Would you get GIA or AGL for colored gemstones?

[Probee]

I recently posted a thread regarding star ruby and was advised by kind and knowledgeable PSers to get a lab report. I tried to search the forum for previous threats regarding lab reports but wasn’t able to find the answer. Would there be an advantage to getting GIA or AGL? Both the same?

 

[Bron357]

I’d go with AGL, they are slightly better regarded for their coloured gem reports. GIA is better known for the diamonds.
and no, you don’t need both.
exciting.

 

[T L]

GIA for fancy colored diamonds and white diamond

AGL for every other gemstone under the sun.

 

[marymm]

^ ditto

 

[shinyrocks]

Definitely AGL for me for colored stones

 

[Probee]

Thank you @Bron357 @T L @marymm @shinyrocks! Would you tell me some of the reasons why you would go with AGL? I was watching YouTube and a guy said always always always go with GIA.

 

[shinyrocks]

Thank you @Bron357 @T L @marymm @shinyrocks! Would you tell me some of the reasons why you would go with AGL? I was watching YouTube and a guy said always always always go with GIA.

Colored stones are AGL's sole focus. AGL is to colored stones what GIA is to diamonds. GIA is perfectly fine and of course will do a suitable job, but AGL has made a name for themselves being one of the world leaders in that particular area. They also tend to be less expensive (depends on exactly what you're wanting a report on, weight, etc.). Ultimately though, while they are my preference, you can feel really good about sending your stone to either of these labs.

 

[T L]

All the major auction houses in the USA go with AGL for colored gems too. For example, when Liz Taylor’s gems were put up for auction, they were evaluated by AGL. It tends to also catch treatment that GIA sometimes misses.

YouTube is not the best source for gemstone education. The stuff I hear on there is awful! I also found a YouTuber that said the darker the tone of a gem, the better, and she is highly followed. She clearly doesn’t understand saturation.

 

[icy_jade]

GIA is more recognized internationally but having seen AGL reports, I do prefer the AGL report format and details provided

I think either is fine from a buyer perspective if you want to sell the ruby

 

[T L]

GIA is more recognized internationally but having seen AGL reports, I do prefer the AGL report format and details provided

I think either is fine from a buyer perspective if you want to sell the ruby

Yes....

The full AGL prestige report is the most comprehensive report for colored gems, and is scientifically based. Other labs use ridiculous metaphors to describe color/quality.

 

[ringo865]

I believe that AGL will issue findings on stones that are mounted in settings. So you wouldn’t have to unset and reset it to get a report.

 

[PieAreSquared]

All the major auction houses in the USA go with AGL for colored gems too. For example, when Liz Taylor’s gems were put up for auction, they were evaluated by AGL. It tends to also catch treatment that GIA sometimes misses.

Can you give me an example of treatment that GIA misses that AGL can detect? I know from personal experience that if you have a sapphire you want tested for BE treatment, AGL can't do it. They will send it to GIA.


For a report on a star ruby though, I can't imagine there is a huge difference between AGL or GIA, and I'd probably just go with the less expensive one.

 

[T L]

Unfortunately, the links in this thread no longer work, but they did at the time I posted this.

AGL identifies irradiated Colombian emeralds

http://www.aglgemlab.com/News/AGL%20IDENTIFIES%20IRRADIATED%20EMERALDS-3%20Jan%202012.pdf :nono: :errrr: ;(

www.pricescope.com

 

[T L]

AGL used a mass spectrometer to test my sapphire. It may be owned by GIA, but the fact that GIA couldn’t detect irradiation in emerald nor synthetic alexandrite, gives me pause.

 

[Probee]

For a report on a star ruby though, I can't imagine there is a huge difference between AGL or GIA, and I'd probably just go with the less expensive one.

I believe that AGL will issue findings on stones that are mounted in settings. So you wouldn’t have to unset and reset it to get a report.

The ruby is roughly 4ct

GIA identification $85 (loose or mounted).
"Contains a detailed description of the gemstone such as cutting style, shape, weight, measurement, and color, and includes a photograph of the gemstone."

GIA identification and origin $190 (loose or mounted)

Includes all information provided on the Identification Report plus geographic origin of the stone, if determinable.

AGL Identification (ID, enhancement) $160 loose $180 mounted

AGL Origin (ID, enhancement, origin) $390 loose $445 mounted

It'll be mainly for my personal use and potentially insurance purpose if it's substantial in value. Any thoughts on which of these three choices?

