Your opinions on my ER Stone options. Thanks!

[GoodSoul]

Hi,

I''ve been reading PS for months and even went out to get an Idealscope. My FI and I have been looking for a right engagement stone for awhile. People have called me anal and looking for a needle in the haystack... but we just wish to find something that we both love. I am very color sensitive while he needs a mind clean stone. We have agreed on a RB, E/VS2 EXCELLENT/IDEAL cut stone. Let me know what you think of both stones and if the price sounds right. Thanks in advance!

Option A:
GIA Report Date: June 14, 2007
Measurements: 6.90 - 6.94 x 4.29 mm
Carat: 1.26
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None

Depth % : 62%
Table % : 58%
Crown angle: 35.0
Pavilion angle: 40.8
HCA score: 1.8
* Light Return: Very Good
* Fire: Excellent
* Scintillation : Excellent
* Spread: Very Good
Price: $11,695

My observations:
Idealscope: There is a little light leakage the middle and is it due to the too deep cut?
H&A Scope: Very nice H&A shapes.
This has lots of fire and sparkles great!

I''ll post Option B later. Here''s the GIA Reference diagram for this Option A:

 

[GoodSoul]

Option B:
GIA Report Date: Aug 25, 2008
Measurements: 7.30 - 67.32 x 4.36 mm
Carat: 1.42
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellen
Fluorescence: MEDIUM BLUE
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown

Depth % : 59.6%
Table % : 59%
Crown angle: 34.0
Pavilion angle: 40.6
HCA score: 0.9
* Light Return: Excellent
* Fire: Excellent
* Scintillation : Excellent
* Spread: Excellent
Price: $14,497

My observations:
Idealscope: This is better than the 1.26 and it''s nice.
H&A Scope: Nice H&A shapes but has split cleft at the hearts.
Thoughts: This looks more white but has less fire than the 1.26 stone. Do you think if it''s the cloud that affects the fire and made it less sparkly? It does not look milky when I brought it out to the sun. I am not sure if we can get over the Medium Blue Fluor.

I know it boils down to personal preference on more brilliance vs fire.. but am hoping for your opinions if either or both stones are great buy and it''s just down to personal preference. What''s your thoughts and preference?

Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

Either could be a nice diamond, are they advertised as hearts and arrows diamonds? If not then you may be concerned about the heart clefts without cause really.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/24/2008 5:37:58 PM
Author: GoodSoul
Option B:
GIA Report Date: Aug 25, 2008
Measurements: 7.30 - 67.32 x 4.36 mm
Carat: 1.42
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellen
Fluorescence: MEDIUM BLUE
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown

Depth % : 59.6%
Table % : 59%
Crown angle: 34.0
Pavilion angle: 40.6
HCA score: 0.9
* Light Return: Excellent
* Fire: Excellent
* Scintillation : Excellent
* Spread: Excellent
Price: $14,497

My observations:
Idealscope: This is better than the 1.26 and it's nice.
H&A Scope: Nice H&A shapes but has split cleft at the hearts.
Thoughts: This looks more white but has less fire than the 1.26 stone. Do you think if it's the cloud that affects the fire and made it less sparkly? It does not look milky when I brought it out to the sun. I am not sure if we can get over the Medium Blue Fluor.

I know it boils down to personal preference on more brilliance vs fire.. but am hoping for your opinions if either or both stones are great buy and it's just down to personal preference. What's your thoughts and preference?

Thanks!

Hi GS,

No, the lack of fire/sparkle is due to the crown and pavilion angles (they drive the diamonds performance). They are cut on the slightly shallow side, (and GIA rounds numbers, so it could be more than the numbers say), and along with the slightly larger table, it will throw less fire/sparkle.

Do you notice any dark areas on the first in normal lighting? There can be slight leakage in an IS pic, that won't show to the natural eye. It's not too deep. If you put it in natural light, and it seems bright, and firey, and sparkles well, I'd recommend that one.

 

[GoodSoul]

Thanks for your responses.

Lorelei: The lady did tell me that it''s H&A. After reading the Split Cleft posts that John directed me to, I am ok now with the split cleft thingy as long as the overall cut is beautiful. Good to know you think that either could be good. Thanks.

