would you buy a Toyota car today ...

[Clio]

We have a Sienna and a Lexus now, and we''ve been quite happy. If we were in the market for another car, I would definitely consider another Toyota, though I would be looking at other makes as well. It''s always good to keep your options open.

(San Diego Lady, we also had an ''02 4 Runner, and I loved that car so much. I was heartbroken when a woman rear ended my husband going 50 and totaled it)

 

[kama_s]

I would purchase a Toyota, without a doubt.

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

Yes - my Corolla has been very good to me.

I believe by the time I am looking to buy a new car Toyota will be even better than they are now - my only concern would be how much more they may cost.

I have not ruled Honda out - many people are very satisfied with their Hondas for the same reasons I love my Corolla.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

KTF the nice thing about mainstream (non-luxury) makers is that they''re offering huge deals and incentives on their stock. I got my 09 Camry for a steal at Boch in Attleboro.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/25/2010 8:34:03 PM
Author: Keepingthefaith21
Yes - my Corolla has been very good to me.

I believe by the time I am looking to buy a new car Toyota will be even better than they are now - my only concern would be how much more they may cost.

I have not ruled Honda out - many people are very satisfied with their Hondas for the same reasons I love my Corolla.

prices had not risen on Toyota cars in the past 10 yrs.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Dancing Fire, I have the 350 ES - is this the model you have or is it the IS?

 

[doodle]

Absolutely. DH and I both have Toyotas, both love ''em, and I like that both of our cars were made in the USA so I don''t feel too bad about having foreign cars. Here''s an article about auto recall history for those who are interested: link. Like lyra, I seriously think the Toyota stuff has been hyped up just because it''s convenient for domestic car companies to leap on it while some of their biggest competition is down.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/25/2010 8:50:01 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
Dancing Fire, I have the 350 ES - is this the model you have or is it the IS?

wife drives the IS 350. i drive a 2001 Toyota truck

but a nice lady promised to buy me a LS 460 when she hits the lotto.

 

[chiquitapet]

Date: 2/25/2010 4:16:47 PM
Author: waterlilly
absolutely. i would have zero problem buying a toyota right now.

Yep, same here. I have a 2000 Rav4 and love it. Can''t wait to get a new model.

 

[Imdanny]

I''m watching the situation. At the present time, my answer is no.

 

[ksinger]

I own a 2007 Camry.

It's not that I'm so naive that I think cars never have problems, it's the way that Toyota has been handling this that gets my dander up. They repeatedly blamed those floor mats, or operator error, for the problem. How they've supressed the reports and how they treated those reporting them over the years, has been pretty shoddy. The internal memos from Toyota, trumpeting a WIN in getting NHTSA to agree to a very limited floor mat recall, and how it saved them hundreds of millions, were pretty sickening, in my book. Toyota only stopping sales after finally being threatened by NHTSA, was not very attractive either. They only did the right thing under duress. And Lentz, in congressional testimony, said that they were 100% certain that the issue wasn't electronics and then in the next breath says that they are offering a computer patch that will "allow" the brakes to override the throttle, and how this shows that Toyota goes above and beyond to assure confidence. (Notice he doesn't assure safety, just confidence, which is, I suppose, all that is actually necessary to sell cars) It's not, says he and "integral part of the recall" - it doesn't FIX anything really - but it offers extra "confidence" that you can stop your carreening car at least.

Then he turns around and basically admits that this shim is probably not going to address the issue entirely and that they don't have a clue what the problem is,.....BUT.....it's absolutely NOT the electronics.

They're still trying to weasel out of it. By steadfastly refusing to even countenance that the issue is electrical or software related, they are making it much harder to address the likely cause.

And NHTSA, let's not forget their bit in all of this. They've repeatedly shown a willingness to uncritically accept the low-hanging fruit explanation presented to them. They do not in fact, even have one single electrical or software engineer on staff.

I buy my cars with an eye to keeping them at least 10 years, so now, every time I get in my car, there is going to be the tiny little nagging thought that today might be the day MY car goes apeshit in the 8 o'clock traffic. So no, I'm NOT a happy camper, and won't be until I think that Toyota "gets it" and they actually find and address the real problem.

Right now, I would certainly not buy a another Toyota. Maybe some year down the road, but not now.