GIA ID versus GIA ID & origin versus AGL ID (origin for $390 is a bit steep).

It's likely from Vietnam as that's where it was bought 20 so years ago. Probably no heat enhancement because of the rutile present. Likely natural due to some inclusions on the back.

 

[Arcadian]

Maybe a list can be built for which labs can test for BE.

From my understanding is AGL could do so.
GIT can (or could) and GRS also can. Not sure about other labs (does LOTUS check?)

 

[Probee]

Maybe a list can be built for which labs can test for BE.

From my understanding is AGL could do so.
GIT can (or could) and GRS also can. Not sure about other labs (does LOTUS check?)

what’s BE?

 

[PieAreSquared]

Unfortunately, the links in this thread no longer work, but they did at the time I posted this.

AGL identifies irradiated Colombian emeralds

http://www.aglgemlab.com/News/AGL%20IDENTIFIES%20IRRADIATED%20EMERALDS-3%20Jan%202012.pdf :nono: :errrr: ;(

www.pricescope.com

Judging from AGL's latest press release, where they claimed to have "discovered" the color instability of certain sapphires (that someone else had actually discovered several years before them) its probably a good thing the thread for their previous press release is no longer working.

AGL used a mass spectrometer to test my sapphire. It may be owned by GIA, but the fact that GIA couldn’t detect irradiation in emerald nor synthetic alexandrite, gives me pause.

The fact that one lab has to send my sapphire to another lab to use their lab equipment gives me even bigger pause...


"BE" is beryllium treatment.
For $85 I would go with the basic report, since you already know it is likely from Vietnam. I doubt the origin report would be worth the extra charge.

 

[T L]

The fact that one lab has to send my sapphire to another lab to use their lab equipment gives me even bigger pause...

Why? As long as they know what equipment is necessary, why can’t they borrow it? A mass spectrometer is very expensive. Not all labs own one. I’m actually happy that Chris Smith of AGL told me he couldn’t diagnostically test for diffusion on this particular sapphire, and it would require a mass spectrometer. I rather have that scenario than someone saying it’s not diffused or inconclusive.

 

[voce]

Knowledge is more important than owning a piece of equipment. No other lab besides AGL does a colored gemstone grading report. I think if you pay full price you get a lot more honest feedback on the quality of a colored stone with AGL, than you could ever get with GIA reports, which tell you little more than the origin.

 

[ChaiK]

I prefer AGL.

I think if it is a ruby, GIA or AGL should be ok.

But if you are going to certify say a paraiba or mozambique tourmaline or a tsavorite, you get a lot more information from AGL.

I am quite sick of GIA stating "scan QR code for more information" and within that information GIA tells you that colour origin cannot be determined because of various other factors, such as irradiation, dyeing, heat etc. That's somehow does not sit right because I would like to know is it heat? Or irradiation? And GIA does this for all the tourmalines and demantoids, as if to imply irradiation for the blue tourmalines and demantoids.

Even GRS will tell you if heated or not for a blue tourmaline. GIA just takes a mass approach towards these tourmalines and demantiods, regardless. It is not quite good to have paid for a certificate with GIA and not be told.

Nowadays, GIA also leaves the treatment status for the tsavorites blank. They don't state anything for it. Just blank. They tell you it is a tsavorite. And no other comments on treatment.


This is what you get for a tourmaline or a demantoid report when you click on the link GIA provides for Scan QR Code for further information:


Many gemstones are routinely treated by different methods to improve their colour or appearance. In some cases, treatments like heating and irradiation cannot be detected

Heat treatment
A wide range of gem materials may be subjected to low temperature heat treatment to improve or change the colour of the stone. It is also possible for this heating process to occur naturally when the gemstone is in the earth. To determine if the heating was done by man (as a treatment) vs. heating by nature may be difficult if not impossible.

Irradiation
Some gem materials may be subjected to irradiation to improve or change the colour of the stone. Generally, there is no residual radioactivity left in such stones. These same gemstones may be naturally irradiated in the earth over a long period of time. To determine if the irradiation was done by man—as a treatment—or by nature is usually not possible with today’s testing methods.

THE LIST BELOW contains those gem materials that may be subjected to heating or irradiation. The frequency of these treatments for any given material ranges from occasionally—red tourmaline—to almost always—tanzanite. This isn’t intended to be a comprehensive list. Other gemstones might also be treated but these are the most significant.

