1.42 Spinel how much should you pay?

[MustangFan]

Looking to purchase a spinel on ebay it''s 1.42 cts.
A nice red with pink tones, what should a spinel like this go for?
What is the going rate for a good quality Spinel per carat weight?

 

[MustangFan]

I love this spinel''s color, what should you pay for a piece like this?

 

[colorchange]

Not so much as the chances are that what you will receive will look darker.

80-100$ is the average price these stones are going at "reputable sellers" * .



* Indeed there are very little reputable sellers on ebay, most won''t use auction because selling through an auction means doing the same enhanced photos, the same false allegation (burma unheated ruby that is indee Be treated etc) to sell above wholesale price.
Usually they will list with certificates from reputable labs to be easily recognised.

 

[MustangFan]

how can these sellers have perfect feedback if they misrepresent their stones?

Should I look for a lighter stone to get this color?

 

[strmrdr]

Gary buys mine direct and this will give you some ideas on prices.

http://diamondexpert.com/diamonds/dbs.cgi?sf=catg.setup.cgi&submit_search=1&name=Spinel

 

[movie zombie]

my experience with a gem wholesaler and after viewing lots of his affordable spinel and then seeing really gem quality spinel says that people will buy anything just to have it. for really good spinel expect to pay way more than $1800 for such a stone....but that''s the really good spinel. the best spinel this wholesaler had was $1800 and about that size.....and it still had extinction going on. in our discussion, he recognized that he had good prices for his stones for what they are/were and that if the $1800 spinel had less extinction it would be going for lots more.

the good news is that the only thing that counts is that you like the stone. doesn''t matter what anyone else thinks. these vendors know their market and they know they don''t have high grade gem quality stones. and they price accordingly. nothing wrong with that. most people don''t take the time to research a stone, get to know it, and develop an eye for it. and most of us [me included] just don''t have a money tree around to be able to afford to buy top quality each and every time. nothing wrong with that either. therefore, there is a market for these stones.

movie zombie

 

[riogems]

Date: 1/5/2007 12:13:44 PM
Author: MustangFan
how can these sellers have perfect feedback if they misrepresent their stones?

I''m thinking about starting a website dedicated to answering this question and exposing the high level of fraud on ebay. The quick answer to this question is:
1) 99%+ of consumers won''t know if they receive a genuine gemstone (this easily translates into 99%+ positive feedback)
2) In the case of receiving a genuine stone but of much worse color/clarity than pictured or described... A lot of seasoned ebay consumers will try to work it out with the seller before leaving negative feedback (because they fear reciprical retaliation) -- whereas, you''ll find new ebay users who leave negative feedback sometimes by accident. There are also a lot of people who still feel it was worth what they won it for -- even if it was inferior quality.

A quick story about how ebay fraud has impacted me... I''ve got a huge supply of chrome diopside. At least as of a few years ago I''m confident probably the largest supply of cut chrome diopside gems in the USA. Anyway, as a side hobby I was selling some on ebay, and it was just a hobby. Within 6 months, there were about 4 other regular sellers of it (one was someone who bought their supply from me slowly on ebay); yet represented it as a higher quality. At the same time other sellers were using my pictures as their own. I didn''t think much of it.

Another 6 months later, I had a number of consumers asking a lot of questions about chrome diopside, and a couple told me they bought fake chrome diopside from one seller. Using some ebay research tools, I found this seller was selling ~$20,000/month of cut green glass, and maintained something like 98%+ positive feedback. These buyers who were burned were contacting me because they wanted to know if I could do anything... they had filed complaints with ebay, and they had filed a complaint with the local law enforcement which was actually making more progress. In the meantime, this seller had accumulated over $100,000 of "easy money" online. Now, if this seller had been outside of the USA, there is probably nothing they would have been able to do.

Fast forward to today... there is a seller in Thailand selling about $12,000/month of gems on ebay -- about $5,000/month which is fake chrome diopside. Feedback - 99.6% positive. Pretty much no negative feedback in the past year... Here is what some of the feedback says:

"Beautiful chrome diopside. Thank you so much...worth the wait."
"Gorgeous deep green stone. Love it. Careful shipping and relatively quick too"
"Just wonderful gorgeous 9.6 ct Chrome Diopside, I am more than pleased!! Thanks!"

If you look through the feedback, you can see it is from people who buy a lot of gemstones too, from a whole variety of sellers.