ETA - here's a fun article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/22/AR2010022204887.html

and this one's even better
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=9950797

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Ksinger, it was actually your comments elsewhere that really got me thinking about and planning a course of action should it happen to me. In fact, this morning on my way to work I was checking all of the medians to see where I could pull off the road if something happened. I don''t want to always be in fear while I''m driving, but this latest thing-the not being able to stop the car even with putting it in neutral, etc is effing scary! I need to have a car for day-to-day driving. I''m not in a position where I can buy a new car (new new, or new to me) and I truly do love my Camry. I just feel like I''m between a rock and a hard place and no one is providing true guidance on what to do in the event you have an issue. I''ve just been told to wait until I hear from Toyota.

 

[Pandora II]

We have a ''08 Prius - which we lose today as DH is changing job...

We weren''t sure what to expect when we first got the car and were really impressed. I love the Prius!

The new company have given us a Mazda for the next 6 months (probation period) after which we will DEFINITELY get the new Prius. Should be safer than ever I reckon!

 

[purselover]

No but not because of their recent problems DH and I just prefer other brands.

 

[Shoopy]

I''ve done supply chain/supply quality audits in the past for various companies. You will not believe the stories I have heard about suppliers that provide you with the foods you eat every day, what distributors do, what is being done in factories, etc.

I guarantee you''ll never eat, drive, or purchase anything ever again if you knew what was going on in the background of ALL companies.

 

[february2003bride]

We have a 2005 Toyota Sienna that we love and plan to keep until it dies. That being said, if I was looking today I probably would take a second look at other minivans given what is going on with Toyota. However I do keep in mind that no automanufacturer is immune to recalls. We have a 2003 VW Passat that has had several recalls, some serious. DH is a Honda guy and they just had a recall of 400,000 cars over airbags. I''m not so much concerned what the recall is about but how the company handles it. Given how Toyota has handled this, that bothers me and makes me question whether I will buy from them again. I had a Ford Escort that I loved but didn''t look at Ford again after how they handled the Ford Explorer roll over incidents.

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

Date: 2/25/2010 8:45:58 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/25/2010 8:34:03 PM
Author: Keepingthefaith21
Yes - my Corolla has been very good to me.

I believe by the time I am looking to buy a new car Toyota will be even better than they are now - my only concern would be how much more they may cost.

I have not ruled Honda out - many people are very satisfied with their Hondas for the same reasons I love my Corolla.

prices had not risen on Toyota cars in the past 10 yrs.

I know they are pretty stable BUT this recent series of events has me pondering if there will be a significant cost increase within a few years. I guess I am curious if the recall coupled with consumer doubt will force Toyota to increate their prices while decreasing their production. I would hope for it to be the exact opposit but hope never gets me very far these days.

For now my 2005 Corolla is humming along rather nicely. I never consider buying unless my repair costs are constant and far surpassing the value of my car. I like my oldie but goodie right now

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/26/2010 1:32:42 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 2/25/2010 1:18:05 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/25/2010 12:36:38 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 2/25/2010 12:31:53 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
couple months ago we got a notice from Lexus about a carpet problem with my wife''s car,but now i''m starting to think it is an electronic problem.

The 24 year vetran CHP officer and his family were killed here in my town due to this and the fact the officer couldn''t shut the car down. It was a very sad, heartbreaking day. I believe DF, that its a combination of both.

i just call Lexus and they say it is only a carpet problem with our model,and that we should get a notice soon on how they''ll take care of it.

That''s what they said while the accident investigation was going on as well, however that didn''t explain why the officer couldn''t shut down the car or get it to change into a lower gear when they hit 125mph and the end of the road where they finally crashed. The investigation concluded that it was a combination of both the carpet getting stuck under the gas & brake pedals and the inability to downshift or shut the vehicle off. He attempted everything possible. *eta, he was driving a Lexus.

Its odd, in our 4Runner, the carpet is held in place by a small plastic hook. I cannot fathom as to why this isn''t standard in all the vehicles.

had already told my wife and daughters (daughters drive Civics) to shift into N in case it happens.

 

[doodle]

Date: 2/26/2010 1:32:42 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 2/25/2010 1:18:05 PM

SDL, I just had this exact same conversation with my mother yesterday--doesn''t really make sense to me!

