Your help needed!

[peekay]

Hi everyone, found this site at the advice of the members over at fatwallet.com. Amazing amount of information here.

I need help purchasing an engagement ring. After lurking for a few weeks here, I''ve seen several diamonds from the featured vendors here that interest me.

I went down to Robbins Bros to get a sense of the real life differences between the 4 C''s. They had a ring which looks great to me and I''d like some feedback from the rest of ya''ll.

AIG graded
2.64 ct Round
8.87 x 8.83 x 5.45mm
Depth 61.60%
Table 56.90%
Girdle Thin - Medium faceted
Cutlet - none
Finish - VG
Symmetry VG
Clarity SI-2
Color Grade K
Moderate blue flourescence

Echo Cut with the extra facets

More or less eye clean. Out of the 5 or so SI-2 and SI-1''s and one VS-2 I saw (most graded by GIA), this was probably the cleanest. It was slightly more flawed than a VS2 I saw without aid, and only when looking REALLY CLOSELY. Only under a 10x scope was I able to ascertain a noticeable difference between the VS2 and this rock.

I entered the numbers on Holloway Cut Adviser and it came out
Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.1 - Excellent
within TIC range

I''m not an expert, but that cut seems pretty good?

The color is a K. But try as I might, I can barely see any difference, if at all between this and an I. The sales lady says it''s bc of the Echo cut. Is she right?

They have it listed for $18,995. I''m guessing I can get it down to $16k or so without their warranty.

I normally never buy retail bc it generally is not a great deal (esp with the 8.25% tax). But what do you all think?

Thanks in advance!

 

[JulieN]

HCA doesn''t work for anything other than a standard round brilliant.

 

[MWG]

Date: 5/24/2007 5:42:43 PM
Author:peekay
Hi everyone, found this site at the advice of the members over at fatwallet.com. Amazing amount of information here.

I need help purchasing an engagement ring. After lurking for a few weeks here, I''ve seen several diamonds from the featured vendors here that interest me.

I went down to Robbins Bros to get a sense of the real life differences between the 4 C''s. They had a ring which looks great to me and I''d like some feedback from the rest of ya''ll.

AIG graded
2.64 ct Round
8.87 x 8.83 x 5.45mm
Depth 61.60%
Table 56.90%
Girdle Thin - Medium faceted
Cutlet - none
Finish - VG
Symmetry VG
Clarity SI-2
Color Grade K
Moderate blue flourescence

Echo Cut with the extra facets

More or less eye clean. Out of the 5 or so SI-2 and SI-1''s and one VS-2 I saw (most graded by GIA), this was probably the cleanest. It was slightly more flawed than a VS2 I saw without aid, and only when looking REALLY CLOSELY. Only under a 10x scope was I able to ascertain a noticeable difference between the VS2 and this rock.

I entered the numbers on Holloway Cut Adviser and it came out
Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.1 - Excellent
within TIC range

I''m not an expert, but that cut seems pretty good?

The color is a K. But try as I might, I can barely see any difference, if at all between this and an I. The sales lady says it''s bc of the Echo cut. Is she right?

They have it listed for $18,995. I''m guessing I can get it down to $16k or so without their warranty.

I normally never buy retail bc it generally is not a great deal (esp with the 8.25% tax). But what do you all think?

Thanks in advance!

The phrase "more or less eye clean" concerns me for $19000 without tax. Without their warranty? What is there warranty?

And the tax thing makes it that much more expensive. I would not pay that much for a diamond that was not completely eye clean.

Take a look at these:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-150433.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-68015.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-67465.htm

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131&item=898612

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131&item=866268

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3049/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2645/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3104/

Good Luck
MWG

 

[jaz464]

I don''t know who AIG are. I prefer to stick with GIA or AGS.

 

[peekay]

when you mean standard round brilliant, do you mean it cannot be used to grade an echo cut? the echo is just the trade name for the extra facets Robbins Bros puts on their diamoonds. It is a round brilliant with extra facets. Does that change your analysis? Thanks!

