Would Ideal cut improve the look of an "I" color stone?

[MrsT]

Haven''t found my stone yet!

I''m having a real hard time finding an Ideal cut diamond just under 2ct''s.
This apparently is a magic size and in high demand. The price of 2.00ct diamond in the cut/color/clarity (Ideal-E-G-VS2 or SI1) I like is way over our budget.

However, a highly praised PS vendor has a 2.00ct but the color is an "I" and they claim it will look like a "G" because of the cut.

Anyone know this to be true?

Will I see a tint in an "I" color stone? I''ve always thought a more colorless stone in the E - G color range appealed to me more, but if it is true that the cut will mask the tint I would consider an "I".

Thanks
Mrs T

PS- I don''t want to "settle" for something just because a B&M or internet vendor doesn''t have what I want in stock.

 

[Lorelei]

It is possible in the vendor's opinion if this diamond is a 'high' I - it might be a borderline H due to it's grading, that it might face up whiter due to a great cut and possibly if it has flourescence too. A great cut will help a lower colour face up whiter.

You might though see a tint in an I colour from the side, even if it faces up white. The industry believe than an I colour is where the untrained eye begins to perceive a hint of colour, but it depends on the actual eyes viewing it! If the vendor thinks this diamond faces up exceptionally well, it might be worth a look. Many have fab I and J diamonds and are very happy with them, they face up very white indeed. Do you have the cut info to post? Also who certed it?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/26/2006 7:09:23 AM
Author:Mrs.T
Haven''t found my stone yet!

I''m having a real hard time finding an Ideal cut diamond just under 2ct''s.
This apparently is a magic size and in high demand. The price of 2.00ct diamond in the cut/color/clarity (Ideal-E-G-VS2 or SI1) I like is way over our budget. Why would a cutter make an ideal cut 1.90ct when he could make a bad cut 2.00ct and make a lot more money? demand ??????? Nah - common sense

However, a highly praised PS vendor has a 2.00ct but the color is an ''I'' and they claim it will look like a ''G'' because of the cut.

Anyone know this to be true? an ideal cut round has a very short ray path - most light goes in the top and bounces off 2 pavilions and back out the top - so little color is picked up. Also you get strong contrast which blinds us to body color. To enhance color of a say S or Q colored yellowish round stone you would cut it to a leaky cut like radiant that has multiple bounces of rays and shows a lot more color - then the stone can face up as Fancy Light yellow and be worth a lot more.

Will I see a tint in an ''I'' color stone? I''ve always thought a more colorless stone in the E - G color range appealed to me more, but if it is true that the cut will mask the tint I would consider an ''I''. Yes (and no). When the stone is dirty or looked at side on - you will see more of the body color - but face up and clean it is harder to tell. you pay more you get more

Thanks
Mrs T

PS- I don''t want to ''settle'' for something just because a B&M or internet vendor doesn''t have what I want in stock.

 

[Ellen]

Mrs. T, if you haven''t already, I would find someone in your area that sells quality cut stones. i.e. Hearts on Fire, and look at colors. We just had a guy on here who ordered an extrememy well cut H, had it set, and when he got it, felt he could see a lot of color. His stone was about the same size you are looking for. He was very unhappy.

So, I would suggest you really find out first what you can and can''t see. That way, no disappointments!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 7/26/2006 9:53:57 AM
Author: Ellen
Mrs. T, if you haven''t already, I would find someone in your area that sells quality cut stones. i.e. Hearts on Fire, and look at colors. We just had a guy on here who ordered an extrememy well cut H, had it set, and when he got it, felt he could see a lot of color. His stone was about the same size you are looking for. He was very unhappy.


So, I would suggest you really find out first what you can and can''t see. That way, no disappointments!

I agree. Demelza also had a ideal cut "i" and just upgraded to a "G" because the slight color she could see bothered her. It''s very personal and some don''t see color at all. If you''re one of those people then the I can be a great bargain but just be sure you''re one of those people

 

[RockDoc]

This is a call that MUST be made by seeing it.

