100$ Ruby challenge

[ephsea]

Edward Bristol from Wildfish Gems has issued a challenge - he doesn't there is a single other 2+ct clean, unheated, precision cut ruby on the market. Says he's got a Benji for anyone that proves him wrong. If anyone is up to this challenge, it's PSer's!
http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/10826/18123

 

[T L]

Edward Bristol from Wildfish Gems has issued a challenge - he doesn't there is a single other 2+ct clean, unheated, precision cut ruby on the market. Says he's got a Benji for anyone that proves him wrong. If anyone is up to this challenge, it's PSer's!
http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/10826/18123

Looks more like a pink sapphire to me than a ruby. It's purplish pink. It also looks to have a crack in the corner, which would be an issue if prong set. I would be careful not to put the prong there.

There's a ruby that's more red on this page, which has "faint inclusions" and is precision cut I believe. It's also unheated, and from Mozambique. I don't want to win this challenge, but I have an issue with AIGS calling the above stone a "ruby."

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_pink.html

Dealers can charge whatever they want, but $52K for a 2 carat purplish pink sapphire only because its unheated, and precision cut? For $52K, I want the color to pop at me, and it doesn't at all, especially in the hand shot. In fact, it looks rather dark, or "closed" to me. Does this stone even have fluorescence? That would also be a requirement for that kind of money.

I like this one better for $3K, and yes, I know its from Tan, but he will provide a lab report. This one doesn't seem to have such a weird corner inclusion either. It's just shy of 2 carats. I like $1500/ct better. LOL!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-92ct-UNHEATED-Heart-Cut-Natural-Hot-Pink-Ruby-/331173349898?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item4d1b784a0a

 

[ephsea]

Yeah, I'm guessing the 100 is a gift certificate to WFG, which would't cover a piece of quartz... I very often see "rubies" posted on PS decried as merely sapphires. What's the accepted trade hue at which corundum becomes a ruby? Is there a clear line to be drawn?

 

[T L]

Yeah, I'm guessing the 100 is a gift certificate to WFG, which would't cover a piece of quartz... I very often see "rubies" posted on PS decried as merely sapphires. What's the accepted trade hue at which corundum becomes a ruby? Is there a clear line to be drawn?

Well, maybe Ed can come on to defend his piece from what I said, but I just cannot justify paying around $25K/ct for that. I rather get an unheated Burmese ruby which isn't precision cut, and glows bright red, or even a fine sapphire ($52K can go a long way in finding a really fine unheated sapphire). I love precision cutting like others, but I cannot justify the price for that stone.

 

[LoversKites]

Yeah, I'm guessing the 100 is a gift certificate to WFG, which would't cover a piece of quartz... I very often see "rubies" posted on PS decried as merely sapphires. What's the accepted trade hue at which corundum becomes a ruby? Is there a clear line to be drawn?

Ahhh this question comes up sometimes here on PS. Chrono shared this great link once about the matter, here it is again. Thanks chrono.
http://www.palagems.com/ruby_sapphire_borders.htm

I do hope Ed will give his opinion on the ruby- pink sapphire in question.

 

[psproot12]

TL,
Maybe it's just terrible settings on the camera that's making the stone look so pinkish-purple in the photo, or maybe WIldfish gems needs to come back down to earth and realize that although there are few great rubies on the market, if they're going to post a challenge like this, they should at least use their best stone and not a fascia sapphire!

 

[T L]

TL,
Maybe it's just terrible settings on the camera that's making the stone look so pinkish-purple in the photo, or maybe WIldfish gems needs to come back down to earth and realize that although there are few great rubies on the market, if they're going to post a challenge like this, they should at least use their best stone and not a fascia sapphire!

