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Would you consider a RB with a lot of twinning wisps if it was AGS 000?

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rainierinspring

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Mar 11, 2009
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I am considering a G SI2 that has a lot of twinning wisps........I''m very leary. I''ve been told it is absolutely eye clean face up, but not from the sides all around. Opinions?
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Thanks!
 
I've read/heard that twinning wisps are some of the best inclusions to have. In fact, here's a response on an SI2 with TW, from a master. (Brian Gavin)
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https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/s-2-clarity-be-honest-with-me-please.82362/page-2


Now, for the SI2 clarity. He said that this stone had twinning wisps. He said that they are the best inclusions to have when purchasing an SI2 diamond and there is no durabilty issue with twinning wisps. Under close scrutiny, they appear as tiny spider web threads. He told me he found the stone to be eye clean, but then when he called someone else to look at it, she said that she could see something at 8 inches or so from her eyes. Again, he said it was like a thin white spidery line, not like a feather at all which is more in your face and abrupt, I suppose.

Does this help? Only you can decide!
 
Personally SI2, especially in larger sizes, is a nightmare.

Wisps can reduce light performance, especially in fancy shapes where there can be more bouncing around.

I prefer honest decent inclusions - say 3 or 4 that are eye clean, but smaller and congested, preferably black because they are graded harder by labs - or a larger mass near the edge where aprong can hide it. The prong need not totally cover the inclusions as the refelction of the prong also conceals stuff.
 
Clear as mud now!
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Thanks Garry. That was very helpful!
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You know, maybe it''s because it''s late, I''ve had a long week, and I''m worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I''m just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they''ve asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I''ll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
 
Date: 5/15/2009 9:32:59 PM
Author: Ellen
You know, maybe it''s because it''s late, I''ve had a long week, and I''m worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I''m just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they''ve asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I''ll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
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Ellen, take care of yourself. Hope you have a restful weekend. PS wouldnt be the same without you!
 
Date: 5/15/2009 9:32:59 PM
Author: Ellen
You know, maybe it''s because it''s late, I''ve had a long week, and I''m worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I''m just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they''ve asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I''ll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
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Yes it was Ellen.
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You do so much to help people on PS. I know what you do, and so do countless other''s. An apology is in order methinks....

OP, I am sorry for this threadjack. I hope you find the right diamond, twining wisps or not. I don''t know much about them, so will bow out now. Best of luck to you!!!
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Date: 5/15/2009 9:41:22 PM
Author: Kaleigh



Date: 5/15/2009 9:32:59 PM
Author: Ellen
You know, maybe it's because it's late, I've had a long week, and I'm worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I'm just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they've asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I'll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
Click to expand...
Yes it was Ellen.
29.gif
You do so much to help people on PS. I know what you do, and so do countless other's. An apology is in order methinks....

OP, I am sorry for this threadjack. I hope you find the right diamond, twining wisps or not. I don't know much about them, so will bow out now. Best of luck to you!!!
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Click to expand...
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It really was. Garry, is it just me or do you have some sort of vendetta against Brian and towards Paul from Infinity too (something I've noticed from your recent posts). Both of whom are the only 'real' diamond cutters who post on here. Do you not like cutters or is it something personal? I'd really like to know.
 
Date: 5/15/2009 5:40:03 PM
Author:rainierinspring
I am considering a G SI2 that has a lot of twinning wisps........I'm very leary. I've been told it is absolutely eye clean face up, but not from the sides all around. Opinions?
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Thanks!
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If you're very leary, I wouldn't do it. I'd raise the clarity, even if I had to lower the size and/or color, if it were me.
 
No one can tell if a twinning wisp is an issue for sure without looking at the stone is person.
Often there is no issue.

I have personally seen it where the report was covered with lines and the diamond had no issues and was awesome.
I have seen another where the report had one small line and it clearly interfered with the light return of the diamond.
They can also be a sign of strain in a diamond which opens another can of worms.

There is no clear consensus in the trade.

The proper advise is to have them looked at by a trusted expert.
If Brian clears it then I would have no problem buying one.
They can lead to excellent values when selected by an expert eye that knows what to look for in a diamond with them.
That is why Brian and Jon and several other experts like them.
 
Date: 5/15/2009 10:12:44 PM
Author: strmrdr
No one can tell if a twinning wisp is an issue for sure without looking at the stone is person.
Often there is no issue.

I have personally seen it where the report was covered with lines and the diamond had no issues and was awesome.
I have seen another where the report had one small line and it clearly interfered with the light return of the diamond.
They can also be a sign of strain in a diamond which opens another can of worms.

