumbled upon it, it seemed like the perfect place to ask my question about this diamond I’m currently looking at buying. I’ll attach the abridged megascope report (and the full version when they send it to me) the dealer gave to me on the diamond. Pretty much what I’d like to know is if it’s a high quality diamond based on cut, color, etc. and if the price they are giving me is a fair price or if I’m getting ripped off. The price they quoted me for the diamond was just shy of $7300. Thanks so much for your help.

The diamond was explained to me as a 1.01C, class 2 cut, vs2 clarity, H(5) color, no fluorescence, and it’s an oval brilliant cut. The exact dimensions and figures are in the megascope report to help in determining value, quality, etc.

 

[KKJohnson]

Faceup size this is smaller than your current pick but you aren’t going to get better in cut then this, price point wise you are paying higher with the jeweler but it’s expected since they most likely have more over head expenses

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...cts/1-02ct-h-vvs2-august-vintage-oval-1862992

 

[clbz]

Faceup size this is smaller than your current pick but you aren’t going to get better in cut then this, price point wise you are paying higher with the jeweler but it’s expected since they most likely have more over head expenses

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...cts/1-02ct-h-vvs2-august-vintage-oval-1862992

Thanks so much for the quick response and helpful info. I’m a novice when it comes to this stuff. So when you say the faceup size will look smaller, how significant are we talking? This is for an engagement ring and of course I’d like it to look as big as possible while still remaining very high quality. But if the difference is negligible then it’s definitely something worth considering.

 

[elliefire99]

Thanks so much for the quick response and helpful info. I’m a novice when it comes to this stuff. So when you say the faceup size will look smaller, how significant are we talking? This is for an engagement ring and of course I’d like it to look as big as possible while still remaining very high quality. But if the difference is negligible then it’s definitely something worth considering.

You're looking at a 20% decrease in face up size, which is nothing to sneeze at, but the August Vintage WILL be the most sparkly, bright oval you're bound to see anywhere. The cut necessary to make this happen is much deeper than your jeweler's stone, which is why the face up area is smaller. See the image below for a comparison of the two diamonds on a size 6 finger (your stone on the left, AVO on the right).

If the size difference doesn't bother you, then you are getting the same weight stone, with higher clarity, and a top quality cut for $2000 less (though VVS2 clarity is overkill IMO) with the AVO.

Do you have any photos or videos of the diamond in question? It is more difficult to evaluate ovals on the forum, since fancy cuts can't be evaluated "by the numbers" to the extent that round diamonds can. You really have to see them in person. The biggest issue is that ovals often have a dark "bow tie" effect in the center, where the stone looks a lot darker and less brilliant. Have you seen the stone in person? Did you notice something like that? For us online, the easiest thing to do is to recommend the AVO because we know that it is cut to eliminate the bow tie. This is not to say that traditionally-cut ovals without bow-ties don't exist! But it is much easier to evaluate if we have photos.

With photos, all the PSers who know much more than me can be more helpful to you!

Worth noting that I have never heard of a Mega Scope certification, and that makes me nervous. If you're going to spend $7000 on a diamond, it REALLY should have a reputable certification.

 

[elliefire99]

At a general level, $7300 seems high for a 1ct oval. The highest James Allen stone with equivalent 4cs (and similar dimensions) comes in at $5600. But with the jeweler you are paying for the brick and mortar experience.

If you haven't yet, check out the diamond search on PS just to get a feel for a range of prices.

 

[bmfang]

With fancy shapes, I’d have to see more than just a report. This one doesn’t even seem like it’s been graded by GIA or AGS. That already is a bit of a red flag for me.

If you really want to go for this stone, then ask if the dealer can obtain images of the stone for you and post them on here. If they have access to a video of it, even better so we can see whether this stone has a big bow tie and how it performs as it rotates.

While this one may have a better spread than the AVO, if the outer edges of the oval look dead, the AVO will be a better buy as you will have consistent light performance from edge to edge (even though it may be smaller face up) compared with the stone your dealer is trying to get you to bite on.

 

[OoohShiny]

Nothing to add from me - many wise comments already posted in this thread!!

 

[clbz]

At a general level, $7300 seems high for a 1ct oval. The highest James Allen stone with equivalent 4cs (and similar dimensions) comes in at $5600. But with the jeweler you are paying for the brick and mortar experience.

If you haven't yet, check out the diamond search on PS just to get a feel for a range of prices.

