Yehuda Claim: We sell for less than Blue Nile!

[niceice]

Comments from the Peanut Gallery on this claim by Yehuda Diamond Company and the position they are taking against Blue Nile and other online vendors that Yehuda diamonds cost less than untreated diamonds advertised by legitimate online vendors.

At first glance, the statement is true. Yehuda clarity enhanced FRACTURE FILLED diamonds do cost less than Natural, Untreated, diamonds which are NOT glass filled. Imagine that, it''s just like Salvaged Automobiles cost less than Factory NEW Automobiles. Huh, who would have thunk it?

The 1.19 carat, H, VS-2, Yehuda FRACTURE FILLED example "certified" by GGL is advertised by Yehuda for $5,278.00 which is approximately 24% less than the 1.19 carat, H, VS-2, GIA "certified" option used as a comparison with Blue Nile. Let''s see, that''s a (proposed) "savings" of 24% but what percentage of the Yehuda diamond is filled with glass or another filling agent? Doh!

Truth in Advertising: Me thinks there are specific Item Number references missing from this example! Yehuda claims that they "Vow to fight any Blue Nile action aimed at stopping their price comparisons" but every idiot knows that the Federal Trade Commission requires reference to specific inventory items when advertising price because the FTC requires that advertisers "back up their claims with solid proof" and solid proof can not be determined without reference to specific items - and when a comparison to another vendors product is made such as this, it can only be made accurately if there is a specific item referenced on both sides of the comparison. Copies of the lab reports for both diamonds should also be provided.

Are consumers really as stupid as the "comparison" provided on the front page of the Yehuda web site seems to imply?

 

[LegacyGirl]

Gesh what morons...

 

[purrfectpear]

I vote for flogging. Sadly there are some people who will not understand what clarity enhanced really means to the value of a diamond.

 

[niceice]

I''m considering a career in advertising

 

[oldminer]

"Are consumers really as stupid as the "comparison" provided on the front page of the Yehuda web site seems to imply? "


I sort of wish the above was the subject of the poll. People are determined to hear what they want to hear and believe the incredible.

We see many people who have good sense lose it when they go on a vacation and make a dumb purchase in an overseas venue because they were pressured to make a deal. They may have not felt pressured, but they left their guard down and a moment is all it takes.

I am sure that glass filled diamonds can be proved to be less costly than their totally natural counterparts. What a ridiculous comparison to publsih. I am sure Yehuda can prove their claim if anyone would believe what they assert. The assertion of equal value or equal quality is nonsense.

On the other hand, we have seen Yehuda type, clarity enhanced, glass filled, diamonds which looked really nice and were priced low enough to attract a buyer. That''s business and it is okay to offer the product at a fair price. The fairness of any price is based on a free market assessement of value, not on marketing hype.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 4/2/2008 1:46:10 PM
Author: niceice
I''m considering a career in advertising

ROFLMAO. It''s sad. I voted for flogging too.

 

[diagem]

http://yehudadiamonds.blogspot.com/2008/02/yehuda-diamonds-vows-to-fight-any-blue.html


PRESS RELEASE:

Friday, February 08, 2008
Yehuda Diamonds Vows to Fight Any Blue Nile Action Aimed at Halting Price Comparisons



New York, NY (PRWEB) February 8, 2008 - The Yehuda Diamond Company has
told a federal court in Washington State that it has done nothing
wrong in comparing the price and appearance of its clarity-enhanced
diamonds to those natural non-enhanced stones sold by competitor, Blue
Nile Inc.
In defending itself against a lawsuit filed by Blue Nile, Yehuda
Diamond said in a related statement that "consumers have an absolute
right to know how much they stand to save by shopping with us and we
will defend that right vigorously both in court and the marketplace."

