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1.5 Carat RB Diamond color

tunaunagi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
4
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?


This is another question I have.
If you get to choose one of the following two RB stones, which would you choose?

1.51 carat F VS1 - triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.45

vs

1.78 carat I VS1 (about $2,200 more expensive) -triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.77

Thanks in advance!
 

Rivendell

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
156
I think so - I'm colour sensitive and could see the difference when I was shown different colour stones. Personally I wouldn't be happy with an I colour as I prefer the icy white colour.
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
tunaunagi|1468098809|4053705 said:
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?


This is another question I have.
If you get to choose one of the following two RB stones, which would you choose?

1.51 carat F VS1 - triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.45

vs

1.78 carat I VS1 (about $2,200 more expensive) -triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.77

Thanks in advance!

It will depend on many factors. Is the recipient color sensitive? Does she have a preference in terms of color and size? Are you going to set the diamond in white gold, platinum, yellow or rose gold?

Also not all GIA triple excellent diamonds are top performers. Generally speaking, GIA has a greater tolerance for what gets the top grade. If you want an ideal-cut diamond that delivers great light performance, you need to make sure that it has proper proportions and great ideal scope/ASET scope images.

I prefer to use the following criteria to search for diamonds. Other PS members have slightly different preferences though.

Table: 54 - 57%
Depth: 60 - 61.9%
Crown angle: 34 to 35 degrees
Pavilion angle: 40.6 - 40.8 degrees
Lower girdle length: 75 - 80% (75 to 77% would have bold fire while 80% is optimized for pin-fire)
Star length: 45 - 55%
girdle thickness: Thin-Medium
 

tunaunagi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
4
Rivendell|1468101470|4053724 said:
I think so - I'm colour sensitive and could see the difference when I was shown different colour stones. Personally I wouldn't be happy with an I colour as I prefer the icy white colour.
I am quiet color sensitive as well. I visited a jewelry shop to compare an F and an I stone, but it was not so easy to tell the difference. It is probably because of the lighting. I definitely want an icy white color stone. If I prefer the icy white color, is I not the right color? Do you think an F color stone will be icy white?
 

tunaunagi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
4
fair75|1468103081|4053732 said:
tunaunagi|1468098809|4053705 said:
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?


This is another question I have.
If you get to choose one of the following two RB stones, which would you choose?

1.51 carat F VS1 - triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.45

vs

1.78 carat I VS1 (about $2,200 more expensive) -triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.77

Thanks in advance!

It will depend on many factors. Is the recipient color sensitive? Does she have a preference in terms of color and size? Are you going to set the diamond in white gold, platinum, yellow or rose gold?

Also not all GIA triple excellent diamonds are top performers. Generally speaking, GIA has a greater tolerance for what gets the top grade. If you want an ideal-cut diamond that delivers great light performance, you need to make sure that it has proper proportions and great ideal scope/ASET scope images.

I prefer to use the following criteria to search for diamonds. Other PS members have slightly different preferences though.

Table: 54 - 57%
Depth: 60 - 61.9%
Crown angle: 34 to 35 degrees
Pavilion angle: 40.6 - 40.8 degrees
Lower girdle length: 75 - 80% (75 to 77% would have bold fire while 80% is optimized for pin-fire)
Star length: 45 - 55%
girdle thickness: Thin-Medium


Size is important but only if the color won't show visual difference between F and I. If I prefer icy white, is an I color stone not the right color to look at? Would F color be icy white?
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,809
It's harder to see the color under jewelry store spot lighting. Once you have the stone in normal lighting conditions, it will be easier to notice the difference. I am color sensitive too so I like MRB stones G/H or better. If you want icy white, definitely stick to DEFG.
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
tunaunagi|1468105326|4053747 said:
Rivendell|1468101470|4053724 said:
I think so - I'm colour sensitive and could see the difference when I was shown different colour stones. Personally I wouldn't be happy with an I colour as I prefer the icy white colour.
I am quiet color sensitive as well. I visited a jewelry shop to compare an F and an I stone, but it was not so easy to tell the difference. It is probably because of the lighting. I definitely want an icy white color stone. If I prefer the icy white color, is I not the right color? Do you think an F color stone will be icy white?

If you are indeed color sensitive and prefer the icy white look, you will be safe with an ideal-cut F color diamond. It will be difficult for most people to distinguish between a D and an F, even if they are compared side by side. I color diamonds are good bargains when they are ideally cut and when set in white or platinum setting, they will look white face up. However, they won't be icy white and you can see some yellow tint if you look at the stones from the side.

One thing I want to point out is that G color diamonds can look very close to F, especially when they are well-cut, have ideal proportions and show great ideal scope/ASET scope images. The key is to look at some ideal-cut GIA or AGS certified G and F color diamonds in stores and see if you like the way G colors look. If you do, you would save some money in most cases. If not, you can always fall back on F color diamonds.
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
24,168
I would pay more for the F. I prefer the icy whiteness of a colorless diamond.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,462
tunaunagi|1468098809|4053705 said:
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?
Yes, but you must also compare its cut quality too.. ;))
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Dancing Fire|1468118003|4053821 said:
tunaunagi|1468098809|4053705 said:
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?
Yes, but you must also compare its cut quality too.. ;))

If the diamonds' performance is equal: I would prefer an F. But I would honestly be just as happy with a G. And I would prefer an H over an I. This is for modern brilliants.