Also consider that expert trained eyes, that have been color hue discrimination tested would a better choice in determining the face up and color grade factors.

Each stone will "behave" differently. Some will appear better than the color grade face up, some will appear the same, and some COULD actually show more color.

Also consider the lighting environment the stone willl be in as you look at it most of the time. If your light world is mostly incandscent lights, which are slightly yellow, the stone MAY refract more color than you might personally like.

To say that every well proportioned stone will face up better than the color grade determined from it side, face down, is not always factual.

Rockdoc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/26/2006 10:52:32 AM
Author: RockDoc
This is a call that MUST be made by seeing it.

Also consider that expert trained eyes, that have been color hue discrimination tested would a better choice in determining the face up and color grade factors.

Each stone will ''behave'' differently. Some will appear better than the color grade face up, some will appear the same, and some COULD actually show more color.

Also consider the lighting environment the stone willl be in as you look at it most of the time. If your light world is mostly incandscent lights, which are slightly yellow, the stone MAY refract more color than you might personally like.

To say that every well proportioned stone will face up better than the color grade determined from it side, face down, is not always factual.

Rockdoc

Roc you have been very restrained of late with regard ''touting for business'', but this post comes very close me thinks.

We need someone else to tell us what amoutn of color we can or can not be sensitive to?

Will you taste / poison test my food too?

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 7/26/2006 5:33:23 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/26/2006 10:52:32 AM
Author: RockDoc
This is a call that MUST be made by seeing it.

Also consider that expert trained eyes, that have been color hue discrimination tested would a better choice in determining the face up and color grade factors.

Each stone will 'behave' differently. Some will appear better than the color grade face up, some will appear the same, and some COULD actually show more color.

Also consider the lighting environment the stone willl be in as you look at it most of the time. If your light world is mostly incandscent lights, which are slightly yellow, the stone MAY refract more color than you might personally like.

To say that every well proportioned stone will face up better than the color grade determined from it side, face down, is not always factual.

Rockdoc

Roc you have been very restrained of late with regard 'touting for business', but this post comes very close me thinks.

We need someone else to tell us what amoutn of color we can or can not be sensitive to?

Will you taste / poison test my food too?

Gee Garry,


Guess I don't understand the above and your comment of my "touting" for business.

I didn't say that everyone should send their diamonds to me to checked. That would be touting for business. But I specifically and intentionally DIDN'T say that. I simply stated that in order to determine the answer to the question made by the consumer above, that it can't be uniformly answered and that each diamond's characteristics are individual.

I fail to see the relevance of making a determination based on gemological standards in a factual way has any true bearing to poison testing your food.

I am not an expert for determining what percentage of the world's population would want to poison your food. But in the event that I had the desire to test your food for it being tainted ( WHICH I ABSOLUTELY DON'T) I'd take my own advice, and find someone who WAS an expert in making that determination as I am NOT QUALIFED, TRAINED EDUCATED OR EQIPPED TO MAKE A RESPONSIBLE and FACTUAL OPINION AS TO THE CONTENT, TYPE or PERCENTAGE OF POISON IN FOOD. SO IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THIS GUESS YOU NEED TO FIND FOODDOC

Rockdoc

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/26/2006 7:39:56 PM
Author: RockDoc


I am not an expert for determining what percentage of the world's population would want to poison your food. But in the event that I had the desire to test your food for it being tainted ( WHICH I ABSOLUTELY DON'T) I'd take my own advice, and find someone who WAS an expert in making that determination as I am NOT QUALIFED, TRAINED EDUCATED OR EQIPPED TO MAKE A RESPONSIBLE and FACTUAL OPINION AS TO THE CONTENT, TYPE or PERCENTAGE OF POISON IN FOOD. SO IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THIS GUESS YOU NEED TO FIND FOODDOC

Rockdoc

LOL

I guess there are a few people out there who might like to put something stronger than bromide in my tea

Did you know that when we Aussies cook Galah's and Cockatoo's we boil them with a lump of quartz rock. When the quartz is tender we throw away the bird and eat the rock.