I will reply back to your other comment when she sends me the full megascope report and a video of the diamond. But in regards to this comment, she did say that she would be willing to match the price if I could find a similar diamond at a lower price. I would just have to show it to her. But I do think she also meant it should have similar dimensions. She was pretty insistent on the table depth (?) not being that deep and said that’s why her diamond was better than most online competitors. I will try my hand at that tool, but if you could find a similar diamond to the one I posted like you mentioned would you mind sending the link on this forum? It would be much appreciated! And again, thanks so much for your help!

 

[KKJohnson]

If she will do a price match here is a nice numbers comparable that’s actually a D

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-6106742

Bow tie is a bit more noticeable but hey it’s a price match and it’s another nice diamond with similar numbers
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-515694

 

[tyty333]

Have you seen pictures of this stone? You cant buy fancy cut stones without pictures/videos. We suggest you stick to AGS or GIA graded stone (top
labs).

You usually* want the table to be smaller than the depth but all stones must be evaluated on their own merits.
Here are the 1.01/1.02 H/VS2 on James Allen so you can see the prices (and JA is not the cheapest).
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/?Color=H&Clarity=VS2&CaratFrom=1.01&CaratTo=1.04

I suggest you hang out and find out how to evaluate ovals. You want the best light return so it sparkly and bright. This means you need to minimize
the mushy areas and maximize the nice facets that return light well. This first stone shows facets with nice light return (in blue).

This stone shows a stone with a lot of mush (in blue) that will not return light well.


BTW, that stone she is offering seems really overpriced. When you shop on line you get your option
of lots of ovals not just the few that your jeweler brings in.

 

[tyty333]

For $7300 you could get something like this (I'm going by looks...didnt check any numbers)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.28-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-5977309 Bigger/whiter
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.03-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-5640066 slightly bigger (width), better color and better
clarity $6k

 

[lambskin]

My 'cheat sheet' observations ( I am not in the trade but I am an oval lover) is that the more round the stone the less bow tie effect and mush and the more elongated the stone the more bowtie effect and mush. I am sure there are thousands of diamonds that belie my observations but this is what I notice.

 

[clbz]

You're looking at a 20% decrease in face up size, which is nothing to sneeze at, but the August Vintage WILL be the most sparkly, bright oval you're bound to see anywhere. The cut necessary to make this happen is much deeper than your jeweler's stone, which is why the face up area is smaller. See the image below for a comparison of the two diamonds on a size 6 finger (your stone on the left, AVO on the right).

If the size difference doesn't bother you, then you are getting the same weight stone, with higher clarity, and a top quality cut for $2000 less (though VVS2 clarity is overkill IMO) with the AVO.

Do you have any photos or videos of the diamond in question? It is more difficult to evaluate ovals on the forum, since fancy cuts can't be evaluated "by the numbers" to the extent that round diamonds can. You really have to see them in person. The biggest issue is that ovals often have a dark "bow tie" effect in the center, where the stone looks a lot darker and less brilliant. Have you seen the stone in person? Did you notice something like that? For us online, the easiest thing to do is to recommend the AVO because we know that it is cut to eliminate the bow tie. This is not to say that traditionally-cut ovals without bow-ties don't exist! But it is much easier to evaluate if we have photos.

With photos, all the PSers who know much more than me can be more helpful to you!

Worth noting that I have never heard of a Mega Scope certification, and that makes me nervous. If you're going to spend $7000 on a diamond, it REALLY should have a reputable certification.

I finally got the full mega scope report and a not so great picture of the diamond today from the diamond cutter. I failed to mention it in my OP but just in case it's of any relevance the place that I'm thinking about buying this diamond from is Diamond Cutters International. Anyway, here's promised attachments. I've also included some renderings she sent me, I know they aren't accurate of the diamonds true look but why not include them. Also, she was very resistant in giving me this photo of the diamond because as she put it "Pictures don't do the diamond justice." I had to ask her multiple times before she obliged and sent me this photo she took with her iPhone. I'll also reply to the others comments who asked for pictures so they can see this as well.

Any further advice based on the provided info is of course welcome. Thanks everybody!

 

[clbz]

Have you seen pictures of this stone? You cant buy fancy cut stones without pictures/videos. We suggest you stick to AGS or GIA graded stone (top
labs).

You usually* want the table to be smaller than the depth but all stones must be evaluated on their own merits.
Here are the 1.01/1.02 H/VS2 on James Allen so you can see the prices (and JA is not the cheapest).
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/?Color=H&Clarity=VS2&CaratFrom=1.01&CaratTo=1.04

I suggest you hang out and find out how to evaluate ovals. You want the best light return so it sparkly and bright. This means you need to minimize
the mushy areas and maximize the nice facets that return light well. This first stone shows facets with nice light return (in blue).