For other shapes/faceting patterns my preferences are different.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,064
tunaunagi|1468105326|4053747 said:
Rivendell|1468101470|4053724 said:
I think so - I'm colour sensitive and could see the difference when I was shown different colour stones. Personally I wouldn't be happy with an I colour as I prefer the icy white colour.
I am quiet color sensitive as well. I visited a jewelry shop to compare an F and an I stone, but it was not so easy to tell the difference. It is probably because of the lighting. I definitely want an icy white color stone. If I prefer the icy white color, is I not the right color? Do you think an F color stone will be icy white?
If you like icy white, for sure go for the F. You can barely tell anything under jewelry store lights. But for SURE you will be able to tell the difference between the I and the F outside. Yes, PAY the $3K.
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
tunaunagi|1468098809|4053705 said:
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?


This is another question I have.
If you get to choose one of the following two RB stones, which would you choose?

1.51 carat F VS1 - triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.45

vs

1.78 carat I VS1 (about $2,200 more expensive) -triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.77

Thanks in advance!
Are you sure about those diameters? Those are not diameters that will allow a diamond to even reach one carat, no matter if they are GIA REALLY steep/deeps.

Wink
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Wink has noticed the most important thing here, but then he is the professional.

As he said a 1 carat diamond should be 6.5mm so these sizes you are quoting are for less than a half carat which in round is usually 5mm.


Is it maybe depth you are mixing up with diameter?
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
For colour, yes I would notice a difference but the real answer is what you think. Everyone has different likes and dislikes and with antique jewellery being in fashion the warmer diamonds suit it better. It is really all the same, if you go larger you go down in colour unless there is a lot of money available for the stone, if you go icy white you go down in size. It is really your choice only. Like do you like black chocolate or milk chocolate or white chocolate?
 

acaw2015

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
798
I think you are going about this the wrong way. :wavey:

The way to do it is to decide your own tolerance re color. Make sure to see the different colors in different lightings. Asking people on a forum is not a good idea. Some people want higher color for cultural reasons. Some are simply color sensitive. And some simply want the biggest stone and arent bothered by a little bit of tint from the side view. I would personally like H and would choose that for a rb to maximize size, but that doesnt mean that you would. I would say that it is really unnecessary to spend the extra dollars on a D-G. Then again, you may not agree.
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
Pyramid|1468168368|4054005 said:
Wink has noticed the most important thing here, but then he is the professional.

As he said a 1 carat diamond should be 6.5mm so these sizes you are quoting are for less than a half carat which in round is usually 5mm.


Is it maybe depth you are mixing up with diameter?
Hey, I represent that remark! :angel:

Also, as has also been pointed out, GIA XXX really can mean a great diamond or a lifeless lump of crystallized carbon, and it is so hard to tell which is which if you are only relying on the GIA cut grade. It is so broad as to be virtually worthless for picking a diamond.

Wink
 

tunaunagi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
4
Wink|1468160101|4053972 said:
tunaunagi|1468098809|4053705 said:
Is it worth paying abour $3k to upgrade the color grade from I to an F for 1.50 carat RB cut diamond? Both triple ex cut.
Would there be a huge differene between F color and I color?


This is another question I have.
If you get to choose one of the following two RB stones, which would you choose?

1.51 carat F VS1 - triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.45

vs

1.78 carat I VS1 (about $2,200 more expensive) -triple ex cut
Diameter: 4.77

Thanks in advance!
Are you sure about those diameters? Those are not diameters that will allow a diamond to even reach one carat, no matter if they are GIA REALLY steep/deeps.

Wink

Oh, I made a mistake!
They are 7.45 and 7.77, not 4.45 and 4.77!

Thank you for pointing that out!
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
I was pretty sure you had. In fact it was not until I started to prepare a complex reply to your inquiry about the GIA steep deep allowable combinations and their excessive rounding that I actually read closely enough to catch it myself. I decided that there are plenty of posts about the GIA stuff so decided to tease you a little. :angel:

I cannot comment on whether one or the other of the diamonds is better even if I did have all the information since I am a tradesman here and that would be not allowed under forum rules.

You are being well guided in being advised to look at the cutting. I hope you are having a great experience in finding you diamond!

Wink
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
8,192
If you have the stones safely tucked away at the jewellers, rather than just being identified as available on a list of Virtual Inventory that the jeweller will then call in when you decide, can you post the certificate numbers and all the dimensions / specs?
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
932
Wink already pointed out that the depth numbers you gave have to be wrong.

Color: Definitely not I for "icy white." I is a creamy white. I have a 6.3mm OEC that was graded I color and it has strong blue fluor, so it faces up remarkably white but it's definitely creamy from the side. I with no blue flour is creamy white. I'm going to say that the cutoff for "icy white" in the carat weight you're looking for is definitely not I, is most likely not G or H, and may restrict you to the GIA G / H / I range. What you need to keep in mind is that as carat weight increases, the mass of the diamond increases, and the larger the diamond the more it concentrates tint. You may need to actually go up in color as you increase the size, in order to keep the same apparent color. A colorless CZ is a D diamond color.