 

[widget]

Here''s a site that I''ve found useful in checking a seller''s feedback:

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs

You enter the seller''s name, and can read all his/her neutral, negative and mutually withdrawn feedback. It can be pretty enlightening sometimes...

widget

 

[MustangFan]

Thank you for the information. I decided to not purchase it in the end. It''s very tempting to buy

 

[jackiely]

If you have adventurous blood you can cut your stone from rough, better with a local faceter who can help you in the reading. Here is what I found about spinel rough offered online: http://www.kingdomofredspinels.com/gems.asp?category_id=25&sort_by=product_id&page=2


Jackie

 

[ger100]

Thanks widget for that SW link to quickly check ebay FB''s! What a great tool.

While we''re on Spinels. I just received the following stone off ebay, Singapore. The photo is the seller''s. I had shown this under another topic and was questioned about the light area in the middle, that it might be a window. It is not a window (can''t see through it), but I don''t know what to call it.

This stone was said to be a fiery red Namya (Burma) Spinel, 3.2 cts, VVS, small nick on girdle.

First what is is: It is 3.2 cts; it is VVS; it has a small nick on the girdle; it is Spinel.

HOWEVER, the color is very DARK, with a BROWN tint, so much so that it looks almost like a GARNET! There is extinction all around the edges on the face...the only way you can see RED is by turning it in various directions so that light reflects...it is very dark. AND, the center section is definitely not a window (depth is good, 5.2, with overall measurements 10 x 8.2), but some kind of light area, which I''m sure is related to how it was cut. **If anyone has a name for this type of appearance (central light area, NOT a window), please let me know.

I paid $200. I guess it''s worth it, since Newmann says the lower grades, those which resemble garnet, are in that price range. BUT, I don''t like it since I already have a beautiful red garnet (2 cts, cushion) which was way cheaper. So I''m on the verge of sending it back. Fortunately the postage is only from my end, since the seller offered free shipping from his end for Christmas.

Comments please??

Thanks
Ger

PS: Of the few stones which I''ve gotten off ebay, more than half have windows...I bought these early and most were not expensive. Many are of a different hue, or darker or lighter. Some were obviously NOT the stones shown in the picture, different shapes even...talk about nervy. A couple were real "gems," well worth the price.

 

[ger100]

Just one more comment about ebay sellers: several of the "reputable" dealers which folks here have recommended, ALSO sell on ebay!

One wonders why they would bother, given the bad rep ebay itself has.

As I''ve said before, I''ve ebayed almost from the start, and have seen a lot of sneaky stuff done by sellers of antique glass (my main thing), including packing broken glass while insisting that the buyer pay for insurance. They then deny that the glass was broken before packing, counting on the buyer to go and make an insurance claim! Talk about creative fraud.
Ger

 

[ger100]

Red Spinel FU. I can''t do a decent photo, so I just mucked around in Photoshop. This is closer to what the "fiery red spinel" really looks like, if you take away most of the sparkles...ick.

Ger

 

[movie zombie]

not meaning to be rude but for $200 you got what you paid for. a real true red sparkle spinel will be thousands.

movie zombie

 

[ger100]

Date: 1/6/2007 10:24:04 PM
Author: movie zombie
not meaning to be rude but for $200 you got what you paid for. a real true red sparkle spinel will be thousands.

movie zombie

movie zombie: You''re not being rude, but you''re not paying much attention to the text.

Quoting from my previous note:

"I paid $200. I guess it''s worth it, since Newmann says the lower grades, those which resemble garnet, are in that price range."

The topic was a red spinel on ebay. This IS a red spinel from ebay.

I thought someone might be interested in seeing what a difference there is when they light up these stones, compared to what they look like in real life. AND, as I also said, I''ve decided to send it back because I have a nicer, albeit a tad smaller, RED GARNET with a good cut, one which doesn''t have that odd center...and which was a lot cheaper.

Meanwhile, is there a name for that odd looking lighter area in the center??

Thanks,
Ger

 

[jackiely]

$200 for such a dark stone is expensive! I think that lighter area is a zoning that is unusual for a spinel. If the stone comes from Thailand there is a high chance the stone was heat-treated. Believe it or not it is a pratice in Thailand burners heat spinels to improve clarity and sometimes, to lighten the tone! Also, many of their spinels are purposely oiled to hide fractures nearby the surface of the stone.

 

[colorchange]

Indeed I still don't understand how buyers do not leave neg feedback, but here are a few clues :
- Most sellers will readily accept to refund part of the sale price.
- Most buyers do not even think that gems may not be genuine, based on feedback.
- Most buyers are happy with whatever they will get. They are sold crap but a crap in real life is somehow better for them than a fine gem on a screen.
- Many many gems are returned (some gems come back for sale every 2 monthes).
- BEWARE OF PRIVATE AUCTIONS : They are meant to block buyers from beeing warned by sympathetic ebayers.

