What It's like to live in a well-governed country

[Tekate]

I don't mean this to be derogatory.

Is DH white? How old is DH? when I went to college (70s) college did not cost as much as today, I was able to take and pay back my loan within 5 years of graduating. Computers were just coming around and there were soon to be tons of new and exciting jobs in this field.. not so much now I borrowed 4K, that 4k today is 40K today Interest rates were a lot higher in those days, for the young who were just starting out.

People that go to elite schools - Rosemary Choate, The Dalton School, St Ann's School in Brooklyn, so let me give you an example.. My nephew married a divorced woman who's first husband was a 'scion' of a family that is worth billions, his yearly income is about 7 million and he has about 500 million in a trust for him.. his 2 older kids with my nephews wife go to St Ann's, my grand neice was NOT accepted at St Ann's altho her older sibs go there, but my nephew "only" went to Penn State and works on Wall Street making only about 100k a year, his wife is a lawyer, his wife's ex hubster has a pedigree, a man who has inherited money that has been around since the mid 1800s - so there is caste system in this country.. it's alive and kicking.

https://pagesix.com/2017/01/22/this-is-where-kids-are-groomed-to-be-members-of-the-bohemian-elite/

We don't have a caste system. Dh never even had a bed growing up. He slept on mattress pulled out from under his mother's bed.

Now we have two houses, etc. He pulled himself up from his bootstraps, worked hard and made it happen. Rags to riches.... opposite of caste.

 

[whitewave]

I will give on the school issue-- we are "pushing 50" and yes, university was significantly cheaper than today.

Dh is half hispanic.

 

[arkieb1]

We do. You have to take into account that the definition of caste is not confined exclusively to the hereditary system which exists in India. We have a racial caste system with whites at the top, blacks at the bottom, and other people of color occupying the middle. There are some who say we are not a caste system but a class system. That's just, IMO, massaging language to make something seem less heinous, such as using "falsehood" instead of "lie". We have a gender caste system whereby heterosexuals rule and others are deemed "less than". We have a physical/mental disability caste system. One-third to one-half (different studies yield different figures) of our homeless population have physical or mental disabilities and lack access to treatment/care because we pulled funding and closed mental health facilities.

I was raised in a ghetto tenement infested with fleas, rats, roaches and your friendly neighborhood pedophile and I, like your husband, was fortunate enough to break out of the poverty cycle. Upward mobility (according to a plethora of studies) is become more difficult in this country for a variety of reasons. And even when one is fortunate enough to move upward, we still have a system of financial and social caste -- nouveau riche vs old money.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1881/12/caste-in-american-society/305936/
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/30/1588149/-America-s-Caste-System-and-Mass-Incarceration

I honestly don't get the point you are trying to make - that the US is screwed because it has a class or caste system? That is what is holding you back from being better governed, or from allowing people to escape poverty, or just generally a more pleasant country to live in? Most countries even the nice ones have class systems.....

Did you see the big scandal in the UK 2 days ago? One of Britain's top political leaders Henry Bolton left his wife and kids for a younger girlfriend (nothing new there) what was of interest to the press was the girlfriend (Jo Marney's) messages leaked to the media - a series of racist tweets where she said "Megan Markle's "seed" would "taint the Royal Family" and that the black actress's entry into the Royal Family would "pave the way for a black King." She further claimed she would "never have sex with a negro" because "black people are ugly."

My father is British and I can assure you the class system, the caste system or whatever you would like to call it and sentiments like those from a 25 year old white model and the old guy politician she was sleeping with are not only alive and well in the UK, this notion of class and where people fit into that hierarchy is MUCH stronger/more apparent in places like the UK, Germany and so on that it ever has been in the US, or that is my observation having family members from all 3 of those countries.

 

[Matata]

I honestly don't get the point you are trying to make -

You get an A+ then because I'm not trying to make a point. Just responding with random thoughts to what others have posted. Arkieb it doesn't matter to me that other countries who may be better governed or are on the list of happiest places have the same or worse fallibilities than we do. My focus are the problems we have here. I agree with you that the causes of our issues are deeply rooted and complex. I get irritated when people say we can't progress because (fill in the blank). I won't ever accept that. As MLK said "If you can’t fly then run, if you can’t run then walk, if you can’t walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward."

 

[arkieb1]

You get an A+ then because I'm not trying to make a point. Just responding with random thoughts to what others have posted. Arkieb it doesn't matter to me that other countries who may be better governed or are on the list of happiest places have the same or worse fallibilities than we do. My focus are the problems we have here. I agree with you that the causes of our issues are deeply rooted and complex. I get irritated when people say we can't progress because (fill in the blank). I won't ever accept that. As MLK said "If you can’t fly then run, if you can’t run then walk, if you can’t walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward."

Then why post an article about the way other countries are better governed than yours unless you are comparing and suggesting your country should somehow be more like them? If it's just a set of observations, the observations I am suggesting, making or arguing here (from someone on the outside looking in) is that you can't magically become like them (or if you like you can't progress as quickly as you would like, in the ways some of you might like I'm not saying you can't progress at all here just saying it's not going to happen quickly) because of your history and entrenched set of cultural values around that history. The things that make Americans who they are, are in fact the things that are stopping many of them from accepting or indeed wanting the changes you personally would like to see. Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing that is a good thing, I'm just arguing that you can't discard the past nearly 400 years of settlement that has brought you to where you are today.

That was the point I was making perhaps badly in my other posts too, as long as many members of your society will not let go of things like the entrench values and ideals in say your constitution you are unable to move forward in a whole range of areas that impact people in the US on a daily basis. Other countries don't have the same history so therefore they don't have the same set of core values, social and cultural values holding them back in the same ways.

I also make the observation that many countries that have had more racist core ideologies (Germany) much stronger class systems (the UK) and much much higher unemployment rates (New Zealand) have still managed to over come their own histories and change their set of social and cultural values and the ways they are governed in ways the US has not. The observations I personally make and find the most interesting is why that has occurred, yes we both agree those reasons are complex but I'm suggesting you have to look backwards be able to examine what you are holding onto from that history that isn't working and actually be wiling to change it order to move forward. A lot of Americans don't want that type of change, and at the moment that are resisting it so passionately they have voted in a Govt. hellbent on going backwards not forwards.

 

[Matata]

Then why post an article about the way other countries are better governed than yours unless you are comparing and suggesting your country should somehow be more like them?

For general interest purposes. Yanno like the Netflix Hidden Gems thread or the good book recommendation thread. If I had posted a historical piece on the rise of Nazism in Germany would you also question my motives on that? As far as your self-described "arguments" in this thread, I didn't respond to you because I agree with most of what you said which is why you spent a lot of time arguing with yourself

 

[arkieb1]

For general interest purposes. Yanno like the Netflix Hidden Gems thread or the good book recommendation thread. If I had posted a historical piece on the rise of Nazism in Germany would you also question my motives on that? As far as your self-described "arguments" in this thread, I didn't respond to you because I agree with most of what you said which is why you spent a lot of time arguing with yourself

Nope I wouldn't question a piece on Nazism, my father in law and all of his family were Nazis, how's that for a historical bombshell. I just get this underpinning gist that you want improvements to happen now and I'm stating many of them aren't about to because most Americans (not you of course) don't want that change to occur or seem to fear it. I think perhaps we might not necessarily agree on all the reasons why that is, that is all.