The AIGS report in the "more images" section denotes the color as red-purple.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

I am not seeing the red unfortunately, Also is it just me or would this stone appear to be on the darker side in real life? The hand shot makes me think this.
~Justin

 

[cm366]

I think this is mostly a challenge for fun, or as said above maybe a gift certificate - vendors like this one could certainly provide plenty of examples.

http://www.ahakimi.com/

For what it's worth, I got this stone a few weeks ago for well under $1k and although it's not precision cut I'll bet its colour beats the WF stone all hollow.

Edited to add: I need a hand model, STAT!

 

[T L]

This is not precision cut, but it's eye clean (almost loupe clean), unheated, and around the same size as the WF ruby, slightly above two carats. It's also brighter in color in the photos. It also has a nice native cut. See the video as well. Tokyo Gem Lab deemed it pinkish red, not purple-red like AIGS did for the WF stone.

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/ruby-2.03-carats.html

It's around half the price of the WF stone. So does precision faceting justify a 25K increase in price?

 

[minousbijoux]

Well done, CM366! You should be the one helping find these guys rubies because yours is a great example.

 

[cm366]

Nice find, TL! I don't think that precision cut is worth $25k, although I know a lot of faceters who'd LOVE to make it! I don't think the Wildfish stone will actually sell at that price, though - Ed gives a 5% discount for giving him your demographic info and a 25% discount for regular buyers, and those are just the posted discounts. He also runs at least one rewards program. I suspect that for a regular customer, the posted prices are a lot like an insurance appraisal.

He does also specify in the challenge that the ruby be *round* and precision cut, which might narrow the field a little further. Still, I'm sure the folks from Pala, Richard Hughes, or Mr. Hakimi could all claim that prize if they liked. Any PSers with a 2ct+ round ruby care to get $100 toward offsetting the cost of having it precision cut?



Thanks Minou! It's more red and less pink in hand than the photos suggest, looks exactly like a wild cherry Lifesaver in most lighting. It's only 1.36ct, though, and has had low heat, so I couldn't take Ed's prize if I wanted. Can't wait to see someone claim it!

 

[dk168]

Glad to see I am not the only one who thought the price for that ruby is somewhat unjustified.

It is my kind of colour, however, at 52k USD for 2.19ct??? I guess the high price has something to do with the prestige of having an unheated and untreated ruby with sufficient clarity worthy of a precision cut.

Personally I'd rather spend that much on pink sapphires, spinals and tourmalines, and could probably get a stone a lot bigger!

DK

 

[arkieb1]

I wasn't even looking at the cut - the wildfish stone that is "the challenge" is a terrible colour for a ruby.

 

[T L]

I don't think the Wildfish stone will actually sell at that price, though

I think it will sell. Not everyone is half as educated as your typical Pricescope consumer, and they'll think it's special because it's the "only" precision cut, eye clean, "ruby" on the market. The whole challenge, IMO, is meant to give it that price justification. Again, dealers can charge anything they want. They can charge a million dollars on a CZ if they want to, it's not against the law, but it's up to the consumer to know if that's a fair price.

 

[ephsea]

CM the color on your ruby is TDF! Minous is right, I'm asking you for help if I'm ever flush and ruby-hunting.
I fact-checked my previous statement that 100 wouldn't cover a piece of quartz at WFG, and the cheapest quartz in stock is on "sale" for 390$.

 

[LoversKites]

CM the color on your ruby is TDF! Minous is right, I'm asking you for help if I'm ever flush and ruby-hunting.
I fact-checked my previous statement that 100 wouldn't cover a piece of quartz at WFG, and the cheapest quartz in stock is on "sale" for 390$.

I don't think that we should put a vendor down just because they charge premium prices. They can charge whatever they please to suit their target market. Ed has explained about his high prices before on PS and he is well aware of them. I can't find the specific thread he spoke about this right now.

I want to hear what Ed has to say before I get myself into drama, or sound like I am accusing WFG without a good reason

 

[Edward Bristol]

Sorry, but I think I am not allowed to comment about my own products on PS.

The 100 is in cash.