Yehuda Diamond, which has earned widespread industry and consumer
loyalty for its successful challenge to leading online jewelers, sells
its clarity-enhanced diamonds exclusively through respected retail
jewelers, who offer personalized, expert, face-to-face customer
service. By contrast, Blue Nile bypasses the retail distribution
chain.
Blue Nile, which seeks to stop Yehuda Diamonds'' pricing comparisons,
filed its lawsuit on December 18, 2007. In its complaint, Blue Nile
acknowledges that "clarity enhancement can improve a diamond''s
apparent clarity by one or two grades." But Blue Nile contends in its
complaint that Yehuda Diamonds'' comparisons to its prices are
"misleading."
"What would be misleading would be to prevent consumers from being
able to make the choice between our clarity-enhanced diamonds and
those Blue Nile sells without clarity enhancement," said Dror Yehuda
in a company statement. "The public needs to know that our prices,
which come with unsurpassed expert service, are - plain and simple -
lower than Blue Nile''s prices."
Full details concerning the price-advantages, brilliance and other
characteristics of Yehuda quality-enhanced diamonds can be found at
www.yehuda.com. In addition, the Yehuda web site explains how it
encourages consumers to visit a local jeweler and personally examine
the diamonds before they buy - without cost, obligation or pressure.

 

[niceice]

Date: 4/2/2008 2:17:04 PM
Author: DiaGem

In its complaint, Blue Nile acknowledges that 'clarity enhancement can improve a diamond's apparent clarity by one or two grades.' But Blue Nile contends in its complaint that Yehuda Diamonds' comparisons to its prices are 'misleading.'

And within this explanation is the reality behind the "savings" of Fracture Filled diamonds... Take a look at this excerpt from a recent Rapaport price report for the 1.00 - 1.49 carat range, the estimated Price Per Carat (PPC) for H color, VS-2 is highlighted in Yellow and prices for SI-1 and SI-2 (one and two clarity grades lower than VS-2, respectively) are highlighted in Pink. I believe that the concept of "savings" based on a fracture filled diamond "costing less" than a diamond of "comparable quality" is misleading because in reality the actual value (and selling price) of the diamond is based upon the estimated clarity of the diamond rough before treatment... With this in mind, are people who buy fracture filled diamonds actually saving money, or are they merely buying a treated diamond at a price similar to what a diamond of the same original quality would have been prior to treatment? In which case, are they merely paying for perceived value since, say an SI-2 clarity crystal, might face up like a VS-2 to the naked eye after treatment? Hey my grandmother used to Miracle Glo her kitchen floors before company came over... Was that like getting a new floor? It certainly cost less than a new floor and it "looked much better"

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/2/2008 2:46:14 PM
Author: niceice

Date: 4/2/2008 2:17:04 PM
Author: DiaGem

In its complaint, Blue Nile acknowledges that ''clarity enhancement can improve a diamond''s apparent clarity by one or two grades.'' But Blue Nile contends in its complaint that Yehuda Diamonds'' comparisons to its prices are ''misleading.''

And within this explanation is the reality behind the ''savings'' of Fracture Filled diamonds... Take a look at this excerpt from a recent Rapaport price report for the 1.00 - 1.49 carat range, the estimated Price Per Carat (PPC) for H color, VS-2 is highlighted in Yellow and prices for SI-1 and SI-2 (one and two clarity grades lower than VS-2, respectively) are highlighted in Pink. I believe that the concept of ''savings'' based on a fracture filled diamond ''costing less'' than a diamond of ''comparable quality'' is misleading because in reality the actual value (and selling price) of the diamond is based upon the estimated clarity of the diamond rough before treatment... With this in mind, are people who buy fracture filled diamonds actually saving money, or are they merely buying a treated diamond at a price similar to what a diamond of the same original quality would have been prior to treatment? In which case, are they merely paying for perceived value since, say an SI-2 clarity crystal, might face up like a VS-2 to the naked eye after treatment? Hey my grandmother used to Miracle Glo her kitchen floors before company came over... Was that like getting a new floor? It certainly cost less than a new floor and it ''looked much better''

Another important quote from the Yehuda press release:

"...The Yehuda Diamond Company has
told a federal court in Washington State that it has done nothing
wrong in comparing the price and appearance of its clarity-enhanced
diamonds to those natural non-enhanced stones sold by competitor, Blue
Nile Inc. ..."

 

[niceice]

Date: 4/2/2008 2:56:23 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 4/2/2008 2:46:14 PM
"...The Yehuda Diamond Company has
told a federal court in Washington State that it has done nothing
wrong in comparing the price and appearance of its clarity-enhanced
diamonds to those natural non-enhanced stones sold by competitor, Blue
Nile Inc...