This stone shows a stone with a lot of mush (in blue) that will not return light well.


BTW, that stone she is offering seems really overpriced. When you shop on line you get your option
of lots of ovals not just the few that your jeweler brings in.

Thanks for the links, I provided a picture and a full mega scope report in case you're interested. I posted them in a reply to another comment. Feel free to take a look and add anything if you'd like.

 

[clbz]

If she will do a price match here is a nice numbers comparable that’s actually a D

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-6106742

Bow tie is a bit more noticeable but hey it’s a price match and it’s another nice diamond with similar numbers
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-515694

Awesome, thanks for those. I'll ask her about matching these and see what she says.

 

[clbz]

With fancy shapes, I’d have to see more than just a report. This one doesn’t even seem like it’s been graded by GIA or AGS. That already is a bit of a red flag for me.

If you really want to go for this stone, then ask if the dealer can obtain images of the stone for you and post them on here. If they have access to a video of it, even better so we can see whether this stone has a big bow tie and how it performs as it rotates.

While this one may have a better spread than the AVO, if the outer edges of the oval look dead, the AVO will be a better buy as you will have consistent light performance from edge to edge (even though it may be smaller face up) compared with the stone your dealer is trying to get you to bite on.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind with the fancier cuts. I posted a picture if you're interested in checking it out. It's a reply to another comment. If you want to add anything based of those feel free. Thanks!

 

[bmfang]

It’s not the worst oval that I’ve seen but there is a definite bow tie there. Facets above and below have more of a crushed ice look to me. @tyty333 , what say you? (OP, tyty is one of PS’ resident oval masters)

 

[clbz]

It’s not the worst oval that I’ve seen but there is a definite bow tie there. Facets above and below have more of a crushed ice look to me. @tyty333 , what say you? (OP, tyty is one of PS’ resident oval masters)

Okay, I will await what @tyty333 has to say about it. Thanks!

 

[tyty333]

It’s not the worst oval that I’ve seen but there is a definite bow tie there. Facets above and below have more of a crushed ice look to me. @tyty333 , what say you? (OP, tyty is one of PS’ resident oval masters)

I agree bmfang...not the worst but without an up-close video to see what it's doing as it moves (like the videos James Allen has), its really hard to give a
definitive "yea" or "nay".

Numbers unfortunately dont tell us much about fancy cut stones.

The jeweler needs to bring in at least 3 nice ovals for you to see. What is the current plan between you and the jeweler? Can you (or she) take some
up close videos of the stones she brings in?

I think we've already established that this stone is overpriced at $7300. On-line it would probably be priced at less than $5k. Since it is a B&M store
its only fair that she needs a little more profit to support a B&M where you can come see the stone. However, I think $7.3k is too much. Something
else you need to think about.

 

[Matilda]

@clbz you may have already done this, but just in case...

as a newbie myself I found pricescopes comparison page very useful for understanding prices and value (different things perhaps)

James Allen is not necessarily the cheapest vendor so that checking system really helps to gain perspective on what you are buying

 

[clbz]

I agree bmfang...not the worst but without an up-close video to see what it's doing as it moves (like the videos James Allen has), its really hard to give a
definitive "yea" or "nay".

Numbers unfortunately dont tell us much about fancy cut stones.

The jeweler needs to bring in at least 3 nice ovals for you to see. What is the current plan between you and the jeweler? Can you (or she) take some
up close videos of the stones she brings in?

I think we've already established that this stone is overpriced at $7300. On-line it would probably be priced at less than $5k. Since it is a B&M store
its only fair that she needs a little more profit to support a B&M where you can come see the stone. However, I think $7.3k is too much. Something
else you need to think about.

I’m starting to agree with you at this point. I’ve seen the diamond notice a decent bow tie and I don’t care for it much. And for the price I feel like I shouldn’t have to have one. I’m thinking about just letting her make my setting but purchase the stone elsewhere. It just seems overpriced. I was looking at the August Vintage stone posted further up and noticed it doesn’t have much of a bow tie or mushy areas. What’s your opinion on that stone if you don’t mind me asking? And also if you have any recommendations for nice ovals around that size and 4-6K cost I would gladly take them. I just want to make sure I’m getting the best stone for my money. I appreciate all your help and look forward to hearing back from you @tyty333 ! Thanks

 

[OoohShiny]

As already mentioned, the August Vintage ovals do not have a bow-tie - they are specifically designed to not have bow-tie, and have much better light performance than 'standard' ovals.

