Help a newbie out with a blue sapphire purchase :)

[airplay355]

Hey guys,

I'm new to jewelry, the gem world and this forum so bare with me! I've been looking for a blue sapphire for an engagement ring for a few weeks now and I just bought this one http://www.litnon.com/viewgem.php?gemid=8504&id=39645 I can't find the page with the details of the stone anymore because it was removed when I bought the stone but it's 8 x 6 x 5, slight inclusions, and was $215 + $11 shipping. I know it's not the most expensive sapphire out there but price is a pretty big concern for me.

What I'm most worried about is buying a crappy stone and overpaying. This stone looks great to me even though it's not the optimal blue color but I want to know what you guys think. I've gone through a few threads and I've noticed everyone here can instantly find flaws and other things to look for that I never would have noticed on my own. Anyone think I made a terrible decision?

Thanks for your help! If you have any other advice for me I'd gladly listen!

Ryan

 

[GregS]

It's showing quite a bit of extinction in the photos. Are you ok with that? The stone is likely going to be dark indoors. Although considering the size to price ratio I think you did good. Top right http://www.spectralgems.net/A-corundum.html, if that doesn't do it for it might be worth contacting Mr. Dery. He is very helpful.

 

[airplay355]

Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure what extinction is. Could you explain it and maybe reference an area of the stone so I know what to look for?

She said she wanted a darker stone, so that's why I chose the color. I guess I'll have to see how dark it looks indoors. I don't want it to look like a lump of coal if there isn't an LED shinning on it

 

[GregS]

Read this, it covers extinction and other important factors to consider when buying gemstones.https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/

 

[airplay355]

So those black areas are always black? I thought that was just a function of how light was hitting the stone.

 

[minousbijoux]

First off, congratulations - its a pretty exciting time for you.

Secondly, don't worry about it because you've chosen a great, patient and understanding vendor to work with; if its too dark IRL then he'll have no problem with you sending it back and finding another one. He's good to work with that way.

Finally about extinction - it is typically caused by the angle of the cut and the fact that instead of bouncing back out,visible to the eye, the light bounces elsewhere, so doesn't refract the light to us and show color or flash. If its really extinction, and not dead spots in the stone (like zoning, or inclusions), then the areas of extinction will move around depending on the angle of the light. That is to say that different parts of the stone will appear bluest as you move it around. You'll need to see it in hand to see how the light affects it. So the answer is if its true extinction, then those dark spots will not always remain dark, but other parts of the stone might become darker or extinct as those other areas are hit with light, if that makes sense.

 

[chrono]

I think what I'm seeing is also extinction and possibly some colour zoning, which might be why it is priced lower. How does it look to you? Are the pictures accurate?
http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=8504

ETA
I agree with LD that for how little you paid, it's really a well priced stone. Yes, you aren't going to get top colour or perfection but it could be a good deal. The other important thing is to view the stone under different lighting, particularly indoor lighting, because some sapphires turn inky gray and some sapphires turn violetish. No need for me to explain which one is more desired, right?

 

[LD]

For the price you've done very well. It looks like a pretty and lively gemstone. As Minou has said, you've picked a good vendor so I would say not to worry and see what you think when it arrives. Make sure you assess it in ALL lights and take a few days to do so. Usually our gut instinct is right (we either fall in love with it or we don't) but occasionally there's a stone that can be a slow love (or "I think I'm going to send it back but am not sure") and it's worth taking those few extra days to make sure you get to the right decision.

Don't worry about the extinction at this point. You're not likely to get a 2ct stone for under $300 that is flawless. The majority of the stone looks to be be bright and blue.

 

[airplay355]

Thanks for all the help! I'm really glad you guys think I did well! The stone was originally listed for $390 and was on sale. I wouldn't have paid $390 for it, but $215 was hard to pass up, especially because it was exactly what I was looking for. I don't actually have the stone in hand yet, I posted here as soon as I ordered it. Then I had an "oh crap, I should have asked first!" moment and made a new thread. When I get the stone I'll update this thread with some of my own pictures in different light. I have access to microscopes as well so I'll see if I can find anything interesting inside the stone. And ask if it's a keeper or not of course

I did notice the lighter areas in the center, and I think that's the color zoning you're referring to, but I figured for such a cheap stone I would just have to accept some "unique" features. I also thought it could be because the middle of the stone is between the fingers in the picture, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

When it comes to looking at it in different light...should I just like the color it is in each light or am I just trying to make sure it doesn't turn black or grey indoors? Do all stones change based on what light they are in or only the cheaper ones?

 

[airplay355]

Whoooops, I see that I want violet indoors and not inky grey. Thanks again!

 

[ChrisA222]

Airplay,

I don't want to say much, because everyone is different. I bought that stone (and returned it). There is a pretty sizeable inclusion in the middle of the stone, which makes it look pretty 'dead' in the middle. That being said, not everyone reacts the same way about inclusions.

I sent the gem to Jerry Newman, a reputable gemcutter, and he said there was no way to improve the brilliance of the middle of the stone due to the inclusion. Im sorry....