Yet the statement made on the Yehuda web site mentions nothing of how the diamonds visually compare... The only comparison that Yehuda seems to be making is in reference to price. Theoretical Question: Does anybody think that the natural, untreated diamond sold by Internet Vendor "A" exhibits the purplish-blue flash effect of a fracture filled diamond?

Oh man, if I were the legal council for Blue Nile, I''d take a torch to the Yehuda diamond used as a comparison to the Blue Nile diamond and ask the jury whether they appear to be comparable. Dear Judge, the devil made me do it

 

[CaptAubrey]

Without offering an opinion on this one, I''m very interested in seeing how it comes out.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

Yeah Yehuda, you are comparing apples to, um...oh I don''t know...anything other than apples!

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/2/2008 3:27:31 PM
Author: niceice

Date: 4/2/2008 2:56:23 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 4/2/2008 2:46:14 PM
''...The Yehuda Diamond Company has
told a federal court in Washington State that it has done nothing
wrong in comparing the price and appearance of its clarity-enhanced
diamonds to those natural non-enhanced stones sold by competitor, Blue
Nile Inc...

Yet the statement made on the Yehuda web site mentions nothing of how the diamonds visually compare... The only comparison that Yehuda seems to be making is in reference to price. Theoretical Question: Does anybody think that the natural, untreated diamond sold by Internet Vendor ''A'' exhibits the purplish-blue flash effect of a fracture filled diamond?

Oh man, if I were the legal council for Blue Nile, I''d take a torch to the Yehuda diamond used as a comparison to the Blue Nile diamond and ask the jury whether they appear to be comparable. Dear Judge, the devil made me do it

http://www.yehuda.com/process.asp


"...The revolutionary process optically eliminates "feathers", which are naturally occurring in most diamonds. The result is a more visually stunning diamond that you can purchase for significantly less then a similar-looking, non-enhanced diamond...."

 

[WinkHPD]

Just curious.

Todd, why do you not show the price comparison between the VS2 and the I1 that this stone would have needed to be in order to be clarity enhanced. The glass gets in through surface breaking inclusions, they do not open it up to pour the glass in, they pour it in via already open cleavages. (Yes, I know they really suck it in via a vacuum atmosphere, but just sounds so gross.)

A 1.19ct H-I1 is 3500 per carat, WAY below the 5400 per carat you quoted above. It is only about 65% the cost of the stone they are comparing it to.

They also forget to mention that no real lab (sorry to those who are offended) will grade the apparent clarity of a CE diamond. I believe that they will just label it as clarity enhanced and not offer a grade, or they may return it ungraded, I do not remember which. (nor do I care.)

Wink.

 

[risingsun]

Silly me! I missed the flogging option

 

[simplysplendid]

There is no comparison... you can''t compare a rotten egg with a fresh egg.

 

[simplysplendid]

Why don''t someone start selling moissanite and start comparing prices with Yehuda''s fracture filled diamonds? Something along the lines of "Our cultured diamonds are 80% (put in any number here) cheaper than Yehuda''s clarity enhanced diamonds"?

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/2/2008 1:22:46 PM
Author:niceice


Comments from the Peanut Gallery on this claim by Yehuda Diamond Company and the position they are taking (defending themselves) against Blue Nile and other online vendors that Yehuda diamonds cost less than untreated diamonds advertised by legitimate online vendors.

As far as i know and am concerned..., Yehuda Diamonds is and always was a legitimate Diamond vendor.

At first glance, the statement is true. Yehuda clarity enhanced FRACTURE FILLED diamonds do cost less than Natural, Untreated, diamonds which are NOT glass filled. Imagine that, it''s just like Salvaged Automobiles cost less than Factory NEW Automobiles. Huh, who would have thunk it?

Based on what information are you stating the material Yehuda uses for its fracture filled process is "glass"?

The 1.19 carat, H, VS-2, Yehuda FRACTURE FILLED example ''certified'' by GGL is advertised by Yehuda for $5,278.00 which is approximately 24% less than the 1.19 carat, H, VS-2, GIA ''certified'' option used as a comparison with Blue Nile. Let''s see, that''s a (proposed) ''savings'' of 24% but what percentage of the Yehuda diamond is filled with glass or another filling agent? Doh!

