Would you isolate yourself from your family if you know you will be in contact with Covid 19 almost daily?

[Buttercookies]

I like to hear your opinion.

I’m coming back to work in a few months from leave but I’m a first responder and will be in contact with Covid 19 directly. If you are in my shoe, will you isolate yourself from your husband and kids? If so how would you do that? And for how long? I don’t think this will go away anytime soon.

 

[kenny]

Yes.

 

[Buttercookies]

Yes.

For how long though because this isn’t going away.

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

First, @Buttercookies thanks for all that you do! If I were in your shoes, I would self isolate indefinitely until there is a vaccine. It will be very hard and a huge sacrifice, but worth it to protect their health. Are local hotels still providing accommodations for first responders? Is there a room in your house that is separate from the rest of the house?

 

[1ofakind]

If they have compromised health then yes, obviously they should be protected. Otherwise will you have access to frequent testing? There is no guarantee of a vaccine so you may just have to evaluate their risk vs staying away from them for an extended time, years even.

ETA- a family member is a HCP in contact with COVID patients out of a hospital setting. She has 2 young sons and they live with her mom. She is careful but there is no reasonable way she can isolate from her children for what would be going on 5 months and who knows how much longer.

 

[kenny]

For how long though because this isn’t going away.

Till there is a vaccine and most people have taken it and there are no new cases.
IOW, forever if necessary.
But then, there will always be those charming vaccine holdouts.

The world has changed, so we must adjust or perish.
It's no longer business as usual.
It's survival of the fittest, and those would be the folks who are best at minimizing contact with the virus - which means minimizing contact with the virus factories - aka humans ... even family.

If we get a vaccine and things improve, that would be wonderful.
I hope for it, but I'm no holding my breath.

Fortunately since I'm an extreme introvert, all this bothers me less than it does most.
I have, by choice, been "socially isolated" long before the pandemic - just without the masks.

I have only 4 family members, with whom I have nearly no contact (zero contact for the last 15 years or so).
So the pandemic means no change with family contact.

 

[Buttercookies]

The problem is that I have 2 months and 18 months old. I cannot see myself isolated from them for years or I will miss out on the best part of their lives.

We don’t have a basement in the house and I don’t think that’s foolproof anyhow.

I wonder if anyone else is in the same predicament.

 

[kenny]

Everyone must draw their own line in the social sand.

I draw the line at my SO.
We live together.
Unlike me with mine, he's very close to his family.
He's reduced seeing them in person from 3 times a week to maybe once or twice a month - with masks & hand washing, etc.

Of course for herd immunity it would be safest for every person to live alone, but I'm not a monster.
After considering the risk vs. benefit of living alone vs. having my SO in my life and home, there's no question, I want to be with him.
It's way worth it, and if I get C19 as a result, so be it.
A rich life shared with loved ones is IMO one of the things that life is all about.

Everyone must draw the social-distancing line for themselves.

Legal fine print from my lawyers at Dewey Cheatum & Howe:
As always, reporting my choices should not be interpreted as preaching that others should share them.
I accept that we vary.

 

[OboeGal]

The problem is that I have 2 months and 18 months old. I cannot see myself isolated from them for years or I will miss out on the best part of their lives.

We don’t have a basement in the house and I don’t think that’s foolproof anyhow.

I wonder if anyone else is in the same predicament.

Yes, with little ones that small, you can't isolate away from them. They need their mama. If I were in your shoes - and I know this will sound extreme - there is absolutely no way I would go back to work, and especially not where I would have contact with COVID patients. I just would not do it, especially with a 2 month old. That's too young to risk exposure. I would try to find another way to manage financially, find some way to make some money from home, try to get help from friends or family members that could help financially......something. I know - that's easy for me to say, sitting here.

I'm so sorry you're in this position.

 

[Snowdrop13]

If you have a few more months of leave it’s possible the pandemic will have died down (unless we all get a second wave, of course). If you can’t isolate just take plenty of precautions- loads of hand washing, take your clothes off at the door and put them in the washing machine, have a shower before you meet the family etc etc. Children seem to be low risk, mostly.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Children seem to be fairly low risk. I'd just dump my clothes at the front door and take a shower before I see them like @Snowdrop13 suggested.

This thing could go on for another 5 years. You can't lose years with your kids without an end date.