 

[MissMina]

Yes definitely
We have a Prius and a Corolla and love them both.
Our neighbors ahve a Sienna and a Prius.
We''re all big fans.

 

[loriken214]

YES! We have a 2002 Highlander with 150K miles on it and a 2007 Camry Hybrid with 44K miles on it. Both of our cars were made in Japan and were some of the first of their kind in our area. We''ve been very pleased with both cars.

DH and I are looking at the new Highlander and may be buying one in the next year or so.

Lori

 

[pennquaker09]

If I were asked this in the past, I would be a total 100% yes, but as of right now, I''m kind of jumping on the Ford wagon. It doesn''t have anything to do with Toyota''s recent troubles. I think all manufacturers have an issue at some point, so I don''t see why Toyota and Honda would be immune.

Maybe it''s just me, but I feel like Toyota has been really unoriginal with the design of their cars. I think the Camry is sort of becoming the new Ford Taurus, it''s just so . . . BORING. And, I''m sorry, but the only eye appealing Honda is the Accord, but that may be because they "borrowed" some ideas from BMW (and maybe Nissan?).

Again, this might just be me, but I think Ford is designing better cars. I want to stress that I''m just talking about sedans, Toyota still has the 4Runner and it''s the best mid-sized SUV on the market. Even though the new one of kind of blocky. Kind of makes me think it''s a transformer, but it''s still a great SUV. My first car was a 4Runner, but I promise I''m not biased. Anyway, I think the RAV4 is also kind of cute. It''s a million times better looking that the CR-V. I don''t understand for the life of me how it became the top selling SUV.

I guess if I were going to buy a normal (as in non-luxury) mid-sized sedan, it would be Ford Fusion. I think Hybrid vehicles would be considered low tier luxury (not everyone can spend $30K) on a car, but it that were not the case, I would totally buy a Fusion Hybrid.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 2/28/2010 6:54:14 AM
Author: pennquaker09
If I were asked this in the past, I would be a total 100% yes, but as of right now, I''m kind of jumping on the Ford wagon. It doesn''t have anything to do with Toyota''s recent troubles. I think all manufacturers have an issue at some point, so I don''t see why Toyota and Honda would be immune.

Maybe it''s just me, but I feel like Toyota has been really unoriginal with the design of their cars. I think the Camry is sort of becoming the new Ford Taurus, it''s just so . . . BORING. And, I''m sorry, but the only eye appealing Honda is the Accord, but that may be because they ''borrowed'' some ideas from BMW (and maybe Nissan?).

Again, this might just be me, but I think Ford is designing better cars. I want to stress that I''m just talking about sedans, Toyota still has the 4Runner and it''s the best mid-sized SUV on the market. Even though the new one of kind of blocky. Kind of makes me think it''s a transformer, but it''s still a great SUV. My first car was a 4Runner, but I promise I''m not biased. Anyway, I think the RAV4 is also kind of cute. It''s a million times better looking that the CR-V. I don''t understand for the life of me how it became the top selling SUV.

I guess if I were going to buy a normal (as in non-luxury) mid-sized sedan, it would be Ford Fusion. I think Hybrid vehicles would be considered low tier luxury (not everyone can spend $30K) on a car, but it that were not the case, I would totally buy a Fusion Hybrid.

Boring?? How can you say that a car that might careen out of control at any moment is BORING??

You sound like my husband. He thinks my Camry is an absolute snoozer, but I didn''t pick it for style, but for other considerations. It IS middle of the road I agree. But it is a really really fine road car for long trips, has really ergonomically designed controls, and by far the best driver''s seat I''ve ever put my aching back in.

Well, yesterday, I took my car in and they did all the "stuff" to it. Re-shaped the pedal so the floor mats (which were and are always hooked and at least 6 inches AWAY from the pedal) won''t get trapped under the pedal.