Todd..., as far as I know..., the weight of any Diamond prior to the treatment and after stays unchanged!!! Your writing is misleading!

Truth in Advertising: Me thinks there are specific Item Number references missing from this example! Yehuda claims that they ''Vow to fight any Blue Nile action aimed at stopping their price comparisons'' but every idiot knows that the Federal Trade Commission requires reference to specific inventory items when advertising price because the FTC requires that advertisers ''back up their claims with solid proof'' and solid proof can not be determined without reference to specific items - and when a comparison to another vendors product is made such as this, it can only be made accurately if there is a specific item referenced on both sides of the comparison. Copies of the lab reports for both diamonds should also be provided.

Are consumers really as stupid as the ''comparison'' provided on the front page of the Yehuda web site seems to imply?

I would like to add a bit of information about the Yehuda family.
I am not their speaker so I will make it short and to the point!

I am acquainted and have been in extremely close relations with the Yehuda family for over 25 years!
They are one of the important and respected families in this industry..., sure, there are some members of this industry who hate and some love them, as with many other leaders of this industry..., and make no mistake..., the Yehuda family is considered a leader of innovations with a great track record and proof of accomplishments!
Clarity enhanced Diamond is just a fraction of their contribution to the innovations which serve this wonderful industry!
I will not name other contributions as I dont promote by way of nature!

I am not (and never was) a big fan of clarity enhanced Diamonds..., but it is a big industry with many paths/possibilities to serve consumers needs! And obviously..., there is demand for these types of Diamonds, and the Yehuda family are the pioneers which invented and supplied this specific demand..., and most importantly..., they did it with full honesty.

I am not knowledgeable with any case-law and am not familiar with the facts of the lawsuit against the Yehuda family..., but from what I read on their website (and I am not a legal professional), I have not noticed anything unethical whatsoever!

As far as I am concerned..., taking an imperfect Diamond with specific inclusions and enhancing its appearance is in my book an added value service!
It would probably not serve your typical PS consumer..., but as I said many times before..., the PS consumer is a drop in the ocean of world consumers out there!

On another note..., I am surprised at the attacks and comments made by professionals against the Yehuda Diamond Company and/or their product..., a legitimate business with no evidence of prior misconduct or illegal practices!!!

Not to mention the fact that it is strictly prohibited to reproduce in ANY form the prices on the Rapaport Price List!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 4/2/2008 3:51:51 PM
Author: Wink
Just curious.


Todd, why do you not show the price comparison between the VS2 and the I1 that this stone would have needed to be in order to be clarity enhanced. The glass gets in through surface breaking inclusions, they do not open it up to pour the glass in, they pour it in via already open cleavages. (Yes, I know they really suck it in via a vacuum atmosphere, but just sounds so gross.)


A 1.19ct H-I1 is 3500 per carat, WAY below the 5400 per carat you quoted above. It is only about 65% the cost of the stone they are comparing it to.


They also forget to mention that no real lab (sorry to those who are offended) will grade the apparent clarity of a CE diamond. I believe that they will just label it as clarity enhanced and not offer a grade, or they may return it ungraded, I do not remember which. (nor do I care.)


Wink.

Well, I lied. I do care.

I was in error. Neither AGS or GIA will accept for grading of any kind a CE stone. I was unsure before, but have now been told for sure that they do now, which is what I expected. Not sure who does grade them, but THAT I am sure I do not care about.

Wink

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi Diagem, I am one of those that are not against clarity enhanced diamonds as, like you said, there is always a niche for them. But the issue is not the fact that they are selling clarity enhanced diamonds, but the comparison of these diamonds with the natural unenhanced ones. There will be consumers out there who doesn''t know better and think that they are the same thing since they are both natural diamonds. As a consumer, I think the comparison is misleading.

 

[WinkHPD]

Oh, Let this also be known.

I have sold their product a few times in the past. It is a legitimate product and serves a need.

I do not agree however that their ad is a proper use of that product as a comparison. I do not blame BN for being furious, I would be too.