You can read all about my experience with this exact stone here:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-know-anything-about-linton-gemline-inc.176435/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-know-anything-about-linton-gemline-inc.176435/[/URL]

If I can be of any furthur help, just ask.

 

[ChrisA222]

Airplay,

I know I am replying to my own post but there is so much additional drama in that thread, about how Gemline was handing the return issue, and so on..that I figure I will summarize here:

There is a large, discoid inclusion in the center of that stone, causing the middle to look blurry, out of focus, and "dead" for lack of better words. When I bought the stone, I knew it was there...but I didnt know the reason at the time. I was hoping that a recut by a well-respected gemstone cutter would be able to give the stone some brilliance...as I didnt know it was the inclusion (thought it was the cut) that was causing the weird optics.

The cutter reported the inclusion to me, and said the only way to get rid of the inclusion would be to lose about 50% of that stone...which, would not be a good option.

Also, there is a "natural" in the pavillion of that stone. A natural is like a divot..or a little chunk missing. Its a product of the natural crystal that the cutter leaves there so he can get his desired shape/size of the gem. Chrono, did I explain that right? IT seems back in June I didnt know what a natural was. I re read that thread, and I have learned SO much in the last four months...I feel like Im a different person as far as gems go...wow..lol anyways...

Maybe the poor optics will not bother you...I admit to being picky....here are my pics of the stone

 

[chrono]

Ah, I remember this sapphire now. It was a bit fuzzy in the centre. Well, since it is on its way to the OP, lets see if he can see it or if he's bothered by it.

 

[ChrisA222]

Chrono, I did the right thing by bringing this up, right? Part of me thinks I should not have influenced him....but, I had the stone evaluated by a cutter, so In case he ever thought he would have the stone recut to fix it...I felt I had to go there...

OP, Ill repeat, I am picky, and not everyone is bothered by things that I am bothered by. The stone does have nice dark blue color..

 

[chrono]

Everyone is free to voice their opinion. You felt that you should caution the OP on a potential issue and I think that's perfectly fine. Not every stone is great but given the price, it is up to the OP to decide if this inclusion is a dealbreaker.

 

[airplay355]

Thanks for the help Chris! I definitely see what you're talking about. I'm not ready to give up on the stone just yet though. Since my girlfriend wants a darker stone (she liked the crappy blackish sapphires in the mall jewelry stores) I think I might be able to live with it, especially because the picture you posted with the center covered prevents the inclusion from being seen. She doesn't like the bright cornflower blue sapphires (how lucky is that?) as much as the darker ones so I think I might be safe.

Plus, it was $215. I'm willing to sacrifice a little quality because I know she will like the color and the size. Later on I can upgrade to an amazing stone. I can't justify spending thousands on a ring when I'm 25. If she decides she wants a flawless stone then I think she should choose a lab created one.

I'm going to wait until it arrives before I decide, especially because I can return it. I have access to microscopes so I'll try to get some detailed pictures of what's wrong with it and post them here. I do appreciate you saying something! The pictures online seem slightly deceptive as none of them show the flaws but maybe they won't be so bad. We'll see...

 

[ChrisA222]

Cool!

Its weird, because you really can't "see" the inclusion. It just messes with the optics of the stone, so it looks "blurry"...at least it did for me. You will know exactly what I mean when you see the stone..and then decide if its a deal breaker or not.

I was pretty annoyed with the vendor at first, for not really describing the flaws or showing them in pics...but, once I got in touch with them on the return, they were great. They granted me an extension on the return period (so I could have my cutter look at it), and once it was received I got a full refund.

I've gone back to the vendor and purchased a different stone (an anthill garnet) with no problems at all. So, I will say that if you decide the stones not right for you, there are no worries---you will get a refund. But, if your girl likes the crappy mall-stones, this should look really nice

I am picky

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I would think the blurriness to be preferable to staring at an inclusion,...unless its a really cool inclusion! (maybe I'm unique in this latter sentiment). I think all might not be lost for OP's purposes. As far as a natural 2 carat true blue sapphire for under 500 dollars go, this looks like by far the best one I've ever seen. It seems definitely worth the purchase and you can decided whether its worth keeping. I hope it is!

 

[airplay355]

I'm curious...it's a heated stone. Shouldn't the heating have gotten rid of something like this?

 

[airplay355]

It was supposed to come today and it didn't Here's hoping for tomorrow!

 

[Starzin]

I'm interested to see what you find under the microscope. Good luck with this stone.

 

[airplay355]

It finally came! Everything ChrisA said was true. There's a natural on the side that is deep enough to see from the top of the stone and there's a strange fuzziness in the center. It has the look of a chip in a windshield, without actually being a chip. To see these things though you have to be within 1ft of the stone and lighting has to be perfect. The stone is dark enough to hide the imperfections.

Now to the good parts. The size is a size/price are a big +. I'll be hard pressed to get a 2ct sapphire for the same price...hell I'd have trouble finding a 1ct sapphire for that price. The majority of the stone is very pretty. It's sometimes purpleish, sometimes blue in spots, sometimes royal blue. I rather like that it changes colors and I think it's the color she will want.