Ellen: Do you mean that you prefer the 1.26 stone? I didn''t notice the dark areas in the 1.26 stone though. The 1.42 stone looks as sparkly as the other one when in the sun. When it''s under the shop lightings, it''s just a tad less firey/sparkly than the other. I do think it''s due to the table and shallow cut. I''m going back to the place with FI this Sat and will definitely look out for the dark areas Thanks.


Do you think the prices are reasonable to go with? Is there anything else I should ask the shop? These are from Geoffrey''s (San Carlos, CA). Some PSers seemed to have good reviews on them. What do you guys think of them in terms of setting? Not sure if I should set there or get it through Leon? Hmmm... decisions decisions decisions...

Any thoughts/feedback are welcome!! Thanks!!

P/S: I really enjoyed this forum as you guys are so nice and supportive of each other!! The posts are all so generous and insightful. I definitely have benefited alot. Thanks folks!

 

[Ellen]

GS, yes, I was recommending the 1.26.


Please don''t do comparisons in the direct sunlight, as it will make almost anything sparkle.

Compare under shade, in bright diffused light, various indoor lighting, and even in a dark area, like under the counter or cupped in your hands. See which one perfoms better overall.

As for the price, doing a search they are running roughly 10,600 to 10,900. But these are online prices, so we would expect a higher price from a retail store. They can pretty much charge whatever they want, you have to decide what you think is fair.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[GoodSoul]

Ellen, thanks for your post! I will definitely remember that for my Sat''s visit.

I''m throwing in Option 3 here. This is from GOG but not in their current stock. They have to bring in from one of their "most reliable sources" in Belgium. Here''s what GOG said: "it looks like all of the diamonds we have in our Round H&A inventory. We get from this supplier all the time so we know what we are getting already."

Option 3:
GIA Report Date: August 22, 2008
Measurements: 7.13 - 7.14 x 4.39 mm
Carat: 1.35
Color: D

Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: Additional Pinpoints are not shown

Depth % : 61.5%
Table % : 56%
Crown angle: 34.0
Pavilion angle: 41.0
HCA score: 1.3
* Light Return: Excellent
* Fire: Very Good
* Scintillation : Very Good
* Spread: Very Good
Wire Price: $14,500

I''ve to put down a non-refundable deposit before they bring in the stone and if I purchase it, it''ll be applied to the purchase price. I know I can get a bigger stone by going down a few notches on color.. but I love the icy white!!

BTW, why is this GOG 1.36 F/VS2 more expensive than Option 3? Is it because this F color is a Tolkowsky cut? Hmmm.. definitely have to ask Sarah tomorrow.

Any thoughts? Should I just chance it and bring the stone in first?? Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

The D looks great!

 

[honey22]

If the F VS2 is more expensive, it''s likely it''s a better cut. Have Jon eyeball them both and ask for his opinion on the better stone. The F will still face up superwhite, but I am a sucker for the icy white of a D stone no doubt. However, when faced with the choice, I will take the better cut anyday. Ask GOG for their choice, they will tell you the truth.

 

[stone-cold11]

GS, not sure why it could be that the F stone is more ex. Is it also H&A? Or is it just that GOG has yet to run it through their repertoire of tests so not much more incur cost on this stone? All speculation, you should ask them.

 

[Ellen]

From the looks of it (specs), my guess is that the one they can call in is an Isee2, which are extremely well cut stones. Very tight. Looks great so far, and I would imagine everything else would look great. (H&A, etc.) Why the F is more is a good question. Let us know what they say.

I can pretty much gaurantee that the GOG stone would be a better buy.

 

[GoodSoul]

Lorelei: That's what I thought too on the D and couldn't wait to post it here for all the experts to comment (hopefully confirm it too). Thanks!

Honey22: I have asked Sarah on the price discrepancy and will see what she says. If need be, I will request if Jon can provide some insights. Thanks!

Stone-cold11: Sarah from GOG said that the D is a H&A as well. Thanks!

Ellen: It'll make my day if it's an Isee2 stone! I've asked Sarah on this as well as the price discrepancy. Will report back once I hear back from her. Thanks!

I'm really excited on this one!!