Except, there is no list below or any such link to THE LIST BELOW.

 

[Probee]

Wow, that is a lot of good advice and wealth of knowledge. I’m learning so much already. Thank you all so much!!!

I’m comparing GIA ID for $85 to AGL ID for $160 and not able to discern much difference between them. I do like the look of the AGL report. It’s quite fancy. In my case with the star ruby / star sapphire, I’m not sure if the information offer by either lab would be different though. I’m leaning toward AGL but not sure if it’s worth twice the cost.

 

[prs]

The auction houses send their jade pieces to GIA or Mason-Kay. I have never seen an AGL cert for jade.

 

[T L]

Nowadays, GIA also leaves the treatment status for the tsavorites blank. They don't state anything for it. Just blank. They tell you it is a tsavorite. And no other comments on treatment.

Garnets and tourmaline, as well as other gems, are more routinely clarity enhanced, so that’s not acceptable.

 

[voce]

@Probee in your case, I'd get GIA for your star ruby, since star gems are untreated if they're natural, and in your particular case, you just need the gem to ID as natural, without a need to know origin or treatments.

The way you posed the question, it could pertain to any number of colored gems.

I think @prs makes a good point about jade. I would say this: I prefer AGL for faceted crystalline gems. AGL Grading Report is unmatched by anything from GIA. AGL's grading system about brilliance and cut only works for faceted crystalline gems, so if you have cabs or jade, you should just go GIA if that's cheaper.

 

[T L]

So if I were to buy a very expensive piece of fine imperial jadeite, wouldn’t the AGL full grading report be preferable to GIA?

Also, is jadeite ever treated, little like dyed or clarity enhanced? Does GIA disclose those treatments?

 

[voce]

So if I were to buy a very expensive piece of fine imperial jadeite, wouldn’t the AGL full grading report be preferable to GIA?

Also, is jadeite ever treated, little like dyed or clarity enhanced? Does GIA disclose those treatments?

Can't speak to the GIA reports, since I don't have those for jade, bigger do I have much jade in my collection. However, those things in the AGL full grading report such as clarity, cut, and brilliance are not applicable to jade, which is not a crystal and cannot be graded as such. I also haven't seen an AGL report for jade, so I do have doubts about who ever submits jade to AGL to grade and whether AGL has good experience with jade to grade the overall quality rating accurately.

 

[Arcadian]

Realizing I never answered the question, I think it depends on where you are. In general being in the US I recommend and have lots of AGL reports. I have purchased from Asia so will have GIT as well. Also I have a single GRS. I quite believe that GRS is highly regarded in Europe and Asia.

In my view they all have merit.

That said,they have made mistakes in grading because frankly it was human error. I don't think its intentional, slipups happen and its how they go about correcting the slipup that makes me take notice.

In my personal view, all top tier labs carry weight in different ways. GIA moreso for diamonds and possibly sapphires. Rubies that I've seen tend to be either AGL or GRS (not sure why but there you are) most other colored stones seem to be AGL or other labs. I think that we can't discount the labs in Asia (I don't know what all of them are) but some seem to be pretty darn good.

@voce, would one of the aisian centric labs do jade moreso than GIA you think? I remember seeinng a GIA reports for coral and pearls, so I know they can do non crystal gems. AGL has done reports for coral and turquoise so they possibly will do jade too. Maybe a phone call would get an answer you think?

 

[PieAreSquared]

Why? As long as they know what equipment is necessary, why can’t they borrow it? A mass spectrometer is very expensive. Not all labs own one. I’m actually happy that Chris Smith of AGL told me he couldn’t diagnostically test for diffusion on this particular sapphire, and it would require a mass spectrometer. I rather have that scenario than someone saying it’s not diffused or inconclusive.

"Borrow" equipment? You make it sound like GIA loans it out.
All he would do is send it off to GIA and use their report. All he would "borrow" is their expertise, then tack on his own charge and send you GIA's findings in his report.
Why would I take the long way round if I could just get it straight from GIA and only pay one lab, not two?

 

[voce]

@voce, would one of the aisian centric labs do jade moreso than GIA you think? I remember seeinng a GIA reports for coral and pearls, so I know they can do non crystal gems. AGL has done reports for coral and turquoise so they possibly will do jade too. Maybe a phone call would get an answer you think?

I regard Lotus Gemology very highly. Other than that of course GRS. I would also based on word of mouth trust Nanyang lab in Singapore.