Wink

 

[DiamondGirlHH]

They are simply trying to confuse the uneducated diamond shoppers...

Their product is legit and it fills a hole in the diamond market, pun intended, but their ad is simply not fair.

 

[niceice]

I have no issue with clarity enhanced diamonds, nor Yehuda Diamond as a company, we have long referenced them as a reliable source for clarity enhanced diamonds on our web site. I do object to the marketing ploy that Yehuda is using on their web site and find the advertising tactic to be misleading. I too know people in the Yehuda family, I think that just about anybody who has walked down the aisle at a trade show knows somebody from the Yehuda family... We''ve even bought diamonds from them in the past for clients who were specifically looking for a clarity enhanced diamond, they even produce an ideal cut diamond.

I have no objection to fracture filled diamonds, I object to the concept that they are comparable to natural, untreated diamonds and feel that ANY comparison of price to that of a natural, untreated diamond is deceptive. I consider the basic premise behind this advertising campaign to be sleazy and appears to be an assault specifically directed at Blue Nile which is something that I find quite interesting... All of the comparisons are made against diamonds from Blue Nile, one has to wonder why?

Regarding the change in carat weight concept... I think it is reasonable to think of the degree to which a diamond contains a filling agent to be considered in terms of percentage. I never said anything about carat weight.

Oh yea, I''ll take my chances with Martin Rapaport. If he wants to cancel my subscription because I referenced a graphic from his report in this thread, I''ll just use The Guide and search for diamonds on IDEX or POLYGON it will just be one less thing that I have to pay for

 

[Brillig]

You know the saddest thing is that someone that really doesn''t know what is going on may even think that the filled diamond is better from that ad. I mean, would you rather have an H Color VS2 Natural diamond or an H Color VS2 Clarity Enhanced Diamond. If you knew nothing which would you assume was better? Of course in my humble opinion anybody in this day and age who buys a diamond without educating themselves first gets what they are asking for.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 4/2/2008 4:26:22 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 4/2/2008 3:51:51 PM

Author: Wink

Just curious.



Todd, why do you not show the price comparison between the VS2 and the I1 that this stone would have needed to be in order to be clarity enhanced. The glass gets in through surface breaking inclusions, they do not open it up to pour the glass in, they pour it in via already open cleavages. (Yes, I know they really suck it in via a vacuum atmosphere, but just sounds so gross.)



A 1.19ct H-I1 is 3500 per carat, WAY below the 5400 per carat you quoted above. It is only about 65% the cost of the stone they are comparing it to.



They also forget to mention that no real lab (sorry to those who are offended) will grade the apparent clarity of a CE diamond. I believe that they will just label it as clarity enhanced and not offer a grade, or they may return it ungraded, I do not remember which. (nor do I care.)



Wink.

Well, I lied. I do care.


I was in error. Neither AGS or GIA will accept for grading of any kind a CE stone. I was unsure before, but have now been told for sure that they do now, which is what I expected. Not sure who does grade them, but THAT I am sure I do not care about.


Wink

Oh, I am referring to CE as fracture filled, not laser drilled which technically is also a form of CE and that will be graded by both labs with the notation that the diamonds are laser drilled.

 

[niceice]

Date: 4/2/2008 4:53:05 PM
Author: Brillig
You know the saddest thing is that someone that really doesn't know what is going on may even think that the filled diamond is better from that ad. I mean, would you rather have an H Color VS2 Natural diamond or an H Color VS2 Clarity Enhanced Diamond. If you knew nothing which would you assume was better? Of course in my humble opinion anybody in this day and age who buys a diamond without educating themselves first gets what they are asking for.

Thankfully most of the jewelry stores that sell fracture filled diamonds disclose the treatment and offer clarity enhanced diamonds as "a more affordable option" for people who are seeking an alternative to the price of a natural, untreated diamond. I have no issue with the sale of clarity enhanced / fracture filled diamonds providing that consumers are made aware of the treatment and understand that the treatment may not be permanent - to their credit, Yehuda offers a lifetime warranty which provides for the re-treatment of their diamonds in the event that it fails and/or is damaged.