 

[GoodSoul]

Date: 9/26/2008 8:29:54 AM
Author: Ellen
From the looks of it (specs), my guess is that the one they can call in is an Isee2, which are extremely well cut stones. Very tight. Looks great so far, and I would imagine everything else would look great. (H&A, etc.) Why the F is more is a good question. Let us know what they say.

Wow.. you are so right!!! Sarah (GOG) had just confirmed that it''s an Isee2 stone!!! Yippee!!

This 1.35 D/VS2 is an Isee2 stone and 1.39 F/VS2 is a Tolkowsky cut. I asked her about the price difference and her answer was "The F VS2 happened to cost us more than the D VS2. Many factors can contribute to this." Could Tolkowsky be more expensive than Isee2 stone and if so, on what basis? Just curious.. as I''m still prefer the icy white D since Isee2 stone is pretty good base on what I read so far!!

When I compare the GIA reports, the D has more "feathers" than the F, so this may be one of the reasons. Here''s the D'' GIA plot.

Oh well, won''t know the difference till we get the D stone in and let GOG compare in person!! Will report back once the stone is in!! Yay!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/26/2008 4:21:19 PM
Author: GoodSoul

Date: 9/26/2008 8:29:54 AM
Author: Ellen
From the looks of it (specs), my guess is that the one they can call in is an Isee2, which are extremely well cut stones. Very tight. Looks great so far, and I would imagine everything else would look great. (H&A, etc.) Why the F is more is a good question. Let us know what they say.

Wow.. you are so right!!! Sarah (GOG) had just confirmed that it''s an Isee2 stone!!! Yippee!!

This 1.35 D/VS2 is an Isee2 stone and 1.39 F/VS2 is a Tolkowsky cut. I asked her about the price difference and her answer was ''The F VS2 happened to cost us more than the D VS2. Many factors can contribute to this.'' Could Tolkowsky be more expensive than Isee2 stone and if so, on what basis? Just curious.. as I''m still prefer the icy white D since Isee2 stone is pretty good base on what I read so far!!

When I compare the GIA reports, the D has more ''feathers'' than the F, so this may be one of the reasons. Here''s the D'' GIA plot.

Oh well, won''t know the difference till we get the D stone in and let GOG compare in person!! Will report back once the stone is in!! Yay!!

Could be, but I couldn''t say why that would be exactly. Maybe they just feel their brand name is worth more, though in reality it isn''t.

Yay on the Isee2, I can tell you right now it''s a beauty.

Keep us informed!

 

[Lorelei]

 

[GoodSoul]

Hi,

Just want to report back that the 1.35 D/VS2 Isee2 stone is no longer available as confirmed by GOG.
Now I am back to the drawing board.

Will stay patient and hopefully I cross path with the ONE (other than my FI) soon!

Thanks for the all the great advice!

 

[honey22]

Wow - I am pleasantly suprised, I would have thought it wouldn''t be cut as well - goes to show it''s always good to ask the question.

I am sorry you missed out on it though, have you let them know you are seriously looking for a stone - they may be able to contact you when new stock arrives etc.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/1/2008 10:47:52 PM
Author: GoodSoul
Hi,

Just want to report back that the 1.35 D/VS2 Isee2 stone is no longer available as confirmed by GOG.
Now I am back to the drawing board.

Will stay patient and hopefully I cross path with the ONE (other than my FI) soon!

Thanks for the all the great advice!

Well shoot!

Definitely let them know what you want, if you haven''t, they have a few suppliers they can pull from. And keep us informed!

 

[GoodSoul]

Thanks Honey22 and Ellen for your responses.

I was quite bummed out when I realized that it''s gone. I don''t know what''s Isee2 until Ellen brought up and did some reading and saw Ellen''s stone as well as some other Isee2 owners'' stuff. I was very impressed was totally looking forward to it!

Ellen/Honey22, Both of your rings are beautiful!!!

I did tell GOG and WF what we are looking for (and are serious about it) but unfortunately none of them has something in that range for now. I''m color sensitive and my FI needs a mind clean stone... and that makes us a very picky duo Thank goodness, they are both VERY patient with us!

I''m just patiently waiting.. for WF''s new ACA stock / GOG suppliers'' new stock (H&A/Tolk/Isee2) to come. Fingers crossed!

Will report back.