There is no clear consensus in the trade.

The proper advise is to have them looked at by a trusted expert.
If Brian clears it then I would have no problem buying one.
They can lead to excellent values when selected by an expert eye that knows what to look for in a diamond with them.
That is why Brian and Jon and several other experts like them.
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Thanks Karl. Great explanation as always.
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Date: 5/15/2009 10:15:19 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Thanks Karl. Great explanation as always.
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Your welcome.
This one of those issues that is hard because our experts disagree.
I have listened to all sides and the above is my informed opinion on the issue as well as personal experience.
 

Gypsy, was the comment for Garry or the OP?

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I took it to be the OP. By the way I forgot to post on your thread that I adore your new pendant! Even the wax up was beautiful!
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You did a fantastic job!


Ellen, You’re always so helpful and kind! I hope your Mom is doing okay.


***Sorry for the threadjack!
 
HI Heb, thank you very much for your comments on my pendant, I love it.

My comment was for Garry, not the OP. Thank you for clarifying.

Storm thank you for stepping in to help out. That helped a lot.
 
Date: 5/15/2009 9:32:59 PM
Author: Ellen
You know, maybe it''s because it''s late, I''ve had a long week, and I''m worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I''m just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they''ve asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I''ll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
Click to expand...

I am really sorry Ellen, I had no desire to upset you are anyone else.
I have an opinion.
In fairness I have not seen pictures of the stone Brian was referring to - I opened the link and there were about 50 posts and no images on that page - it might help if I knew what Brian was referring to?
And as for Paul, we rarely agree, but we have lots of online, offline and bar room brawls, but we are frends and we genuinely look for different points of view in our what might sometimes seem like wars. I have softened my abruptness from 10 down to beryl hardness
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I stand by my advice, but we do not have much info - for example is it a 1/2ct or a 3ct stone? Totally dfferent situation.
 
style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 81px">Date: 5/15/2009 10:54:45 PM
Author: Gypsy
HI Heb, thank you very much for your comments on my pendant, I love it.

My comment was for Garry, not the OP. Thank you for clarifying.

Storm thank you for stepping in to help out. That helped a lot.
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Oops, I meant Ellen''s comment, not yours, sorry!
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Date: 5/15/2009 11:03:55 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)




Date: 5/15/2009 9:32:59 PM
Author: Ellen
You know, maybe it's because it's late, I've had a long week, and I'm worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I'm just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they've asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I'll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
Click to expand...





I am really sorry Ellen, I had no desire to upset you are anyone else.
I have an opinion.
In fairness I have not seen pictures of the stone Brian was referring to - I opened the link and there were about 50 posts and no images on that page - it might help if I knew what Brian was referring to?




And as for Paul, we rarely agree, but we have lots of online, offline and bar room brawls, but we are frends and we genuinely look for different points of view in our what might sometimes seem like wars. I have softened my abruptness from 10 down to beryl hardness
2.gif


I stand by my advice, but we do not have much info - for example is it a 1/2ct or a 3ct stone? Totally dfferent situation.
Click to expand...
Not Ellen, but wanted to say... Garry if I had a dollar for every thread where you put us credible posters down with your snarky remarks, I'd buy one heck of diamond from Brian ... I have been here for almost 5 years and have never been treated nicely by you. Play nice play fair. Your words speak volumes, and are long lasting. I know you are a good person. I know you don't mean any harm. But does the lurker that doesn't know you, know that? Just something to think about....
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Peace out. Lisa
 
Date: 5/16/2009 12:30:20 AM
Author: Kaleigh


Date: 5/15/2009 11:03:55 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)





Date: 5/15/2009 9:32:59 PM
Author: Ellen
You know, maybe it's because it's late, I've had a long week, and I'm worn out from taking care of my mother. Or maybe, I'm just tired of taking the time to help find someone some info after they've asked for help, (by a 5th generation diamond cutter no less), only to be totally ignored and feel as if I had never posted here. I'll preface this by saying, I have never, in almost 3 1/2 years, said this to a poster.


That was really rude.
Click to expand...






I am really sorry Ellen, I had no desire to upset you are anyone else.
I have an opinion.
In fairness I have not seen pictures of the stone Brian was referring to - I opened the link and there were about 50 posts and no images on that page - it might help if I knew what Brian was referring to?