 

[He Scores]

As a cutter, I was taught that below H color any building up of the bulk of the stone (read, increasing depth percentage) will make the stone face up darker. My 32 years of cutting experience has backed up those teachings.

An I-J color stone, if it is to face up without noticable tint, should be cut on critical angle on bottom (40.75) for max brilliance, slightly shallow on top with a med to slightly thick natural girdle. This combination will detract from any tint of yellow being detected in the face up position.

Faceting the girdle on said stone, likewise will darken the stone in the face up position.

This only applies to stones with less than H color in the yellow catagory. It does not apply to browns in the same color range.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/26/2006 7:53:10 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/26/2006 7:39:56 PM
Author: RockDoc


I am not an expert for determining what percentage of the world''s population would want to poison your food. But in the event that I had the desire to test your food for it being tainted ( WHICH I ABSOLUTELY DON''T) I''d take my own advice, and find someone who WAS an expert in making that determination as I am NOT QUALIFED, TRAINED EDUCATED OR EQIPPED TO MAKE A RESPONSIBLE and FACTUAL OPINION AS TO THE CONTENT, TYPE or PERCENTAGE OF POISON IN FOOD. SO IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THIS GUESS YOU NEED TO FIND FOODDOC

Rockdoc

LOL

I guess there are a few people out there who might like to put something stronger than bromide in my tea

Did you know that when we Aussies cook Galah''s and Cockatoo''s we boil them with a lump of quartz rock. When the quartz is tender we throw away the bird and eat the rock.

LOL! When I was in Au we just (thankfully) ate a lot of lamb! lol I never saw Stone Soup on the menu!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/26/2006 10:13:48 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/26/2006 7:53:10 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/26/2006 7:39:56 PM
Author: RockDoc


I am not an expert for determining what percentage of the world''s population would want to poison your food. But in the event that I had the desire to test your food for it being tainted ( WHICH I ABSOLUTELY DON''T) I''d take my own advice, and find someone who WAS an expert in making that determination as I am NOT QUALIFED, TRAINED EDUCATED OR EQIPPED TO MAKE A RESPONSIBLE and FACTUAL OPINION AS TO THE CONTENT, TYPE or PERCENTAGE OF POISON IN FOOD. SO IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THIS GUESS YOU NEED TO FIND FOODDOC

Rockdoc

LOL

I guess there are a few people out there who might like to put something stronger than bromide in my tea

Did you know that when we Aussies cook Galah''s and Cockatoo''s we boil them with a lump of quartz rock. When the quartz is tender we throw away the bird and eat the rock.

LOL! When I was in Au we just (thankfully) ate a lot of lamb! lol I never saw Stone Soup on the menu!

It is called braised Cockatoo

- can''t you read?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/26/2006 10:21:00 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/26/2006 10:13:48 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/26/2006 7:53:10 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/26/2006 7:39:56 PM
Author: RockDoc


I am not an expert for determining what percentage of the world''s population would want to poison your food. But in the event that I had the desire to test your food for it being tainted ( WHICH I ABSOLUTELY DON''T) I''d take my own advice, and find someone who WAS an expert in making that determination as I am NOT QUALIFED, TRAINED EDUCATED OR EQIPPED TO MAKE A RESPONSIBLE and FACTUAL OPINION AS TO THE CONTENT, TYPE or PERCENTAGE OF POISON IN FOOD. SO IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THIS GUESS YOU NEED TO FIND FOODDOC

Rockdoc

LOL

I guess there are a few people out there who might like to put something stronger than bromide in my tea

Did you know that when we Aussies cook Galah''s and Cockatoo''s we boil them with a lump of quartz rock. When the quartz is tender we throw away the bird and eat the rock.

LOL! When I was in Au we just (thankfully) ate a lot of lamb! lol I never saw Stone Soup on the menu!

It is called braised Cockatoo

- can''t you read?

oh pardon moi! I thought it said wallaby meatballs!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/26/2006 9:45:05 PM
Author: He Scores


As a cutter, I was taught that below H color any building up of the bulk of the stone (read, increasing depth percentage) will make the stone face up darker. My 32 years of cutting experience has backed up those teachings.