 

[peekay]

thank you MWG. Those links are great, but I prefer to stay under $20k. When I mean "more or less eye clean", I mean I have to try pretty darn hard to see the inclusions and I have good near vision since I''m still under 30 yrs old. The inclusions are really faint, about 2 faint white crystals. After going to the store, I concluded that the only thing I can really see are major inclusions, size, and overall brilliance. H and I color were good enough for me. In light of that, would you think this would be an ok deal at $16k?

 

[Independent Gal]

Hi,

Have you talked to your girlfriend about which ''c''s are most important to her? She might well want a smaller diamond with better colour or clarity. Or she might not, but it would be best to find out first, if you''re considerign an included diamond with ''K'' colour! A K is pretty warm, and while you might not be able to tell that much difference between an ''I'' and a ''K'', she might! And particularly beside her friends'' higher coloured stones. Some people like warmth in a diamond. There''s nothing wrong with that. And some people are much more concerned with size than colour. But you should make sure you have the gist of what''s most important to your girl before getting a ''K'' with visible inclusions!

That said, for some girls, it''s the size that counts in which case, this is a good way to make her very happy! And that''s the important thing.

 

[Regular Guy]

Just from the point of comprables on this board...there''s not many Ks, but between 2.5 - 3 carats, for those that are SI 2s, the cost noted is between $10 - $15 K.

Welcome, keep looking. You might explore notes under my signature, but they''re growing...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I truly would encourage you to go no lower than I or maybe J in a stone around 2 carats, and I would only consider an SI2 if it was completely eye clean. And the cert needs to be GIA or AGS. The stone you're looking at may very well be a lower color than K. I'd much rather have one of the stones that MWG linked. Several of those stones are under $20,000.

 

[mrssalvo]

I personally wouldn't go lower than an I, in a stone that size. You are going to see some color when you gt out of the jewelry store lighting.

 

[FireGoddess]

Color starts to be more evident in bigger stones like that....a K will be pushing it if she''s at all color sensitive. Not to mention the AIG grading...never heard of ''em.

 

[MWG]

Date: 5/24/2007 6:33:26 PM
Author: peekay
thank you MWG. Those links are great, but I prefer to stay under $20k. When I mean ''more or less eye clean'', I mean I have to try pretty darn hard to see the inclusions and I have good near vision since I''m still under 30 yrs old. The inclusions are really faint, about 2 faint white crystals. After going to the store, I concluded that the only thing I can really see are major inclusions, size, and overall brilliance. H and I color were good enough for me. In light of that, would you think this would be an ok deal at $16k?

With the Pricescope discount and a bank wire......... I think of these diamonds are under 20K.

When you said the inclusions are faint......is this under magnification or with the naked eye?

As far as spending 16k for a diamond that I can see inclusions with the naked eye.....NO!!! Under magnification this would be fine. And furthermore, beauty of the diamond is in the eye of the beholder!!! Also, I hate paying sales taxes!!!!!

Good Luck and tell what you decide
MWG

 

[peekay]

Date: 5/24/2007 7:42:37 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I truly would encourage you to go no lower than I or maybe J in a stone around 2 carats, and I would only consider an SI2 if it was completely eye clean. And the cert needs to be GIA or AGS. The stone you''re looking at may very well be a lower color than K. I''d much rather have one of the stones that MWG linked. Several of those stones are under $20,000.

could you elaborate on "completely eye clean"? does it mean that no matter how hard I look, there is no way I can see any inclusions without the aid of a 10x scope?

Or does it mean I can''t see it from x distance without a 10x scope?

Thanks, just trying not to get ripped here!

 

[peekay]

Date: 5/24/2007 8:02:04 PM
Author: MWG

Date: 5/24/2007 6:33:26 PM
Author: peekay
thank you MWG. Those links are great, but I prefer to stay under $20k. When I mean ''more or less eye clean'', I mean I have to try pretty darn hard to see the inclusions and I have good near vision since I''m still under 30 yrs old. The inclusions are really faint, about 2 faint white crystals. After going to the store, I concluded that the only thing I can really see are major inclusions, size, and overall brilliance. H and I color were good enough for me. In light of that, would you think this would be an ok deal at $16k?

With the Pricescope discount and a bank wire......... I think of these diamonds are under 20K.

When you said the inclusions are faint......is this under magnification or with the naked eye?