I actually would not have an issue with Yehuda Diamonds trying to establish the value of their product by comparing it on a basis of visual perception, a bigger bang for your buck and all that. But I don't think that they should have made a specific reference to the natural, untreated offerings of Blue Nile or any other vendor for that matter and that is the actual point of this thread - they chose to single out a specific internet vendor to make their price comparison with AND it seems misleading to compare a fracture filled diamond to a natural, untreated diamond from a perspective of price without providing a clear explanation in the advertisement for the reason behind the price difference. This graphic is from a slide presentation created by the Federal Trade Commission on
Truth in Advertising for Etailing the first requirement of Advertising is "tell the truth" and I believe that more information is necessary in the concept of this comparison in order for it to be considered truthful. Notice how Klondike had to provide a basis for their statements in the advertisement.

 

[adamasgem]

RE: : " "The public needs to know that our prices, which come with unsurpassed expert service, are - plain and simple -
lower than Blue Nile''s prices."

Dah... what would anyone expect, sell an Clarity enhanced I1 that may look like a S12 for the same price??? Same sort of BS marketing a company called the Diamond Exchange uses comparing high end dealers prices, for UNLIKE products.

Price comparisons between UNLIKE products, are in my opion, FALSE AND DECEPTIVE, if not FRAUDULANT.

There is nothing wrong with a CE stone, as long as it is properly disclosed with the requisite care and feeding instructions.

Now comparing two stones with the same grades given by two DIFFERENT labs, when one is CE and one isn''t, MAY BE false and deceptive, however if the CE stone was better cut, maybe I''d opt for that.

Now besides clarity, I have shown that CE stones can have altered spectrums and distort the color grade also, actually, from what I have seen and scanned, making the color slightly worse than the original body color, with some versions of the filler. So if the stone is color graded after it is filled (and maybe drilled) then the color grade may be worse than it actually is(was).

A 24% discount from a perceived grade is actually a rip-off given the cost of the procedure and the SI2 to I1 actual differentials, in my opinion. "Added value" no, added "saleability", yes , and for the consumer wanting more bang for the buck, may be, and I say MAY BE, ok.

I''d side with Blue Nile on this one.

 

[diagem]

Date: 4/2/2008 5:56:32 PM
Author: adamasgem

Now besides clarity, I have shown that CE stones can have altered spectrums and distort the color grade also, actually, from what I have seen and scanned, making the color slightly worse than the original body color, with some versions of the filler. So if the stone is color graded after it is filled (and maybe drilled) then the color grade may be worse than it actually is(was).

True Marty,

Thats why the majority of CE Diamonds are lower colors as this distortion is less obvious! And in the colorless material you notice the rainbow spectrum effect immediately...

 

[niceice]

If the U.S. Postal Service put a banner advertisement up on their web site that boldly claimed that U.S. Priority Mail cost less than Fed Ex Priority Service, the statement would be accurate. However it would also be misleading because U.S. Priority Mail has a 3 - 4 day delivery time and Fed Ex Priority service is overnight delivery. The fact that both freight services incorporate the word "Priority" does not make them "comparable" just as Clarity Enhanced Diamond and Natural Diamond both incorporate the word "Diamond" but are not comparable in terms of quality, durability, nor longevity, and thus can not be accurately compared by price alone.

Is a 1.19 carat, H color, VS-2 clarity, diamond graded by the GIA comparable to a 1.19 carat, H color, VS-2 clarity diamond graded by the AGS? Comparable to a diamond of the same stated characteristics graded by EGL USA / EGL Israel / IGI / GCAL / GGL? Would any diamond professional in their right mind say that these diamonds are comparable? According to the listing, they are all 1.19 carats, all H color, all VS-2 in clarity, but are they comparable? I don't think that it would be reasonable to imply that the group of GIA graded diamonds represented on this list would be "comparable" and yet they are all GIA graded!

 

[risingsun]

Just a small irksome point in the Yehuda ad...the diamonds are being described as ideal cut. Can't they describe the GIA diamond as an excellent cut. As for the Yehuda, I have know idea what their lab descriptions are supposed to mean. Maybe use the term graded instead of certified. I know, most people won't know or care, but it's careless and unprofessional--as is the rest of the ad