If the job is temporary and has an end date within a few months then I would isolate.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

I'm also a first responder and have taken a leave but will be going back soon but our daughter is about to turn 6 and isnt itty bitty. I do worry about tiny ones getting it especially if they havent had all of their vaccines which is why when we have our next baby in the near future I will end up quitting and staying home.

If you can, I'm another vote for stay home. If you can't id say for a 2 month old and an 18 month old your absence, however long will do more damage than you taking extreme precautions and stay there while working.

So I'd just come up with an easy system where you store your work clothes and shoes in something seperate and sealed, always wash those seperately and when you get home take them all off at the door and take a scrubby hot shower.
Nothing will be convenient, but for me personally itd be 100x easier than being away from my child. Especially when they're that little.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I just live with Gary, my SO
we have been self isolating for over a year because he got sick and it was just better to stsy home and not get colds and flu
I havn't been working during this time, i could not have left him alone all day, he was almost blind and was also very down but he's now getting better but he has a cronic illness
I thought if i got it i would sleep/ stay in the laundry till i wasn't contagious as our laundry is a room outside the back door but i must say the thought of being unwell and confined to s small cold room is not appealing

I know of a case (before the govt set up propper guarenteen) that was in the media where a lady who returned from over seas with covid 19 lived in a campervan in her driveway her husband rented, after she was too sick to stay in their remote holiday cottage
An unfortunate thing that happened in our situation is Gary's daughter had her cancer come back and it was a huge worry that she might catch covid
Its just such a worrying time to live in right now
they tell us we don't have community transmission but they had been letting people out of quarenteen without testing them

i have a friend in Brooklyn who's son caught it, and somehow no one else in the family got sick, my friend was the main carer for his son durring his illness and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned

 

[kenny]

Children seem to be fairly low risk.

OMG, I hate reading this over and over again!

Wake up!
Every human is equally at risk of getting C19.
While kids are less likely to die from it, they are equally likely to become virus factories, which disproportionately kills the older people.

Protecting your kids protects your grandparents.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

OMG, I hate reading this over and over again!

Wake up!
Every human is equally at risk of getting C19.
While kids are less likely to die from it, they are equally likely to become virus factories, which disproportionately kills the older people.

Protecting your kids protects your grandparents.

In Australia we've been told that the kids do not spread it the way they spread the flu. They are also more likely to catch it from adults than the reverse.

So they are not super spreaders of the virus.

 

[Tartansparkles]

Some stories of people in similar situations hit the news in the UK. One was of a female doctor who sent her two daughters to live with their aunt. Their reunion, after 9-12 weeks or so ended up on the news and even the news reader was in tears. Another was where two first responder parents sent their two year old to live with his gran. They saw him daily (through the front window) and had video chat breakfasts and bedtime stories. It can be done and different things work for different people. It's not a choice I would want to have to make.

 

[kenny]

Mellowyellowgirl posted, "In Australia we've been told that the kids do not spread it the way they spread the flu. They are also more likely to catch it from adults than the reverse.

So they are not super spreaders of the virus."

Well, if kids aren't super spreaders then it's okay.
Since they just are minor spreaders, that means fewer old farts die, so the ones that do die is perfectly fine.

So, feel free to have fun out there and give no thought about infecting your kids.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Well, if they're not super spreaders then it's okay if they just are minor spreaders and just a small number of old farts die.

Schools have opened across our entire country. We have not locked our children away to your liking and have been told to send our kids to school.

I'm not sure what you're worked up about. No one is doing anything illegal.

The OP is a first responder. She didn't ask if she could go clubbing and then home to cough on her kids. So I don't think she's having fun.

 

[Missy]

Yes.

My girlfriend did just that. She is a physician and she was needed to work with Covid patients despite it not being her specialty as she is an Ob/Gyn. Anyway, they needed her at the hospital and her husband is immunocompromised from cancer treatment 20 years ago. So he moved out and moved in with his mother and she lived alone for the 6 weeks (and 2 week quarantine after that) they needed her. It was necessary.

So if your loved ones are immunocompromised and at greater risk of Covid 19 complications yes that would be the prudent thing to do IMO.
If your loved ones do not have risk factors (ie diabetes, AI conditions, etc) then I would say just take reasonable precautions (protect yourself at work and shower and discard clothes before coming into contact with family etc) and no need to separate from them.

Thank you @Buttercookies for being on the frontlines and helping those in need.