As far as spending 16k for a diamond that I can see inclusions with the naked eye.....NO!!! Under magnification this would be fine. And furthermore, beauty of the diamond is in the eye of the beholder!!! Also, I hate paying sales taxes!!!!!

Good Luck and tell what you decide
MWG

MWG, I mean holding it within 3-4 inches away from my eye and looking very very carefully. As carefully as if I was trying to get a splinter out of my hand!

 

[FireGoddess]

Generally speaking, eye clean refers to a distance from 10-12 inches from your face, without magnification. However, I would prefer something to be eye clean from a closer distance than that. Just a few inches from my face.

You should specify this when talking to a vendor if it''s important to you.

 

[peekay]

Thanks for everyone''s responses, I truly appreciate the hospitality here!

As for everyone concerned with the color, assuming it was an ideal cut (which according to the HC Advisor it is), and it had the Echo gimmick on it (claims it has 2x''s the normal amount of facets a normal round brilliant cut has), is it possible that a K looks close to an H?

I know this is all very subjective and difficult over the phone. But I just want some idea before paying an extra $2-3k for a color grade better. Thanks again!

 

[peekay]

Date: 5/24/2007 8:07:38 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Generally speaking, eye clean refers to a distance from 10-12 inches from your face, without magnification. However, I would prefer something to be eye clean from a closer distance than that. Just a few inches from my face.

You should specify this when talking to a vendor if it''s important to you.

Thanks for the clarification. To clarify then, under Firegoddess'' definition, the stone is eye clean. There is no way I can see the inclusions from 12" away.

 

[JulieN]

when you're in the store, why don't you ask some other couple there if they can see the difference in color?

I think...a K shouldn't be bought as a present unless she said that she wants size above anything else.

 

[peekay]

Date: 5/24/2007 8:42:54 PM
Author: JulieN
when you''re in the store, why don''t you ask some other couple there if they can see the difference in color?

I think...a K shouldn''t be bought as a present unless she said that she wants size above anything else.

that''s what I did. They brought an H and I for me to compare. Both were GIA cert''ed. I could tell a difference with the H, but it looked very similar to the I. The sales lady claimed that this was bc it has a great cut, has some flourescence, and has the extra facets from the Echo gimmick. Do you guys think this could be possible? It''s a huge rock, and I''m always skeptical of "too good to be true deals", especially from a retail store.

 

[MWG]

Does this store offer lifetime upgrade policy on their GIA certified diamonds?

Also, if buying a K color diamond and spending that much money, I think it is time to consult your fiancee and see what she thinks.

MWG

 

[mrssalvo]

I can''t really see differences in color in jewelry store lighting so I''m not surprised that the I and K looked similar. the sales lady is correct that the cut will help blind the color and you''ll just see sparkle. But, the stone was still graded a K and a K is still a K. I do think the wearer sensitivity to color is really the only opinion that matters here. I wouldn''t go below an I and would gladly take a smaller stone but others prioritize size above all else and don''t mind the possible tint. what does your gal see??

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with MrsS. You cannot tell a thing in jewelry store lighting. But a 2+ ct. K stone will be visibly tinted in natural lighting. My reaction to seeing a stone like that would be, gosh, I''d so much rather have a whiter stone that was a little smaller. A 2 carat I SI1 or VS2 with a GIA or AGS cert would be faaar more desirable to me. You do get what you pay for. You''d get a stone that may be K or L in color and maybe SI2 or I1 for clarity. I''d really encourage you to look at the I color stones posted earlier because that would look SO much better in a 2 ct. stone.

 

[Ellen]

Hi peekay,

You''ve been given lots of great advice here.

In a nutshell, this stone has been graded by a lab none of us have heard of. That''s the first reason to pause. Secondly, this is a large stone, and the larger they are, no matter how well cut, the more they will show color. Thirdly, as stated, jewelry lighting hides everything.

I would strongly urge sticking to AGS or GIA. In fact, if you''re buying from a private retailor, I''d say stick with an AGS000, that will ensure you get a decent stone. And if that means going down in size and up in color a tad, that''s ok.

 

[peekay]

thanks everyone. I have received quite a bit of advice here. I guess I will aim for a min I color, eye clean VS2-SI2, with at least a premium cut. I''ll keep you all posted. thanks again!