Would you give up privacy for safety?

[missy]

Benjamin Franklin once said:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Of course he lived in a different time. There were no mobile phones, computers and technology was less mature.

Does our liberty require both privacy and safety?

Do you agree with Benjamin Franklin or would you give up privacy for safety?

If we keep advancing our communication methods doesn't privacy become even harder to protect?

 

[Tekate]

May I ask a question before answering Missy? and btw this is a GREAT question and made me think.

Do you mean just security on the internet or in my life? thank you sweetie!

eta: actually I think all the time but often I put my mouth in b4 REALLY thinking xo

 

[missy]

May I ask a question before answering Missy? and btw this is a GREAT question and made me think.

Do you mean just security on the internet or in my life? thank you sweetie!

Dear Kate the very Great ❤ Good question. I am going to allow you to interpret it as you would like to. I was thinking in general terms of our entire life. But it begins with small steps so really it’s all leading to the loss of privacy everywhere in our lives. The impetus for this question (though it’s been on my mind for a long time) is a series we started watching on Netflix. Each person had a private drone that watched them 24/7 but only machines watched the video so presumably privacy was preserved. Anyway an interesting issue and one that isn’t going away any time soon. Just more and more of a loss of privacy in general imo.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you @missy as you can see I chose giving up privacy for security, I almost chose both are equally important but for me that isn't an option because I believe we do have to give up one a bit for the other.

Now my reasons are because I'm a senior citizen, my health is decent but I have arthritis here there and everywhere I cannot react quickly enough, I do not think I could shoot a gun with an accuracy quickly enough, I don't think I could defend my self hand to hand, at this time I'm also a bit afraid of the military as the USA has become more nationalistic I'm sometimes concerned about coups (not my side ) if I were 30 again I know I would have answered never give up my privacy, but as I said, I don't know how well we could defend ourselves given our ages and physical impairments.. xoxoxoxo

 

[missy]

Thank you @missy as you can see I chose giving up privacy for security, I almost chose both are equally important but for me that isn't an option because I believe we do have to give up one a bit for the other.

Now my reasons are because I'm a senior citizen, my health is decent but I have arthritis here there and everywhere I cannot react quickly enough, I do not think I could shoot a gun with an accuracy quickly enough, I don't think I could defend my self hand to hand, at this time I'm also a bit afraid of the military as the USA has become more nationalistic I'm sometimes concerned about coups (not my side ) if I were 30 again I know I would have answered never give up my privacy, but as I said, I don't know how well we could defend ourselves given our ages and physical impairments.. xoxoxoxo

I haven’t voted yet but this is where I am leaning. For many reasons which I will go into at a later time. But it’s a sobering choice indeed.

 

[msop04]

There are a lot of variables here... as @Tekate asked, what form of safety? Also, giving up privacy to what degree?? Great question, @missy.

I'm happy to have my bags searched at an airport, if that means safer flights (it does). But I'm not willing to have my entire life monitored "for my security."

As with all things, I believe there has to be a balance.

 

[missy]

There are a lot of variables here... as @Tekate asked, what form of safety? Also, giving up privacy to what degree?? Great question, @missy.

I'm happy to have my bags searched at an airport, if that means safer flights (it does). But I'm not willing to have my entire life monitored "for my security."

As with all things, I believe there has to be a balance.

Yes I agree. But posing the question because let’s face it few things are equally balanced in life. So if you have to choose one direction or the other which would you choose? Loss of privacy to a degree for safety?

Which are you willing to give up more? Keeping your Privacy and losing safety or keeping safety over privacy? We live in a very imperfect world. If you have to choose what would you choose?

Both equally important but if one has to be sacrificed to so,e degree for the other which would you choose?

 

[lyra]

I've always had both, and always thought it was strongly related to the country where I was born.

 

[missy]

I've always had both, and always thought it was strongly related to the country where I was born.

Lyra, I’m sorry I don’t remember in what country you were born. Where were you born and what country do you live in now?

 

[telephone89]

Very interesting question! I recently travelled to S Korea to visit a friend, and they have cameras everywhere. Like every block, every store, etc. So I think that could be interpreted as minimal privacy. However it was insanely safe. No muggings, no car break ins, no robberies. My friend originally went there for university and recalled many stories of losing wallets/phones full of money and having them returned in full. Or people passing out on benches after a night of drinking and instead of being raped (hello brock turner), someone would put their jacket over them.
IMO that's how the future is going, but I'm not totally opposed to it.

 

[Arcadian]

Let me tell you what I fear. I fear we give up our liberty for safety. With liberty comes privacy. When you have a nanny state that dictates safety, you give up both liberty and privacy.

I don't want to be in a nanny state and we got sick of them telling us what to do, which is why we moved.

Live Free or Die. Its a very true statement.

 

[missy]

Let me tell you what I fear. I fear we give up our liberty for safety. With liberty comes privacy. When you have a nanny state that dictates safety, you give up both liberty and privacy.

I don't want to be in a nanny state and we got sick of them telling us what to do, which is why we moved.

Live Free or Die. Its a very true statement.

Yes. I see both sides. You are in the Ben Franklin camp. I say life has changed since he made that statement and wonder if today he would say the same.