An I-J color stone, if it is to face up without noticable tint, should be cut on critical angle on bottom (40.75) for max brilliance, slightly shallow on top with a med to slightly thick natural girdle. This combination will detract from any tint of yellow being detected in the face up position.

Faceting the girdle on said stone, likewise will darken the stone in the face up position.

This only applies to stones with less than H color in the yellow catagory. It does not apply to browns in the same color range.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

Very useful and interesting info, thanks Bill

 

[MrsT]

Sorry this is so long.
I saw an "I" stone yesterday.

Bill Bray: What is it about this cut that made it look brighter than an "I"?
My local jeweler is trying to sell me, dirt cheap, a 2.30ct "I" stone that was cut by Diamco the company that cuts the Cushette. (Price $15,000)
This diamond does not look tinted to me at all. I took it outside and it still didn''t look tinted.

I''m thinking this doesn''t have anything to do with the extra facets in the pavilion but more to do with what you said about table and depth. Even possibly what Gary said about light bouncing off the pavillion facets which are helping to enhance the color.

The table is large and depth is shallow, if I"ve got the measurements right.
It didn''t look dark at all. I could have wrote this backwards, but I have a table of 65.1% and depth of 60.4%. This diamond looks huge. I might have the measurements reversed. Crown is supposedly 33.6 and Pav. 42.3. HCA shows something wrong with these measurements - obviously.

My reason for bringing this up: Whatever the reason, this stone looks brilliant and sparkly, clean and crisp. With all it''s whaky measurements and "I" color, this diamond still looks very bright and sparkly.

I must conclude that it is possible that I might like a well cut diamond in an "I" color. With that said, I''ve listed the details of the stone below. Its scores 0.07 on HCA.

The vendor that has the stone listed below will let me send it to a local appraiser.The problem is it''s going to cost a lot of money. By the time I''m done I could have bought an airline ticket to this vendors city!

2.00 ct I SI1
8.22 * 8.24 *4.96
Depth: 60.2
Table: 57
CA: 34.7
PA: 40.6
Fluor: negligible
eye clean
H&A
Price: $21,000

HCA 0.7 ex,ex,ex,ex

Idealscope: Excellent: no light leakage at all

The above diamond seems to fit all my requirements except for the color. But I don''t think I could live with the knowledge that is was an "I". I''m funny that way. But I don''t want to be stupid and pass up something that might very well be a beautiful stone.

Thanks for all the helpful information and guidance. It must be frustrating dealing with someone that has such a hard time dealing with the technical information. I can''t understand it, I got A''s in Geometry but that was a long time ago!

I can''t wait for the day when I can say I found my diamond.

Mrs. T

 

[MrsT]

I just thought of another problem.

I''m planning to set the stone in an eternity style setting like Mara''s. That would mean all those accent stones would have to be "I" in color.

Mrs T

 

[Dee*Jay]

Date: 7/27/2006 8:53:14 AM
Author: Mrs.T

The above diamond seems to fit all my requirements except for the color. But I don''t think I could live with the knowledge that is was an ''I''. I''m funny that way. But I don''t want to be stupid and pass up something that might very well be a beautiful stone.

Mrs. T -

As we''ve all come to find, it must be *mind clean* as well as *eye clean.* Seriously, if you REALLY don''t think you can live witht the knowledge that it''s an I you might not ever be happy.

As for the smaller side stones, I think you can have some variation there. I''m sure those with that type of setting will chime in but they don''t all have to be exactly the same color a your center stone.

 

[february2003bride]

It depends on you. I''m very color sensitive and just can not go lower than a G for small diamonds and an F for larger. My e-ring is an F and that''s the lowest I wanted to go for color when we bought it. I do however, have a small (.33 pendant that''s a G. I can''t see any color but it is half bezel set

It''s a trade off, right? Lower color, higher carats. Higher color, lower carats. We went lower carats (1.06) for higher color and I''m happy with that!