I have owned a GIA 3X 1.19ct G SI2 H&A RB from Good Old Gold. It was what I'd call icy. In fact, if I placed it beside a colorless CZ, the only way I could tell the two apart was close scrutiny face down or from the side, where the slight tint in the G became evident. Sublet but evident. I now own an AGS 000 F SI2 H&A RB from Good Old Gold, and it has more warmth than the GIA G did. There have been discussions on here over the past couple of years where some people said AGS grades softer on color than GIA does. I feel that's true in the case of my diamond. That's something to ask the vendor if you are considering any AGS graded diamonds. I don't know if AGS is still reportedly "soft on color" or not. Some vendors like GOG have a colorimeter that they can use to determine whether a stone is high, middle, or low of its color grade. It's not an exact science, and I'm not sure whether colorimeters have fallen out of favor or not. Calibration may be an issue.

I also own an uncerted 1.02ct RB that a GIA gemologist graded H SI1. I'd definitely call it icy white. I never set or wore the G SI2, so I don't have a mounted stone comparison between that G and the uncerted "H". My "H" is white enough for me. I never think it's tinted the least bit, at least not when mounted. (Admittedly, since it's never been sent to GIA, there's no way to know that it would not be actually graded G by GIA.) I think H with blue flour might be a compromise that I could live with in a 1.5 - 1.6ct RB.

Clarity is what I'm willing to give up in order to get size and color and cut without breaking the bank. I don't even care whether my diamonds are 100% eyeclean all of the time or not. In fact, my awesome F SI2 is not. But I wore that diamond 2 days before I realized that I could see the inclusion under specific conditions. To me, clarity is the LEAST important property (and most overrated) after 10 years of picking diamonds for myself.
 

tracylt

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2016
Messages
125
AdaBeta27|1468267990|4054461 said:
Wink already pointed out that the depth numbers you gave have to be wrong.

Color: Definitely not I for "icy white." I is a creamy white. I have a 6.3mm OEC that was graded I color and it has strong blue fluor, so it faces up remarkably white but it's definitely creamy from the side. I with no blue flour is creamy white. I'm going to say that the cutoff for "icy white" in the carat weight you're looking for is definitely not I, is most likely not G or H, and may restrict you to the GIA G / H / I range. What you need to keep in mind is that as carat weight increases, the mass of the diamond increases, and the larger the diamond the more it concentrates tint. You may need to actually go up in color as you increase the size, in order to keep the same apparent color. A colorless CZ is a D diamond color.

I have owned a GIA 3X 1.19ct G SI2 H&A RB from Good Old Gold. It was what I'd call icy. In fact, if I placed it beside a colorless CZ, the only way I could tell the two apart was close scrutiny face down or from the side, where the slight tint in the G became evident. Sublet but evident. I now own an AGS 000 F SI2 H&A RB from Good Old Gold, and it has more warmth than the GIA G did. There have been discussions on here over the past couple of years where some people said AGS grades softer on color than GIA does. I feel that's true in the case of my diamond. That's something to ask the vendor if you are considering any AGS graded diamonds. I don't know if AGS is still reportedly "soft on color" or not. Some vendors like GOG have a colorimeter that they can use to determine whether a stone is high, middle, or low of its color grade. It's not an exact science, and I'm not sure whether colorimeters have fallen out of favor or not. Calibration may be an issue.

I also own an uncerted 1.02ct RB that a GIA gemologist graded H SI1. I'd definitely call it icy white. I never set or wore the G SI2, so I don't have a mounted stone comparison between that G and the uncerted "H". My "H" is white enough for me. I never think it's tinted the least bit, at least not when mounted. (Admittedly, since it's never been sent to GIA, there's no way to know that it would not be actually graded G by GIA.) I think H with blue flour might be a compromise that I could live with in a 1.5 - 1.6ct RB.

Clarity is what I'm willing to give up in order to get size and color and cut without breaking the bank. I don't even care whether my diamonds are 100% eyeclean all of the time or not. In fact, my awesome F SI2 is not. But I wore that diamond 2 days before I realized that I could see the inclusion under specific conditions. To me, clarity is the LEAST important property (and most overrated) after 10 years of picking diamonds for myself.
I'm glad you posted this, AdaBeta. I have to agree with you. I have both J graded color GIA stone and AGS stone, and with my untrained eyes I can tell immediately that the AGS stone is warmer. I brought them to my jeweler and he said the same thing, although he's not the most knowledgeable jeweler in the world. Both reports were only a couple months old, so I think AGS is still softer on color nowadays.
 

FancyIntense

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
278
Colors are a range. Both can be J with one having yellow undertones and one with brown or grey, but both graded J. Cut plays a role to a degree also in how you perceive color. They are graded face down not face up.

I have a stone that is duel certed by both GIA and AGS. They both gave it the same grade. I don't think AGS is soft on color, personally.

I prefer F color, but I would take a HUGE I color in a heart beat.

In these sizes, F color is what I would choose.
 
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