They also installed the Shim of Safety, and the computer patch that will now magnanimously allow me to actually STOP. So I''m probably as good as I can get now with the car. Of course, before we went to pick it up, we went over to the Mazda lot, and took out a 2001 Miata. My husband flogged the crap out of it in a housing addition....with no housing as of yet, only VERY twisty roads. He''s quite the driver I find. He also had a wild, twitchy look when we got back. It''s the first time he''s driven a Miata (he''s a hard-core MG guy - a ''69 and a ''79) and he''s kinda always wanted to try one based on their racing/driving reputation. Bottom line, one of the MG''s is heading out of the driveway, and Miata will soon be coming in. At least with a Miata, I will be able to drive it, since old MG''s require that you walk widdershins three times around the car and then sacrifice a live chicken every time you want to drive it. There''s stick and then there''s a 30, or 40 year-old MG.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 2/28/2010 8:51:07 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 2/28/2010 6:54:14 AM
Author: pennquaker09
If I were asked this in the past, I would be a total 100% yes, but as of right now, I''m kind of jumping on the Ford wagon. It doesn''t have anything to do with Toyota''s recent troubles. I think all manufacturers have an issue at some point, so I don''t see why Toyota and Honda would be immune.

Maybe it''s just me, but I feel like Toyota has been really unoriginal with the design of their cars. I think the Camry is sort of becoming the new Ford Taurus, it''s just so . . . BORING. And, I''m sorry, but the only eye appealing Honda is the Accord, but that may be because they ''borrowed'' some ideas from BMW (and maybe Nissan?).

Again, this might just be me, but I think Ford is designing better cars. I want to stress that I''m just talking about sedans, Toyota still has the 4Runner and it''s the best mid-sized SUV on the market. Even though the new one of kind of blocky. Kind of makes me think it''s a transformer, but it''s still a great SUV. My first car was a 4Runner, but I promise I''m not biased. Anyway, I think the RAV4 is also kind of cute. It''s a million times better looking that the CR-V. I don''t understand for the life of me how it became the top selling SUV.

I guess if I were going to buy a normal (as in non-luxury) mid-sized sedan, it would be Ford Fusion. I think Hybrid vehicles would be considered low tier luxury (not everyone can spend $30K) on a car, but it that were not the case, I would totally buy a Fusion Hybrid.

Boring?? How can you say that a car that might careen out of control at any moment is BORING??

You sound like my husband. He thinks my Camry is an absolute snoozer, but I didn''t pick it for style, but for other considerations. It IS middle of the road I agree. But it is a really really fine road car for long trips, has really ergonomically designed controls, and by far the best driver''s seat I''ve ever put my aching back in.

Well, yesterday, I took my car in and they did all the ''stuff'' to it. Re-shaped the pedal so the floor mats (which were and are always hooked and at least 6 inches AWAY from the pedal) won''t get trapped under the pedal.

They also installed the Shim of Safety, and the computer patch that will now magnanimously allow me to actually STOP. So I''m probably as good as I can get now with the car. Of course, before we went to pick it up, we went over to the Mazda lot, and took out a 2001 Miata. My husband flogged the crap out of it in a housing addition....with no housing as of yet, only VERY twisty roads. He''s quite the driver I find. He also had a wild, twitchy look when we got back. It''s the first time he''s driven a Miata (he''s a hard-core MG guy - a ''69 and a ''79) and he''s kinda always wanted to try one based on their racing/driving reputation. Bottom line, one of the MG''s is heading out of the driveway, and Miata will soon be coming in. At least with a Miata, I will be able to drive it, since old MG''s require that you walk widdershins three times around the car and then sacrifice a live chicken every time you want to drive it. There''s stick and then there''s a 30, or 40 year-old MG.

I too have to take my Lexus to the dealership for this ''maintenance''. How exactly did they reshape the pedal?

I read your previous comments on Toyota; your words mirror my thoughts exactly. I would like to think that Toyota would get to the heart of the matter and find the fix but in the meantime you can''t help but have that tiny little nag in the back of your head saying what if this car takes off?

My other question revolves around the value of the car - both tradein and owner sell. I guess it''s still to early to guess what this situation will do to the car''s value but can only assume it won''t be good.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 2/28/2010 9:08:01 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

I too have to take my Lexus to the dealership for this ''maintenance''. How exactly did they reshape the pedal?

I read your previous comments on Toyota; your words mirror my thoughts exactly. I would like to think that Toyota would get to the heart of the matter and find the fix but in the meantime you can''t help but have that tiny little nag in the back of your head saying what if this car takes off?