 

[tyty333]

August Vintage Ovals (Opulence Ovals) are graded by AGS and will have Ideal light return.
EDIT - just saw one that is a 1 for light return.
They have 10 mains (most ovals will be 4, 6 or 8 mains).
They are considered Super Ideal Cut ovals and would be an excellent choice. You will be hard pressed to find a "regular oval" that will have as good
light return as an OO. Usually with an OO its a trade off between size and finding an oval with light return that you consider "good enough". If light
return is your main concern (vs size) then OO is the way to go.

I'm not saying that stone she has offered you is not a good stone (overpriced yes). We just need up close videos to really see how the stone performs.

Give me a few minutes to look around to see if there are any I can suggest.

Edit...So this is the best I* could find at JA. I tried to stay over (or close) to 8mm in length
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.02-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-5932715
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.06-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-5916854
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.03-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-5640066 table a little large on this one

 

[tyty333]

A few I found at BN...a tad smaller than the ones at JA. These are really flooded with light so they tend to look better than JA stones but it is just the lighting
so dont let that affect you (how can it not right ).
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11408812
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11397929
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10503327 This is a 4 main. Just thought I'd post one.

 

[elliefire99]

Wow! @tyty333 really is the oval expert. These are beautiful. I also had never seen an oval with four mains (the last BN link I think?)... So cool! I can't decide if I like it or not, but cool to see the variety.

 

[clbz]

A few I found at BN...a tad smaller than the ones at JA. These are really flooded with light so they tend to look better than JA stones but it is just the lighting
so dont let that affect you (how can it not right ).
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11408812
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11397929
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10503327 This is a 4 main. Just thought I'd post one.

Wow thanks so much for all the suggestions! You picked well, I was struggling to find any without a significant bow tie and/or mushy areas in the diamond. Sorry to keep asking so many questions, but I’m your opinion, what’s the ideal oval diamond if I want a good mix of light return and nice surface area size? I of course want the diamond to look gorgeous in the light but also want it to not look small looking at it. Are there any specs I should be looking for to attain this? (Table%, depth, etc?) I really do like the diamonds you’ve suggested though, and again thanks for all the help. I’m so glad I reached out because I feel more in control and knowledgeable of the whole process.

 

[tyty333]

Unfortunately, there are no numbers to stick to that will give you a stone that has nice light return. I try to stay away from overly deep, overly shallow, large
tables and extreme girdles. A girdle that is mostly extremely thick will hide extra weight. A girdle that is extremely thin/very thin may have chipping issues.
Stones really have to be evaluated on their looks vs. their numbers.

You can use this chart but it wont tell you if the stone you picked is a stone with nice faceting and good light return
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/oval-cut-diamond

 

[clbz]

Unfortunately, there are no numbers to stick to that will give you a stone that has nice light return. I try to stay away from overly deep, overly shallow, large
tables and extreme girdles. A girdle that is mostly extremely thick will hide extra weight. A girdle that is extremely thin/very thin may have chipping issues.
Stones really have to be evaluated on their looks vs. their numbers.

You can use this chart but it wont tell you if the stone you picked is a stone with nice faceting and good light return
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/oval-cut-diamond

Hey @tyty333 I've been looking at some diamonds on James Allen and I've narrowed it down to a couple. Could you please look at them and tell me which you prefer and why? Also if there are any outstanding features I should be aware about. I would really appreciate it. Or, if you have anymore you'd like to throw out there, I'd be willing to look! Thanks

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.03-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-5640066

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.02-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-6049857

 

[OoohShiny]

The 1.02 is a 4-mains stone, I think, which is less common.

Both have some windowing and 'mush' at tilt angles, from what I can see, but that may be true of all ovals to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[tyty333]

I think either of these would be a good choice. I* prefer the faceting of ovals more like round brilliants (like the 1.03) however, the 4 main (1.02)
looks like it is has pretty good light return and is a tad bit larger. The 1.03 has a little nicer ratio to me*. Both do have some mush but that is typical
of ovals (except OOs). The point is to minimize the mush. These are fairly minimal IMO*.
You have to decide what you like to see. If you like both of them then it would make since to go with the bigger one. James Allen has a good return
policy so if you receive it and its not what you like to see in a stone, return it for the other one (hopefully the other one will still be available but ???).

1.02 on left 1.03 on right.