And as for Paul, we rarely agree, but we have lots of online, offline and bar room brawls, but we are frends and we genuinely look for different points of view in our what might sometimes seem like wars. I have softened my abruptness from 10 down to beryl hardness
2.gif


I stand by my advice, but we do not have much info - for example is it a 1/2ct or a 3ct stone? Totally dfferent situation.
Click to expand...
Not Ellen, but wanted to say... Garry if I had a dollar for every thread where you put us credible posters down with your snarky remarks, I'd buy one heck of diamond from Brian ... I have been here for almost 5 years and have never been treated nicely by you. Play nice play fair. Your words speak volumes, and are long lasting. I know you are a good person. I know you don't mean any harm. But does the lurker that doesn't know you? know that? Just something to think about....
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Peace out. Lisa
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I'm just going to walk around dittoing Kaleigh today apparently. Garry, I appreciate you addressing my remarks and the fact that you have an offline relationship with Paul, or anyone else for that matter. But that context is missing when lurkers or newbies, and even long time posters, read your posts. And as a member who represents the trade you do yourself, this site and its members a disservice when you treat this place like a bar room for a brawl. Because it isn't. You have a very good viewpoint, a lot of talent, and experience to impart and I'd hate for that to get lost because of the tone it's delivered in. Sometimes honey is better than vinegar... and emeralds are better than diamonds. It's a matter of the context. Best regards, Layla
 
Date: 5/15/2009 11:03:55 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

I am really sorry Ellen, I had no desire to upset you are anyone else.
I have an opinion.
In fairness I have not seen pictures of the stone Brian was referring to - I opened the link and there were about 50 posts and no images on that page - it might help if I knew what Brian was referring to?





I stand by my advice, but we do not have much info - for example is it a 1/2ct or a 3ct stone? Totally dfferent situation.
Click to expand...
Gary, no need to apologize, I know you have you're opinions. I should have been clearer I guess. My response was actually to the OP, who managed to thank you, and not me. While she/he may have preferred your answer, or felt mine wasn't adequate or whatever, a thank you to both of us would have been the courteous thing to do. It gets kind of old, and irritating to feel as if you never took the time to answer someone.
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I always wonder if these people do this in real life....


I must say, it's been interesting to see how others perceived the whole thing though!
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And thank you all!
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(heb gets a cookie!)
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Wow. I just came online.........I had no idea. Ellen, I am soooooo sorry to have offended you. It was an innocent mistake on my part to thank Garry and not you. I find your posts incredibly helpful. Getting conflicting information is difficult to say the least, and I have been looking at diamonds nonstop for almost 2 weeks. My first choice is to buy from Brian.........but so far they can''t come up with what I am looking for and I don''t know if I want to wait as long as it might take.

Ellen, please accept my SINCERE apology. I never intended to ignore you........just was hurrying I guess and forgot to thank you. I know you are a great help to many people and are appreciated for all your hard work.

Thank you.
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Thanks rainier, I hope you find what you''re looking for.
 
I''ve seen twinning wisps that look "major" on paper but not visible to the naked eye.
It must be decided on a case by case basis and an expert should really see the stone in person.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 
What size stone are you looking for?

(and my answer would be no to your original question
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...I like eyeclean from the sides, too)
 
Date: 5/15/2009 8:58:34 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Personally SI2, especially in larger sizes, is a nightmare.


Wisps can reduce light performance, especially in fancy shapes where there can be more bouncing around.


I prefer honest decent inclusions - say 3 or 4 that are eye clean, but smaller and congested, preferably black because they are graded harder by labs - or a larger mass near the edge where aprong can hide it. The prong need not totally cover the inclusions as the refelction of the prong also conceals stuff.
Click to expand...

I agree with Garry... I have a tiny black inclusion that is facup eye clean... I prefer it because I know I am getting the best light performance and nothing else is interfering.
 
Date: 5/16/2009 9:46:59 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
What size stone are you looking for?

(and my answer would be no to your original question
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...I like eyeclean from the sides, too)
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Ditto. And if you prefer to buy from Brian then just be patient, they will find you what you like.
 
If the diamond is an AGS000 and has twinning wisps (or any other inclusions), doesn''t the AGS rating give us the answer about light performance (or am I wrong here)?
 
Date: 5/16/2009 4:01:29 PM
Author: shelleydog
If the diamond is an AGS000 and has twinning wisps (or any other inclusions), doesn''t the AGS rating give us the answer about light performance (or am I wrong here)?
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AGS could scan a black diamond that meets their ideal 3D model and the software would give it AGS 0 for light performance.
(of course they would not give it the report, but to my knowledge AGS do not treat transperency any differently than GIA - it is graded via a clarity downgrade - I have seen a cloudy GIA SI1 stone recently that made me feel sad for its eventual owner)
 
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