The fact that this stone has some personality let's you know it's real. I'm leaning towards keeping it. My only hesitation is knowing those imperfections are there (even if I can't always see them) and knowing there are nicer stones out there that I could have bought , even if they are more expensive.

I'm going to live with it for a couple days, check it out under the scope on Monday and post some pictures for you guys. Then I guess I'll make a final decision

 

[ChrisA222]

Good luck, airplay! Thanks for keeping us updated...

I wasn't sure what you would think...as I am very picky about brilliance, optics, and cutting..more so than I am about color (which is probably the opposite of many on this board). So if the color grabs you and you aren't bothered by the center of the stone, than by all means, its a keeper!

Just wanted to give you the heads up, because I did have the gemstone sent to a cutter to see if it can be fixed/improved, and it cannot. So you definately have to accept it for what it is.

I did find a stone that I liked better than that one, which is available now similar to the price you paid for that stone. It is smaller, but it has much better optics in my opinion. I only know this because I am very familiar with the seller and his description of "VS/Eyeclean" means to me, no weird optics. Is this a premium stone? No...but, it has nice dark blue color, good clarity, and the cut looks OK.

This stone is 1.25ct, and 7x5 calibrated oval. To ME, it is the better stone, smaller, but with better optics and good color and better clarity. This is on eBay, the vendor is Jeffdvs101. He may have similar, better stones too for your budget, may be worth checking.

I do see a little zoning...but, not enough to bother me and I'd deal with this before I'd deal with fuzzyness in the center of the stone you have.

Good luck!

Video of the stone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJuMIi6jM50&feature=player_embedded

 

[minousbijoux]

You know what I love about this? I feel as if this stone is meaningful to you. It feels right to you, and is admittedly your starter stone. I love the idea of couples maturing together and as they experience life, they allow themselves some special things along the way. If this is the stone you can afford, do it! And some day, if you both want, and it works for you, you can always get an even better stone at a deal of a price - you have a lifetime to look for it!

Airplay, I love your attitude! I think you're girlfriend is a lucky woman!

 

[Starzin]

You know what I love about this? I feel as if this stone is meaningful to you. It feels right to you, and is admittedly your starter stone. I love the idea of couples maturing together and as they experience life, they allow themselves some special things along the way. If this is the stone you can afford, do it! And some day, if you both want, and it works for you, you can always get an even better stone at a deal of a price - you have a lifetime to look for it!

Airplay, I love your attitude! I think you're girlfriend is a lucky woman!

+1

I'm going to live with it for a couple days, check it out under the scope on Monday and post some pictures for you guys. Then I guess I'll make a final decision

Yes please...looking forward to them and your thoughts when you've lived with it for a couple of days

 

[airplay355]

Thanks for the kind words guys!!

Unfortunately, I took the stone outside in bright sunlight and the inclusion became very noticeable. I also noticed two small nicks on the top face of the stone similar to the natural on the side. I've decided that the color zoning, nicks on the top and inclusion are just too much for me. They become so obvious in natural light that anyone could notice them and I want her to be able to show her ring off proudly. Don't worry, I'll still take pictures on Monday and post them here, as I'm sure this stone will show up for sale again. I do wish it was a little more accurately photographed on the website; oh well

The good news is, this is not all I can afford. I went with a cheap stone at first because it's my first gemstone and if a $215 stone makes me happy then I see no reason to buy one that's $2000. I'd also prefer to spend as little money as I need to get what I want but I do want what I want. Any money I save on the ring is just more money we can spend on other things together but I just can't bring myself to present this to her when so much is obviously wrong with it and when I have the means to do better.

I think I'm going to have to bump up my price to around $1k (though I'll certainly look at stones that are less). I've been looking around online and anything in the sub 500 range is small, included, poorly colored or some combination of the three. It seems I can get something for around that price.

Since I'm sending it back, I decided to show it to her. We've been shopping together so I'm allowed to show her things as long as it's not the actual stone I'll be using. She noticed the nicks on top and thought I was displeased with those. When I tried to show her the inclusion, she couldn't see it. Even though we both like the color, we agreed it should be returned, especially since she's seen it now.

I'm sad it wasn't as nice as I had hoped but now I can go back to hunting...and hunting for gems has become quite fun!

I'm thinking about the 15th stone in the center here http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html#thumb.. I'm also going to speak with Roger Dery again to see what he can come up with. Apparently he has a lot of stones that are not listed online.

 

[chrono]

Thank you for the review and I'm very curious to see the pictures on Monday. Interesting that Litnon was able to disguise the flaws incredibly well.

Are you referring to Gemfix 1048? The sapphire looks rather hazy.

 

[airplay355]

Sorry, I didn't see they had numbers I could refer to. I'm referring to 979.

 

[sxn675]

I don't know how set you are on sapphire v spinel, but there's a blue spinel at the bottom of the gemfix spinel page that could be promising.

 

[airplay355]

She wants to be able to wear it every day. I originally wanted Tanzanite but heard that would not hold up well to ever day wear and tear.

How will Spinel fair?