Artificial womb being developed for humans

[kenny]

Fascinating!!!
Looks like a baby factory from a Sci Fi movie.





Video in BBC link below reports that today's incubators are bad for the developing fetus' lungs because incubators are filled with air before the lungs are ready for air.

Half of the 75,000,000 extremely pre-term babies born annually die.
This promises to save many.

I gotta say, transferring the fetus immediately after birth to a bag full of fluid is kinda creepy.

The world's first artificial womb for humans

Doctors in the Netherlands say they are within 10 years of creating a 'second' womb for premature babies.

www.bbc.com

 

[AprilBaby]

It’s all getting a little too Frankenstein for me.

 

[kenny]

It’s all getting a little too Frankenstein for me.

I totally get that.
But if you are a woman who can't carry to term this may offer hope.

 

[distracts]

I would LOVE if my future children could be made entirely in an artificial womb, but I don't think that's coming within the next 3 years or so. I'd happily pay tons and tons of money for that service!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

as a prem baby way back in 1971 who was not expected to survive i find this interesting

 

[kenny]

I would LOVE if my future children could be made entirely in an artificial womb, but I don't think that's coming within the next 3 years or so. I'd happily pay tons and tons of money for that service!

I remember when my sister had a baby.
Though her bundle of joy was perfect, she described her pregnancy (which was completely routine and trouble free) as absolutely the worst, most miserable time of her entire life.
She looked me in the eye and said, "I will never do that again!!!!!!'

I have a friend who was devastated that pregnancy resulted in her losing her perfect figure ... her words.

IVF was also considered Frankensteinian when it was new, but look how many joyful parents have used it.
When the results are worth it, people adjust.

If there's a way to transfer the fertilized egg out of the woman's body early, mom and dad get their own baby without those 9 months of disruption.
Actually those pregnancies will probably start with IVF.

I'll bet this is going to be very expensive, and insurance companies will fight to deny it to women who need it to have a baby.
It will raise ethical questions.
Does everyone have a right to have a baby, and should medical insurance be forced to pay for it?
Will it be insured only as a medical necessity for the woman, or could a gay man or couple insist on insurance covering it?

Disclaimer: since women vary some must find pregnancy as a joyful and meaningful experience.

 

[anne_h]

Creepy, but also very interesting. I totally see the application for extreme premies. I hope it works out.

Anne

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

saving an already conceived baby's life is one thing, but there are way too many unloved, unwanted and uncared for children in the world who deserve loving homes and whos rights to a future are more justifiable than insurence paying for this IMHO

 

[kenny]

saving an already conceived baby's life is one thing, but there are way too many unloved, unwanted and uncared for children in the world who deserve loving homes and whos rights to a future are more justifiable than insurence paying for this IMHO

Very very valid point.

But, good bad right or wrong, TONS of people want to perpetuate their own DNA.

I see having a child as eternal life, well if all your kids have kids, and their kids have kids, etc. etc. etc. that is.
The egg is a living part of one body, and so is a sperm.

The idea the baby is a 100% separate person is simply an idea.
While revolutionary, you don't have to agree with that idea.

IMO each of us is half our mom and half our dad, physically.
We are a physical continuation of their lives, and so are our children, but only if they are physically our DNA.

While adopting is fantastic, every person does not want that.
I don't think the goodness of adoption should nix this new technology.

BTW, I made a mistake in my OP.
The video states 15,000,000 are born prematurely, not 75 million.
Still, half of 15,000,000 is 7,500,000.
That would be 15,000,000 broken hearts.
I think anything that might lower that 7,500,000 is wonderful news.

 

[lyra]

I often feel I'm too old to really weigh in on some of these issues. The technology should have strict ethics rules. Most of that type of tech does, but there are still individuals who operate outside the laws. Science fiction stuff notwithstanding. Anyway, I loved being pregnant twice. I do feel however, that if someone is having trouble and requires IVF, that several sessions should be covered. In Canada I believe you get one round (whatever that means?), and then you're on your own with the costs. So it becomes a case of those with money can, and those without, can't. I don't like that sort of 2 tier system.

 

[Matata]

I'm not in favor of technology that sustains, extends, or allows life under extraordinary circumstances until we have solved overpopulation and sustainability issues that are currently threatening our viability on this planet nor will I be in favor of such technology until health care, clean water, food, education and safe housing is affordable and available to everyone who currently lives.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I'm not in favor of technology that sustains, extends, or allows life under extraordinary circumstances until we have solved overpopulation and sustainability issues that are currently threatening our viability on this planet nor will I be in favor of such technology until health care, clean water, food, education and safe housing is affordable and available to everyone who currently lives.

while i would never want to denie anyone the right to be a mum or a dad, like how Kenny explained it,

but the world is overpopulated and long long ago i desided i wasn't going to add to that world problem
i do more than enough other things that some see as bad for the plannet

i watched this movie called Lion.
i don't spool the movie if someone might not have seen it but the Nicole Kidman character and hubby adopted 2 Indian boys who appeared to be orphans - the older son goes back to find his family
anyway what sticks in my mind is when he says to his Australian mum it was a pity she couldn't have children of her own because it had been a rough road with his brother and she says oh no - that wasn't it at all - we wanted you
(words to that effect)

 

[kenny]

I'm not in favor of technology that sustains, extends, or allows life under extraordinary circumstances until we have solved overpopulation and sustainability issues that are currently threatening our viability on this planet nor will I be in favor of such technology until health care, clean water, food, education and safe housing is affordable and available to everyone who currently lives.