But :
- There are good sellers on ebay.
- I sometimes sell on ebay. Indeed I've made an average 1500 dollar per month of sale (one expensive stone every 2-3 month) through it, which is not serious for me but anyway…
- There ARE some good Thai and US sellers. But they are a small minority and not easy to find. They will sell much over "ebay" price to regular clients and will almost never auction. A lot of Thai sellers arrive on ebay as good and turn soon to selling crap because it's the only way to make money.
- REMEMBER : When a deal is too good to be true, usually it's not. Typically a US seller used to sell 1000 dollar a week of synthetic sapphire on ebay. All his gems were perfect blue and saif to be unheated Burma. All obviously machine cut and calibrated. His gems on average sold for 200 dollar. Another (German) seller was selling African sapphire as Kashmir on very regular basis.
- There ARE some good deals on ebay too because the rare good sellers are opportunistic and will buy just anything underpriced in Thailand to sell it fast on ebay at a relatively small margin.
- A lot of sellers are selling genuine but misrepresented gems.
- Ebay somehow sells all the crap gems that are not worth beeing set in jewellery. That's why you can get a bad genuine sapphire for almost nothing, a bad genuine spinel for almost nothing too etc.

 

[MustangFan]

ger100,
No, thank you that was helpful. I''m so glad that you share that with me and your experience.

 

[ger100]

MustangFan:
The spinel is on its way back to Singapore. Cost me $10.50 for registered mail (only safe way to track at USPS, or so said my postagl person). I always return ANYTHING with a way to track it, usually Priority with deliviery confirmation, but apparently foreign stuff is different. Anywho, this is my $10.50 lesson for the week.

Certainly cheaper than hundreds of dollars.
Ger

PS: compare the backgrounds on stones on ebay. Some backgrounds from the same dealer will look gray, while others will look bright white. It''s a clue that they''re mucking around with the lightsource to make something appear either richer in the first case, or lighter/brighter in the second...I just caught onto this myself!

 

[diamondfan]

Not to thread jack, but I am just so disgusted by the lengths people go to in scamming people. Ebay is just NOT a great thing overall to me now, since even when you go through proper channels it seems nothing happens to the perpetrator. I would just avoid it all together, I have had two really bad experiences there and lost a lot of money. Just try to be patient and find what you want through a legit gem site...just my .02...

 

[MustangFan]

You are not thread jacking diamondfan,

I think this is a very informative post. Hopefully it will prevent people from learning the hard way....

 

[ger100]

Mustangfan:

I got "burned" by another ebay seller (stones just received today, but purchased in December, like the spinel). This was from Thailand, seller quatl88. He has his bidders'' identities hidden. I had asked why, and the reply was that he didn''t want his "valuable" repeat customers to be bothered by emails from all kinds of people.

Fact is, as another poster said (in a long email about ebay), that we should STAY AWAY from sellers who hide their bidders'' identities. What they''re really doing is trying to keep someone else from warning the bidders away from their bad stuff!

What''s particularly sickening about this quatl88, is that he says he will charge a restocking fee of 20%, unless there is an error. This plus lost postage both ways becomes a financial disaster! I told him that I would put in a VISA dispute if he does charge 20%. Of 4 rubies which I got from him, I kept only one. All were the same color, a pinkish-red, all translucent (not VS-SI, or blood red, or pigeon blood...unless from very anemic people/pigeons), as he stated. In other words, several hundred dollars worth of JUNK! These were supposedly unheated rubies, selling like hotcakes on ebay.

The one I kept was about $20, and more the color of a pink sapphire, 2.2 cts, with inclusions, which give it a sleepy rosey pink look. But it is much much cleaner than the others. Worth $20, but no prize winner. In retrospect I probably should have sent all 4 stones back, because a partial return might muddy the refund waters...

This guy had obviously mucked around with the colors & the lighting on his photos, AND I think that at least one stone was not the one pictured...I remember a black inclusion on the photo, but it was not on the stone!

On the other hand, I just got a fairly nice 1.5 ct medium blue-violet Iolite, said to be cut like a Tanzie, also from Thailand, $19 with shipping. The sellers Iolite photo follows. It is a nice stone, but again, the it''s a bit darker in real life, more inky than the blue shown...it does sparkle though. AND it does resemble my trilion Tanzie (like a close cousin). I wanted a decent Iolite to compare to Tanzie, and I got it. I had read so many comparisons of Iolite and Tanzie, that I wanted to see for myself.

It would seem that this is a common theme on ebay: stones ARE usually darker than pictured, as someone else alluded earlier. plus all the other stuff! I''d guess that 80% of ebay stones are not worth the trouble and expense. I am pretty much cured...might just venture out here and there on el cheapos. On the other hand, I have corresponded with a couple of US guys who deal with home state (native) stones. Can''t wait to see what there''s will turn out to be like. I found them on a search.

Ger