My other question revolves around the value of the car - both tradein and owner sell. I guess it''s still to early to guess what this situation will do to the car''s value but can only assume it won''t be good.

Honestly, I''m not exactly sure. It looks like they shortened it - you can see the metal piece it attaches to now, whereas I don''t think you could before. It also seems like they deepened the floorboard well under the pedal - to give more room maybe? But again, not quite sure. I didn''t ask - we were desperate for lunch after driving that Miata.

Yeah, tradein will be an issue, although not usually for me, since I pretty much keep cars until they''re mostly dead.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 2/28/2010 10:24:48 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 2/28/2010 9:08:01 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

I too have to take my Lexus to the dealership for this ''maintenance''. How exactly did they reshape the pedal?

I read your previous comments on Toyota; your words mirror my thoughts exactly. I would like to think that Toyota would get to the heart of the matter and find the fix but in the meantime you can''t help but have that tiny little nag in the back of your head saying what if this car takes off?

My other question revolves around the value of the car - both tradein and owner sell. I guess it''s still to early to guess what this situation will do to the car''s value but can only assume it won''t be good.

Honestly, I''m not exactly sure. It looks like they shortened it - you can see the metal piece it attaches to now, whereas I don''t think you could before. It also seems like they deepened the floorboard well under the pedal - to give more room maybe? But again, not quite sure. I didn''t ask - we were desperate for lunch after driving that Miata.

Yeah, tradein will be an issue, although not usually for me, since I pretty much keep cars until they''re mostly dead.

Interesting - and I don''t think that reshaping would make one iota of difference. No real plans to trade this car in either but given all the negative press it makes you wonder if you should - we know there are potential problems. I bought this car for the reliability and the fact that they have held their value. . . oh, well, so much for best laid plans!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/28/2010 11:20:46 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

Date: 2/28/2010 10:24:48 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 2/28/2010 9:08:01 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

I too have to take my Lexus to the dealership for this ''maintenance''. How exactly did they reshape the pedal?

I read your previous comments on Toyota; your words mirror my thoughts exactly. I would like to think that Toyota would get to the heart of the matter and find the fix but in the meantime you can''t help but have that tiny little nag in the back of your head saying what if this car takes off?

My other question revolves around the value of the car - both tradein and owner sell. I guess it''s still to early to guess what this situation will do to the car''s value but can only assume it won''t be good.

Honestly, I''m not exactly sure. It looks like they shortened it - you can see the metal piece it attaches to now, whereas I don''t think you could before. It also seems like they deepened the floorboard well under the pedal - to give more room maybe? But again, not quite sure. I didn''t ask - we were desperate for lunch after driving that Miata.

Yeah, tradein will be an issue, although not usually for me, since I pretty much keep cars until they''re mostly dead.

Interesting - and I don''t think that reshaping would make one iota of difference. No real plans to trade this car in either but given all the negative press it makes you wonder if you should - we know there are potential problems. I bought this car for the reliability and the fact that they have held their value. . . oh, well, so much for best laid plans!

MGR...time for a LS 600h L ??

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/28/2010 8:51:07 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 2/28/2010 6:54:14 AM
Author: pennquaker09
If I were asked this in the past, I would be a total 100% yes, but as of right now, I''m kind of jumping on the Ford wagon. It doesn''t have anything to do with Toyota''s recent troubles. I think all manufacturers have an issue at some point, so I don''t see why Toyota and Honda would be immune.

Maybe it''s just me, but I feel like Toyota has been really unoriginal with the design of their cars. I think the Camry is sort of becoming the new Ford Taurus, it''s just so . . . BORING. And, I''m sorry, but the only eye appealing Honda is the Accord, but that may be because they ''borrowed'' some ideas from BMW (and maybe Nissan?).

Again, this might just be me, but I think Ford is designing better cars. I want to stress that I''m just talking about sedans, Toyota still has the 4Runner and it''s the best mid-sized SUV on the market. Even though the new one of kind of blocky. Kind of makes me think it''s a transformer, but it''s still a great SUV. My first car was a 4Runner, but I promise I''m not biased. Anyway, I think the RAV4 is also kind of cute. It''s a million times better looking that the CR-V. I don''t understand for the life of me how it became the top selling SUV.