Thanks again.

 

[Ellen]

Aw, thank you GS! And I know the right stone for you will come along soon, just be patient.

 

[GoodSoul]

Hello again!

As there''s no stone from GOG and WF that matches my specs at the moment, I''ve contacted ERD and Gary found the below stone for me:

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.01 - 7.06 x 4.32 mm
Carat: 1.30
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: Additional Clouds not shown

Depth % : 61.4%
Table % : 57%
Crown angle: 34.5
Pavilion angle: 40.8
LGF%: 80%
HCA score: 1.3
* Light Return: Excellent
* Fire: Excellent
* Scintillation : Excellent
* Spread: Very Good

Appreciate your advice on this option. Thanks!

Here''s the Idealscope picture:

 

[GoodSoul]

Here''s a actual stone pic. I asked Gary of ERD if this is a H&A and his answer was "All ideal cut and excellent cut diamonds exhibit “hearts and arrows” when viewed through the various devises. Yes, I assure you, it is a beautiful, excellent cut stone."

He does not has access to GEMEX Brilliant Scope. Please let me know if this could be as nice as the ACA or GOG''s H&As.

Also, I feel bad for contacting 3 vendors at the same time. Should I just focus on one vendor and wait patiently?

Thanks again.

 

[honey22]

Thanks for the kind words - I have soft spot for my ring I must admit

The IS on the last stone looks great and the numbers all check out good too. I say it''s a winner

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 10/4/2008 2:09:45 AM
Author: GoodSoul
Here's a actual stone pic. I asked Gary of ERD if this is a H&A and his answer was 'All ideal cut and excellent cut diamonds exhibit “hearts and arrows” when viewed through the various devises. Yes, I assure you, it is a beautiful, excellent cut stone.'

From the numbers and IS, it looks like a great stone but I disagree with Gary of ERD's statement that all ideal cuts will exhibit H&A pattern though. Else all AGS0 cuts can be labeled as H&A as AGS0 will get ding with sym imperfection. Physical symmetry does not automatically equate to optical symmetry. Only with perfectly form H&A patterns can you call it optically symm wrt. the H&A patterns.

The IS shows great pic of the arrows, but it is more difficult to have a good hearts formation as that requires 6 different facets to perform together to get that pattern.

EDT:
Also, hearts pattern are difficult to view once it is mounted on a ring anyway, so you might want to take that into consideration in you choice... Hope that won't confuse you more.

So if you are dead set for a H&A, maybe ask him for a hearts pic of that diamond? If not, this looks like a very good diamond.

 

[Ellen]

I agree with what Stone said.

It does have great specs/IS. I would be hesitant to comment on the pic, it's not really a fair assessment, you need to see it in real life. But by all accounts it certainly has a lot of potential to be a beautiful stone.

Would just an excellent cut stone be enough, or are you needing a known/true H&A stone? If the latter, I too would ask for a heart pic.

 

[GoodSoul]

Honey22: Thanks for confirming that the IS looks good.

Stone-cold11: Thanks for your clarification. I did find Gary''s H&A comment a little strange. Optical symmetry is important to us too and have asked for a heart picture.

Ellen: Thanks for your response. I am looking for a H&A and have asked him for a heart picture.

Other than bringing in the diamond to see in person, is there anything I should ask from ERD to give me the piece of mind on this Diamond (other than the heart picture)? Do you know if ERD does diamond video? Thanks!

 

[Ellen]

I think at this point, if you can get a heart pic that satisfies you, I would just bring it home and maybe have an independant appraiser look at it. It''s got good specs and a great IS pic so we know the light return is good also. Looks great so far.

Let us know what you hear back.

 

[GoodSoul]

Thanks Ellen for your advise as that''s pretty much what I thought as well.

Unfortunately, here''s the heart picture. Base on what I''ve read on H&A image so far (and I''m ok with cleft heart now after reading the thread referred to by John), but this heart picture doesn''t look good right?

Appreciate any input. Thanks!

 

[stone-cold11]

yap, not really a well formed heart. Heart clefts are too deep, non-symmetrical and defective chevrons.

 

[stone-cold11]

There is one ACA F VS2 avaliable. 1.27c maybe you should check it out?
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1467016.htm#