 

[GliderPoss]

I would avoid contact with my elderly parents but otherwise just take sensible precautions at home like showering immediately upon return, extra cleaning etc.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Realistically you cant isolate yourself from your kids. I have thought about it a little, and I dont see how it is possible. The trauma you will end up putting on them is not viable. What you need to look at is who looks after your kids while you are a work. Not one of their grandparents right? And also does you husband have any health concerns, as he is the next person who you should be making plans for protecting.

Finally what happens if you get sick. Its inevitable that you'll at least get a cold. Youll be so sleep deprived by this stage that it wont be avoidable. So what happens if you get sick, do the babies automatically get dropped off with someone at this stage (again preferably not an elder relative) or will they remain with you.

Do the babies sleep without you? My two year old does not sleep without me. Does whomever else is a viable care giver know how to put them to sleep without you there? How to prepare a bottle for them (I guess as this is your second the answer is yes)? Does the 2 month old drink from a bottle? Will it drink formula (same goes for 18 month old). If you express milk how will you deal with the blocked ducts if you are split up from them. That kind of thing. All manageable but only if you've carefully planned it out ahead of time so it isnt a colossal mess if you just shut your door one day and dont come out. On that point if you are expressing milk what are your options to keep it hygienic before bringing it home for the little one to drink?

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Mellowyellowgirl posted, "In Australia we've been told that the kids do not spread it the way they spread the flu. They are also more likely to catch it from adults than the reverse.

So they are not super spreaders of the virus."

Well, if kids aren't super spreaders then it's okay.
Since they just are minor spreaders, that means fewer old farts die, so the ones that do die is perfectly fine.

So, feel free to have fun out there and give no thought about infecting your kids.

Its very confusing here as we have very low or no community transmission in this part of the world
i see so many different POV just from watching the news
Our scientific advisers don't all say the same thing (never mind the politicans)
All our deaths here in NZ have been people over 60, all unnecessary deaths if we had only closed the boarder sooner, tested people in quarantine, tested more people at the beginning of the pandemic arriving here, if people had thought more of others and not their own selfish needs
And a thousand other if onlys, this would also have saved so much public money

I do beleave going forward we must do every thing we can to protect our older and vaunarable people

I have had very little to do with kids since i was one but there was always that gross kid at school with the runny nose and no hanky
why do parents have to remind kids to wash their hands and to shower/ bath and brush their teeth - especially once they hit adolence - who wants a smelly or grubby girlfriend/ boyfriend ?

 

[chemgirl]

My cousin is an ER doctor with an 18 month old and she did isolate from her child for around 12 weeks. There are very few cases here now (we’re not in the US) and PPE is much easier to come by so she is easing up a bit. She still strips off her clothes on the back porch, puts her shoes through a UV sanitizing station, sprays down her car (and nobody but her goes in her car), washes her clothing separately, and showers as soon as she gets home.

She says she’ll adjust her behaviour as necessary and will isolate again if there is a second wave. She also hopes to get an antibody test since she was very sick in January and she had one patient who she suspects may have had COVID at that time.

@mellowyellowgirl it’s really interesting to hear Australia’s view on children spreading virus. We’re hearing the exact opposite from our health experts, but our schools were closed in early March and there is plans to modify (one day on, one day off) school in the fall so students can be separated. Also mandatory masking once school does resume. It will be interesting to pick through the data once this is all over and see who had it right.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Which country are you in @chemgirl?

Yes it is a free for all at school here now! They are resuming sports carnivals etc next term. They have been doing gymnastics at school. Zero social distancing (they preach it but in reality I know better, I have a feral 7yo who tells me who ate what from whose lunch etc).

It will be fascinating to see how this all plays out in terms of data in a years time.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Which country are you in @chemgirl?

Yes it is a free for all at school here now! They are resuming sports carnivals etc next term. They have been doing gymnastics at school. Zero social distancing (they preach it but in reality I know better, I have a feral 7yo who tells me who ate what from whose lunch etc).

It will be fascinating to see how this all plays out in terms of data in a years time.

Do the teachers at school drum home the hand washing and coughing sneezing into elbows message ?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Do the teachers at school drum home the hand washing and coughing sneezing into elbows message ?

Yes! That is one thing they do, do! They wash their hands a lot I've been told.

But they all sit next to each other, share food and eat things growing from the garden.