I guess if I were going to buy a normal (as in non-luxury) mid-sized sedan, it would be Ford Fusion. I think Hybrid vehicles would be considered low tier luxury (not everyone can spend $30K) on a car, but it that were not the case, I would totally buy a Fusion Hybrid.

Boring?? How can you say that a car that might careen out of control at any moment is BORING??

You sound like my husband. He thinks my Camry is an absolute snoozer, but I didn''t pick it for style, but for other considerations. It IS middle of the road I agree. But it is a really really fine road car for long trips, has really ergonomically designed controls, and by far the best driver''s seat I''ve ever put my aching back in.

not Boring,but a GIRLY car.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 2/28/2010 2:50:32 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/28/2010 8:51:07 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 2/28/2010 6:54:14 AM
Author: pennquaker09
If I were asked this in the past, I would be a total 100% yes, but as of right now, I''m kind of jumping on the Ford wagon. It doesn''t have anything to do with Toyota''s recent troubles. I think all manufacturers have an issue at some point, so I don''t see why Toyota and Honda would be immune.

Maybe it''s just me, but I feel like Toyota has been really unoriginal with the design of their cars. I think the Camry is sort of becoming the new Ford Taurus, it''s just so . . . BORING. And, I''m sorry, but the only eye appealing Honda is the Accord, but that may be because they ''borrowed'' some ideas from BMW (and maybe Nissan?).

Again, this might just be me, but I think Ford is designing better cars. I want to stress that I''m just talking about sedans, Toyota still has the 4Runner and it''s the best mid-sized SUV on the market. Even though the new one of kind of blocky. Kind of makes me think it''s a transformer, but it''s still a great SUV. My first car was a 4Runner, but I promise I''m not biased. Anyway, I think the RAV4 is also kind of cute. It''s a million times better looking that the CR-V. I don''t understand for the life of me how it became the top selling SUV.

I guess if I were going to buy a normal (as in non-luxury) mid-sized sedan, it would be Ford Fusion. I think Hybrid vehicles would be considered low tier luxury (not everyone can spend $30K) on a car, but it that were not the case, I would totally buy a Fusion Hybrid.

Boring?? How can you say that a car that might careen out of control at any moment is BORING??

You sound like my husband. He thinks my Camry is an absolute snoozer, but I didn''t pick it for style, but for other considerations. It IS middle of the road I agree. But it is a really really fine road car for long trips, has really ergonomically designed controls, and by far the best driver''s seat I''ve ever put my aching back in.

not Boring,but a GIRLY car.

There there DF! I can only imagine how tough it must be to have such a fragile gender identity that driving the "wrong" kind of car makes your testicles shrivel and your voice rise an octave. Masculinity IS such an ephemeral thing, isn''t it? My condolences.

I''m lucky, I get to be a real woman regardless of whether I drive a Camry, a Miata, or our old 1984 Ford farm truck.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Date: 2/28/2010 2:45:13 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/28/2010 11:20:46 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

Date: 2/28/2010 10:24:48 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 2/28/2010 9:08:01 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

I too have to take my Lexus to the dealership for this ''maintenance''. How exactly did they reshape the pedal?

I read your previous comments on Toyota; your words mirror my thoughts exactly. I would like to think that Toyota would get to the heart of the matter and find the fix but in the meantime you can''t help but have that tiny little nag in the back of your head saying what if this car takes off?

My other question revolves around the value of the car - both tradein and owner sell. I guess it''s still to early to guess what this situation will do to the car''s value but can only assume it won''t be good.

Honestly, I''m not exactly sure. It looks like they shortened it - you can see the metal piece it attaches to now, whereas I don''t think you could before. It also seems like they deepened the floorboard well under the pedal - to give more room maybe? But again, not quite sure. I didn''t ask - we were desperate for lunch after driving that Miata.

Yeah, tradein will be an issue, although not usually for me, since I pretty much keep cars until they''re mostly dead.

Interesting - and I don''t think that reshaping would make one iota of difference. No real plans to trade this car in either but given all the negative press it makes you wonder if you should - we know there are potential problems. I bought this car for the reliability and the fact that they have held their value. . . oh, well, so much for best laid plans!

MGR...time for a LS 600h L ??

No, and I''d really have to consider all my options if choosing a new car! Are you afraid of your IS?