@Arcadian what was the “nanny” state where you used to live?

 

[Austina]

I am absolutely not opposed to CCTV in large cities and towns, or in shops (but not changing rooms obviously), on public transport, airports, etc.

My philosophy is if I’m not doing anything wrong, then I have nothing to worry about. If having CCTV enables criminals to be more readily identified, then I’m all for it.

I have absolutely no issue with numerous security checks at the airport, I fly fairly frequently, and if I have to wait a few more minutes for extra security checks, that’s fine with me.

 

[Gussie]

And with the Patriot Act, they essentially "gave" us more security at the expense of individual rights. Are we safer? Are we less free?

9/11 was the excuse for the biggest power grab. It makes me ill.

 

[Arcadian]

Yes. I see both sides. You are in the Ben Franklin camp. I say life has changed since he made that statement and wonder if today he would say the same.


@Arcadian what was the “nanny” state where you used to live?

Massachusetts.

 

[missy]

Massachusetts.

Thanks. I have to read about Massachusetts re being a nanny state as I am not familiar with their laws. Many might say NY is a nanny state whe Bloomberg attempted banning sugary drinks in large sizes. Or getting rid of plastic bags starting March first. I guess it depends on our definition and what is important to us. I agree I don’t want nor like the government in our lives this much.

 

[lyra]

@missy The info is in my signature line. Maybe you can't see those on mobile? I'm Canadian.

 

[missy]

@missy The info is in my signature line. Maybe you can't see those on mobile? I'm Canadian.

Yes I am on my mobile and I can’t see it. But now of course I remember where you are lol. My memory Oy. Thanks @lyra

 

[dk168]

Another subject close to my heart.

Being born a Brit in one of its former colonies in 1960s, I was required to have an identity card from a young age. As technology advances, more security features are introduced and incorporated in the ID cards, such as finger print and retina scan etc...

Yet, and this BUGS ME, UK does not have an ID card system for its residents to this day, and every time this is brought up by whatever/whoever/etc., it got slammed down citing breach of privacy, etc. etc. etc...

Both security and privacy are equally important, however, I would rather we have good national security at the expense of some of my personal privacy.

I have always maintain that if one does not have anything to hide, one does not have anything to worry about.

DK

 

[missy]

Thinking about this some more and IMO you can't have 100 percent security and also have 100 percent privacy. And also IMO no one feels secure in a surveillance state. I think it comes down to liberty vs control rather than security vs privacy. Are we (Americans) too trusting of government when it comes to the exchange of liberty for safety? Do we really need to breach privacy in order to be secure? When we give someone the power to violet privacy it becomes vulnerable to abuse.

We need transparency. I do think while we cannot have a perfect balance we also cannot give up control over our privacy for what we think is security because I wonder if we are really getting complete security or just the appearance of it.

Just some musings this rainy afternoon.
Off now for a (safe and private I hope haha) walk with my dh.

 

[msop04]

Yes I agree. But posing the question because let’s face it few things are equally balanced in life. So if you have to choose one direction or the other which would you choose? Loss of privacy to a degree for safety?

Which are you willing to give up more? Keeping your Privacy and losing safety or keeping safety over privacy? We live in a very imperfect world. If you have to choose what would you choose?

Both equally important but if one has to be sacrificed to so,e degree for the other which would you choose?

Well, Americans have already given up privacy for safety, so I guess that's my answer. For me, the degree of safety would be directly proportional to the level of privacy I'd be willing to give up.

If in SUUUUUPERRRRRR DAAAAAANNNGGERRRR, then I'd give up a lot of privacy to guarantee my safety.

 

[redwood66]

Let me tell you what I fear. I fear we give up our liberty for safety. With liberty comes privacy. When you have a nanny state that dictates safety, you give up both liberty and privacy.

I don't want to be in a nanny state and we got sick of them telling us what to do, which is why we moved.

Live Free or Die. Its a very true statement.

This. Every day. My personal security is my own responsibility.

 

[voce]

I think it would depend on the relative ratio of the trade-off, i.e. how much security vs how much privacy. But I would only trade privacy for personal security and security of my loved ones. I would never, EVER trade it for "national security", as national security is too much at the whim of the government and it is in the interest of the government in some states to create perpetual national security problems so they'd never be out of work.

 

[Tekate]

@Arcadian I'm not getting what you are saying. When I think of nanny state I think of the conventional thoughts on socialism which is more about money and healthcare etc.

What do you mean by Liberty? right now in the USA we have life, liberty etc.. maybe you mean communism?

thanks Arcadian.. I'm okay with some privacy loss for security but unless fabricated I'm not too worried about someone coming in the night to take me to a gulag (yet anyway if we keep on this nationalism route then I will be afraid).

Let me tell you what I fear. I fear we give up our liberty for safety. With liberty comes privacy. When you have a nanny state that dictates safety, you give up both liberty and privacy.

I don't want to be in a nanny state and we got sick of them telling us what to do, which is why we moved.

Live Free or Die. Its a very true statement.

 

[doberman]

I fear that the internet has mangled any sense of privacy we may once have had, but instill value privacy over safety. And no one can guarantee safety. Anything can happen to anyone at any time.