Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color grades?

[daspenn]

I can't decide between two cushion diamonds for my girlfriend that are VERY similar, and the same price... I put the full specs below, but basically, one is a 2.48 G VS2, and the other is a 2.22 E VS2. So the main tradeoff is an extra .26 carats vs. two color grades. I know the answer is "which ever looks better to you" but I don't have an eye for these things -- they both look beautiful to me! Also, the second diamond is a "Daussi" -- which apparently means that it is cut shallower but supposedly without trading off light performance. Should I be concerned about the shallow cut? Or excited about the fact that it's a Daussi? Please HELP!

Cushion Brilliant -- 2.48 carats / VS2 / G
Measurements -- 8.75 x 8.04 x 4.76
Depth -- 59.2%
Table -- 57%
Girdle -- Thin to Medium, Faceted
Polish -- Good
Symmetry -- Good
Flourescence – None

Cushion Brilliant – 2.22 carats / VS2 / E
Measurements – 9.16 x 8.08 x 3.64
Depth – 45%
Table – 63%
Girdle – Medium to Very Thick, Faceted
Polish – Good
Symmetry – Very Good
Flourescence – Medium Blue

 

[Circe]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

It's hard to tell without and ASET or a picture of the stone, but of the two, I'd definitely go for the 2.48. Because of the thick girdle on the Daussi, despite the incredibly shallow depth, there isn't actually that much of a difference in size between the two ... and the shallow cut of the Daussi really minimizes the light return, i.e., sparkle (a thick girdle doesn't really affect optics, practically speaking, except to hide weight) . A G is plenty white - and there's the bonus of being able to just say "It's two and a half carats," should anybody ask.

Go for the 2.48, out of those two, but maybe post some more info on that one as well, and we'll see if it's the best out there for your budget, or if there's maybe an even better stone out there somewhere waiting in the wings.

 

[kenny]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Do a search here, or on Google for Daussi.
Diamond either reflects light or lets it pass through depending on the angle between the facet and the light ray.
I think Daussi is a cut that is too shallow so it leaks light instead of reflecting it back out the top of the diamond.

Some sellers love it because it is a cut that looks large for the weight.
Customers may love it too if they don't know any better or just care about apparent size more than good light performance.
Given that many buyers have never seen a well-cut diamond . . . well you get the idea.
Someone might say it is all opinion, but I'll betcha most opinions would swing away from Daussi if a customer saw a Daussi next to a diamond cut for good light performance.

Get a properly taken ASET image (with diamond in front of the light source, also called backlit) and look for windowing where you can see the light behind the diamond as though you were looking through a window.

Also consider that any vendor who sells Daussi is not an independent source for information regarding the brand.

Next when it come to the trade off between color and weight everyone will have their own preferences.
I'd prefer a smaller diamond of better color but you are not proposing to me.

The only person with a preference that matters is the person who will wear the ring.

 

[daspenn]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Thank you both very much for such knowledgeable and informative response. I share both of your skepticism about the Daussi cut... Kenny, w/r/t your suggestion to get an ASET image, is that the machine that I have seen at one dealer where you can see red where the diamond is properly reflecting light? If I ask the two dealers of these diamonds for an ASET image, they should just be able to provide it?

Circe, unfortunately I don't have pictures or scans of the diamonds (yet).

They are both right around 25K, which seems to be pretty competitive based on some other quotes that I have received. Does that sound reasonable to you guys? I know it's hard to tell without seeing them, and I feel strange asking that question, but since this site is called "pricescope," I figured I might as well ask.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

HI daspenn,
Welcome to Pricescope.

first thing- any seller claiming "better light performance" on Fancy Shaped Diamonds is using hype and confusing it with fact.
If someone said Daussi cuts shallower stones that don't trade "light performance" it's misleading.
Of course it's the same with any other brand claiming "superior optics" or "better light performance"
"Optics", and "light performance" are quite simple to define.
They mean "how a stone looks"
So, if a person likes the way a Daussi cushion looks, then they like it's "optics," and "light performance"
My experience is that the increased size of a shallower stone in some cases, wins the day as compared to a stone of comparable weight with a smaller visible appearance that may have a different type of light return.
By no means do all shallow stones show visible deficiency in brilliance or sparkle- although some will.
This is true of Daussi, as well as any other shallow stones.

I have looked at a lot of Daussi stones, and they're really not cut to consistent appearance- some are deeper.
Some are square. Some are emerald cut looking- some are not.
As far as my preference?
Some I love, some I do not.
Not that it matters to the case of assisting you in find a stone.

So- what I'd suggest for you is to try and look at this with fresh eyes.
Forget about the technicalities- and try to get in touch with your own preferences.
If you can view the stones side by side, that's an amazing opportunity.
Make sure you look at the stones out of bright spotlights- if possible near a window.
If you can look at the stones loose, ask the vendor to place the stone in between two of your fingers- so you can hold it close toyour eyes, then move out to arm's length.

In terms of price, it's very hard to compare these two stones.
An E with Medium Blue will take a hit in terms of value compared to a stone with no blue.
Plus, shallower stones should command lower per carat prices.
That is to say, a Cushion Brilliant 2.22 E/VS2 with no fluorescence would be more valuable, based on market conditions.
It's also true that a Cushion Brilliant with a more traditional depth will likely be more costly on a per carat basis.