 

[OoohShiny]

I am going to be contrary to many, in that I think you should live life as normal but with a few added, non-burdensome precautions, such as stripping off when you walk in the door, having a quick shower perhaps, and maybe dedicating one room or one cupboard as a 'red zone' for your work gear (if you have a room/cupboard you could use).


As already mentioned, children are at extremely low risk of anything serious coming from a C19 infection.

The ONS statistics in the UK show that, to date, from a population of almost 16-million children under 19 in the UK (15,580,696 in 2018 ):

Overview of the UK population - Office for National Statistics

UK population continues to grow but at a slower rate than previously. 2018 mid-year population estimates showed the UK population reached 66.4 million, up from 66.0 million in mid-2017.

www.ons.gov.uk

only 20 have passed away in hospital:

Statistics » COVID-19 Daily Deaths

Health and high quality care for all, <br />now and for future generations

www.england.nhs.uk

(table: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statisti...D-19-total-announced-deaths-24-June-2020.xlsx)

0-19 - 20
20-39 - 208
40-59 - 2,215
60-79 - 10,804
80+ - 15,187



When you break it down further than that, only 1 single child under the age of 4 has been recorded as passing away from C19:

Deaths involving COVID-19 in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Provisional counts of the number of deaths and age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) between 1 March and 30 April 2020 in the UK.

www.ons.gov.uk

Table 2 on that link shows the number of deaths by all causes / the number of deaths from C19 / the rate of death per 100,000 population:

00-04 - 416 / 1 / 0
05-09 - 20 / 0 / 0
10-14 - 36 / 1 / 0
15-19 - 63 / 8 / 1.3

It is clear from that table that C19 is a very minor cause of death when compared to the deaths that have been recorded due to other causes, and the risk of death is effectively zero in 100,000.


Additionally, the table notes:

"10. Figures for deaths involving COVID-19 show the number of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19), based on any mention of COVID-19 on the death certificate."

It has been noted in other datasets (that I'm currently trying to find in my browser history...) that the majority of those children that have died have been suffering from comorbidities and long-term conditions. IIRC only 3 children under 19 have passed away with no known existing conditions, which decreases the risk figures for healthy children even further.



Is there a risk to children? Yes, of course, nothing is without risk.

BUT...

Is the risk great? No, the figures do not indicate this.

Is the risk great enough that it outweighs the damage that could be done by your children not seeing their mother, or only seeing her when she is dressed in scary, alien PPE, and seeming scared to hold them? Most certainly not, IMO.


C19 is pretty much an illness focusing on the elderly and those with comorbidities - those not falling into those groups largely have the effects of a minor cold at most, if they even feel any symptoms:

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Provisional counts of the number of deaths registered in England and Wales, including deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19), by age, sex and region, in the latest weeks for which data are available.

www.ons.gov.uk

(See section 4 - table of Deaths Registered by Age Group)


Is the risk of catching C19 a risk we will have to live with forever more unless the virus dies out by itself (as some others have done) or until we may get a vaccine (which, of course, may never happen)?

Yes, and IMVHO there needs to be a lot more effort taking place in the media and in government to contextualise the extremely low levels of risk for all age groups under 60 - unless, of course, the plan is to create an ongoing atmosphere of fear that would permit governments to increase control over their populations 'for their own good'....



If you and/or your children are in the BAME group;
if you have comorbidities (e.g. diabetes, obesity);
if you and/or your children are immunosuppressed for any reason;
if you and/or your children will have contact with family members with comorbidities and/or immunosuppression; ...

then the research to date suggests the risk to you/them is increased and you may wish to consider mitigation strategies, but if not, carry on as normal and just keep an eye out for any symptoms that may mean you need to self-isolate while you are at risk of spreading it.


All IMHO, of course but the data seems strong to my eyes.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I still find it a, a worry with grandchildren spending time with older grandparents

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Yes! That is one thing they do, do! They wash their hands a lot I've been told.

But they all sit next to each other, share food and eat things growing from the garden.

That's very good to hear about the handwashing

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I still find it a, a worry with grandchildren spending time with older grandparents

I can't speak for other social groups but in ours none of the kids see their grandparents. My friends don't believe in locking their kids up so they have kept their kids away from the grandparents to protect the older generation.

They (the kids) also don't go grocery shopping etc (which child wants to go grocery shopping anyway). So unless you are an elderly person, purposely stalking young children or you are seeing your grandkids because it's worth it to you, there is very little chance of catching anything off the kids.