I deeply admire people who choose to not reproduce to do their part to end their carbon footprint at death.
I've been bringing this up for years, but only very recently have I seen mainline media reporting on these earth heroes.

But, I'd never want to force that upon anyone.
The desire to reproduce is as natural and powerful, as a sex drive.
Maybe gays are morally superior in 2019 since gay sex can't create new carbon footprints.
Hmmmm. Just a thought.

(FWIW, there's a hole in my brain where wanting kids goes. But as you all know there are lots of holes in Kenny's brain )

Who knows, your child may grow up to cure cancer, or develop solutions to world hunger, climate change, etc.

 

[Matata]

I deeply admire people who choose to not reproduce to do their part to end their carbon footprint at death.
I've been bringing this up for years, but only very recently have I seen mainline media reporting on these earth heroes.

But, I'd never want to force that upon anyone.
The desire to reproduce is as natural and powerful, as a sex drive.

Who knows, your child may grow up to cure cancer, or develop solutions to world hunger, climate change, etc.

I'm admitting upfront that I'm a hard ass about the effect of tech in general and on the particular issue of reproduction. Full disclosure, I chose not to have children (1) due to 2 rapes and emotional abuse as a child -- I was terrified that I would abuse my children, and (2) because I came from an impoverished background, I believed that having children would be an obstacle to achieving my life goals.

I acknowledge that reproduction is a biological imperative ((https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/B...ychology.wikia.org/wiki/Biological_imperative). I acknowledge that I am a mutant regarding the biological imperative to reproduce.

That said, it has been a concern of mine since the age of 16 (thanks in part to Alvin Toffler's Future Shock) that humankind increasingly wishes go forgo what some see as the cruel dictates of nature. We don't want to accept much in the way of natural order. We want to avoid/forestall death, cure all disease, and encourage unchecked reproduction while ignoring the difficult issues and decisions that need to be made and resolved. Our planet has finite resources. If we cure all diseases and defeat/forestall death and allow everyone who can reproduce to do so, how do we sustain that in an environment with limited capacity.

I believe in the natural order. We are born, sometimes reproduce, and we die. Everything that takes us farther from that requires tough decisions when faced with finite space and finite resources. I believe in accepting the hand we are dealt -- can't have kids, find alternate ways to fulfill nurturing instincts; got a bad heart/liver whatever, accept it and be grateful for the time you have/had. Accept that death is an inevitable part of life. Accept that one may die before one wants. Accept that infertility is one's destiny. For those who are religious, accept that your god had determined your destiny for you. If you aren't religious, accept that nature, without rhyme/reason/fairness, has made it so.

I don't support organ transplants. I don't support IVF. I don't support extraordinary measures to keep premie babies alive nor do I support keeping elderly people alive through extraordinary measures when so many in between those extremes do not have access to affordable healthcare. As you say Kenny, perhaps my unborn child would have been the next "to cure cancer, or develop solutions to world hunger, climate change, etc." That doesn't mean that someone else's child won't do the same. To argue that is a logical fallacy and I know you appreciate logic and fact over emotional appeal.

I know I can't force my opinions about these issues on others nor do I want to. I recognize that my opinions may cause hurt to those whose children were born prematurely and those who have lost their elders and those who are on transplant lists or have loved ones who are. I empathize with the emotional turmoil and understand the toll those health issues have on individuals and families.

I am fortunate to live in a right to die state and have measures in place to ensure that I can avail myself of that when the time comes. If I know in advance that I will be incapacitated by a health issue that does not qualify for euthanasia in my state, I have measures in place to ensure I die with dignity on my own terms. There is a slight possibility that I may confront the issue of my mortality in the next few months. I'll know for sure at the completion of tests in January and I am prepared to walk the walk. If death is in my immediate future, I accept it and won't take any measures to forestall it beyond making it as painless as possible.

To quote Mr. Spock: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

[lyra]

Birth rates have been declining almost worldwide. Canada and the US have low birth rates. They are less than half what they were in the 50s, and decline every year.

I would be dead without medical intervention, but the first was I would have died in childbirth. It was truly a miracle also, that my daughter actually survived. The hospital was sure I was going to sue the doctor. Didn't even cross my mind because it took me 2 months or more to even recover emotionally. Of my 2 daughters, only 1 wants a baby. Even just 1 baby, but she's already been told it will be hard for her. So yeah, she will probably need IVF. I've seen people go bankrupt going down that route. She'll only be able to do the free round.