OMG I just realized the most important question, not yet asked- who issued these grades?
Are there GIA reports?

ETA- we posted at the same time- the report question will really assist you in checking the prices.

 

[daspenn]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Sorry, I should have mentioned -- both are GIA reports.

Rockdiamond, you make several really good points, but just to address two of them...

Unfortunately, I don't think that I will be able to compare the diamonds side by side. They are at different dealers, and although I havent' asked, I just can't imagine that happening. My girlfriend and I were joking about testing out their return policy by buying one and taking it to the other store just to compare side by side, but I'm not nearly that courageous.

The second point is that we were only able to view the 2.22 carat in a setting with a halo around it, and, to me, I just don't think I get a sense for what the diamond looks like when it's surrounded by all those other diamonds. My eye can barely distinguish where one ends and the other begins. Plus you can't see the side of the diamond, get a sense for its depth, etc.

The 2.48, on the other hand, we saw in a very simple setting where you could really see the diamond (and all around the sides, etc.). We were also able to take it out of the bright lights, and look at it in the sunlight. And it really looked nice. So again, that made me feel more comfortable with that diamond.

Once again, really appreciate all of this tremendously helpful feedback.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Is there a local seller of Daussi cushions where you can go look at some? Sure they will vary in size and shape, but the *flavour* of the cut will be similar. See how you like it.

Other than that I can't help much based on the information you gave. Color and size are not the determining factor for me between these two particular stones. Both are big enough and white enough *for me*. It would come down to how they performed for me. If you can't tell the difference between different diamonds I suggest a little more "eye education" is a good idea. See as many diamonds as you can, in different lighting. There are also lots of good videos of diamonds out there, but those are only one or two ighting environments and may not match what you see in real life, so real life experience is the best.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

You're welcome daspenn,
I got it.
So, the question becomes- did you love the Daussi ring in its entirety?

If not, probably best to keep looking. Their settings work well with their stones but buying to re-set...I'd say better to start with a loose stone most likely.
The seller might not even be willing to separate stone and ring.

As far as wanting to see depth from the side.. it's become apparent to me in recent discussions about clarity that side view is important to more folks than I'd have thought.
If you're one of those people then a shallow stone is not for you.
A good halo setting will generally hide the girdle of the diamond- and many hide the entire side view.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Is there a local seller of Daussi cushions where you can go look at some? Sure they will vary in size and shape, but the *flavour* of the cut will be similar. See how you like it.

Other than that I can't help much based on the information you gave. Color and size are not the determining factor for me between these two particular stones. Both are big enough and white enough *for me*. It would come down to how they performed for me. If you can't tell the difference between different diamonds I suggest a little more "eye education" is a good idea. See as many diamonds as you can, in different lighting. There are also lots of good videos of diamonds out there, but those are only one or two ighting environments and may not match what you see in real life, so real life experience is the best.

Sorry, I just reread you post and you have seen both in person just not compared side by side. And you had no preference at all? Really?

 

[kenny]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Kenny, w/r/t your suggestion to get an ASET image, is that the machine that I have seen at one dealer where you can see red where the diamond is properly reflecting light? If I ask the two dealers of these diamonds for an ASET image, they should just be able to provide it?

No, you are describing the Idealscope, https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

I'm refering to the ASET scope. http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_ASET_scope.asp

Most B&M jewelers are behind the times in that they do not carry/support well cut diamonds, (a relatively recent phenomenon) so they have not either heard of these two tools, or pretend they have not because the tools will expose that the diamonds they sell are not well cut.

You can either buy your own ASET scope and carry it into your local jeweler, or buy your diamond from a dealer who provides ASET images, like www.goodoldgold.com

 

[daspenn]

Re: Would you rather an extra quarter carat or two color gra

Rockdiamond -- I didn't love the Daussi in its entirety, but I can't tell what part of that is not loving the diamond, and what part is attributable to the fact that I'm not a big fan of halo settings. As for the importance of being able to view the 2.48 G VS2 from the side, it's not so much that I was trying to evaluate the clarity, it's just that I felt like I could examine the whole product, whereas with the 2.22 in the halo setting, I felt like I really know what I'm getting because I can only see the top of the stone. Are jewelers generally willing to separate the stone from the setting for a prospective buyer to view, or is that a difficult thing to do?

Dreamer D -- I guess the truth is that I liked the 2.48 G VS2 more, but I am wondering how much of that preference is attributable to the fact that the 2.48 was in a simple setting where I could see the whole diamond, whereas the 2.22 E VS2 was in a halo setting where I could only see the top. "Eye education" (I like that term a lot by the way) seems like a great idea but I've been at this for weeks and have concluded that my eyes are the type that got held back several times in the fifth grade. I just find it so difficult to compare diamonds when I can't see them side-by-side. My gut tells me the 2.48 G VS2 had better "light performance" (another term I quite like), but with so much at stake I'm having trouble taking action on a mere gut feeling.

One last question that I forgot to ask: the GIA cert. on the 2.48 is from 2004. Should that be a concern for any reason? Have the GIA standards tightened/loosened at all with respect to Cushion Brilliant cuts?

Thanks again for all the help.