 

[chrono]

My personal classification of what makes it a pink sapphire versus ruby is based on the dominant colour. If the lab deems the primary colour as purple, then to me, it isn't a ruby.

http://www.gia.edu/ruby-quality-factor

Quote:
Some gem dealers debate the borderline between ruby and pink sapphire. Historically, the word ruby referred to shades of red, which technically included pink. There are also cultural differences in the interpretation of ruby versus pink sapphire. In some gem-producing nations such as Sri Lanka, pink colors were always considered ruby, while in many consuming countries it is classified as pink sapphire. The GIA Laboratory uses a controlled set of comparison stones called masterstones to determine if corundum is ruby or if it’s pink, purple, or orange sapphire. The laboratory grades its masterstones on the principle that red must be the dominant hue before a stone can be called a ruby. In the gem trade, though, identification of the dominant hue is subject to personal perception.

 

[ephsea]

Well I certainly could use 100 in cash, it's a nice offer. It seems to me that emailing Pala or anyone to see if they have inventory that is not listed is "cheating". Ed's stones are listed for anyone to see on the internet (which is why I peruse his catalog, what a collection!). Seems to me that the challenge-winning stone would also have to be publicly listed as a for sale item.

 

[PrecisionGem]

My personal classification of what makes it a pink sapphire versus ruby is based on the dominant colour. If the lab deems the primary colour as purple, then to me, it isn't a ruby.

http://www.gia.edu/ruby-quality-factor

Quote:
Some gem dealers debate the borderline between ruby and pink sapphire. Historically, the word ruby referred to shades of red, which technically included pink. There are also cultural differences in the interpretation of ruby versus pink sapphire. In some gem-producing nations such as Sri Lanka, pink colors were always considered ruby, while in many consuming countries it is classified as pink sapphire. The GIA Laboratory uses a controlled set of comparison stones called masterstones to determine if corundum is ruby or if it’s pink, purple, or orange sapphire. The laboratory grades its masterstones on the principle that red must be the dominant hue before a stone can be called a ruby. In the gem trade, though, identification of the dominant hue is subject to personal perception.

In the trade, we say what some times determines a ruby from a sapphire is what side of the table you are sitting on. (buying or selling)

 

[Edward Bristol]

For those who are not attracted by cash, I will add 1000 square meter of Columbian rainforest for conservation (including certificate).

 

[chrono]

In the trade, we say what some times determines a ruby from a sapphire is what side of the table you are sitting on. (buying or selling)

Gene,
So true.

For those who are not attracted by cash, I will add 1000 square meter of Columbian rainforest for conservation (including certificate).

Ed,
Just out of curiousity, how will those who are interested in participating be assured that the 1000 square meter of rainforest will indeed be protected/conserved? Are you doing this through a conservation group/organization?

 

[Edward Bristol]

Yes, I get certificates for every our customers. Last year we bought 36 acres of Columbian rain forest. World Land Trust, they are called. British organisation. I know some PS'lers have gotten these certificates from us.

 

[cm366]

For those who are not attracted by cash, I will add 1000 square meter of Columbian rainforest for conservation (including certificate).

This is an awesome response. I love when Ed posts here!

 

[chrono]

Thank you, Ed. I like your new offer/challenge!

For those who are curious, WLT's website is below:
http://www.worldlandtrust.org

 

[Edward Bristol]

Thanks cm366, and nice to hear from you, Chrono!

 

[ephsea]

I submitted this one, I do like the color. I could really use some scratch this month to pay Jerry Newman.
http://www.rwwise.com/products/category%7C86

 

[ephsea]

Would everyone prefer pictures to links?

 

[boerumbiddy]

Is the R.W. Wise ruby still available? At one point in his great retirement sale, when it was marked down to half price, I was sorely tempted to spend every bit of liquid cash I had on it. Pretty close to my holy grail. It has just about everything! The listing is still there, but has anyone been in touch with him since he retired?