Really, E''s are my sweet spot and if I ever upgrade, I''ll probably only stick to E colors.

 

[ladykemma]

are you aware you keep going back to that cushette, which is spready and brilliant. frankly, it sounds purdy.

 

[MrsT]

Can anyone teach me how to post pictures from web sites.

I tried to copy and past the normal way and it didn''t work.

MT

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 7/27/2006 12:09:50 PM
Author: Mrs.T
Can anyone teach me how to post pictures from web sites.


I tried to copy and past the normal way and it didn''t work.


MT

you have to save the url of the picture, then reply to a post, click on the little mountain box (2nd one from the end) and paste the url. the pic will show up once the post is submitted.

the eternity settings normally don''t show color, it''s more sparkle and most say they can''t really see a difference b/t their lower color center stones and the tiny melee. I think and I would be fine in that type of setting.

 

[He Scores]

Date: 7/27/2006 8:53:14 AM
Author: Mrs.T
Sorry this is so long.
I saw an ''I'' stone yesterday.

Bill Bray: What is it about this cut that made it look brighter than an ''I''?
My local jeweler is trying to sell me, dirt cheap, a 2.30ct ''I'' stone that was cut by Diamco the company that cuts the Cushette. (Price $15,000)
This diamond does not look tinted to me at all. I took it outside and it still didn''t look tinted.

I''m thinking this doesn''t have anything to do with the extra facets in the pavilion but more to do with what you said about table and depth. Even possibly what Gary said about light bouncing off the pavillion facets which are helping to enhance the color.

The table is large and depth is shallow, if I''ve got the measurements right.
It didn''t look dark at all. I could have wrote this backwards, but I have a table of 65.1% and depth of 60.4%. This diamond looks huge. I might have the measurements reversed. Crown is supposedly 33.6 and Pav. 42.3. HCA shows something wrong with these measurements - obviously.

My reason for bringing this up: Whatever the reason, this stone looks brilliant and sparkly, clean and crisp. With all it''s whaky measurements and ''I'' color, this diamond still looks very bright and sparkly.

I must conclude that it is possible that I might like a well cut diamond in an ''I'' color. With that said, I''ve listed the details of the stone below. Its scores 0.07 on HCA.

The vendor that has the stone listed below will let me send it to a local appraiser.The problem is it''s going to cost a lot of money. By the time I''m done I could have bought an airline ticket to this vendors city!

2.00 ct I SI1
8.22 * 8.24 *4.96
Depth: 60.2
Table: 57
CA: 34.7
PA: 40.6
Fluor: negligible
eye clean
H&A
Price: $21,000

HCA 0.7 ex,ex,ex,ex

Idealscope: Excellent: no light leakage at all

The above diamond seems to fit all my requirements except for the color. But I don''t think I could live with the knowledge that is was an ''I''. I''m funny that way. But I don''t want to be stupid and pass up something that might very well be a beautiful stone.

Thanks for all the helpful information and guidance. It must be frustrating dealing with someone that has such a hard time dealing with the technical information. I can''t understand it, I got A''s in Geometry but that was a long time ago!

I can''t wait for the day when I can say I found my diamond.

Mrs. T

Mrs. T,
Two things with regard to why your stone may look good to you. One there is some flourescence to the stone, even though the report says negligible. This could make an I color look better, particularly in natural daylight where you have naturally occuring UV radiation. Two, you are not comparing it with other stones of known color.

Also, "brighter" than an "I" can mean different things to different people. I was contributing to this thread based on the color value of diamonds facing up. Brighter could mean a different thing when looking at a stone where one can be percieved as being "darker". This would have to do with cut but not color.




Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[Stone Hunter]

He Scores,

Thank you for posting this information. What I understand is a stone will face up whiter than its grade if it is cut shallow, has flur.

Last week I looked at an L stone with Strong Blue flur that was cut shallow and it looked a little tinted but I was SHOCKED to find out it is an L. Thanks to your info I now know why.

And to think that it bothered me that the stone was shallow!

Obviously the designer/cutter planned the cut well.