Would appreciate some opinions on an Asscher

[AlphaDiamante]

Hello everyone,

I''m looking at a couple of Asschers from some internet vendors and was hoping to get some honest (and possibly brutal

) feedback. I''ve been reading up as much as I can about Asschers on this forum and have learned a lot, but I think my eye for detail has long way to go so I thought I''d ask for some more educated opinions

The candidate stone is :

2.01 - H - VS1 - VG/VG
Dimensions: 6.95 x 6.83 x 4.74
Table: 57%
Depth: 68.4%
Girdle: Slightly thick to thick
Culet: None
Flouresence: Faint

The Sarin report indicates a crown height of 16.7%.

I''m not sure what to make of the photo... unlike a lot of the other pic''s I''ve seen, the details under the table seem fuzzy and I''m not sure if that''s just some issue with the photo or something genuinely wrong with the stone? I might try asking the vendor if they have other pictures (they''re getting an IS image for me). As I look at the concentric squares, I wonder if the asymetry there is an issue or is it just that there''s something about the objects in the environment that are causing the reflections to look unbalanced?

Thanks in advance!

 

[AlphaDiamante]

Here''s the full Sarin report

 

[strmrdr]

by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/26/2008 2:16:44 AM
Author: strmrdr
by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

If P3 is actually as Sarin shows: 23.8 degrees...., it could very well be see-through...!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 3:43:05 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 2:16:44 AM
Author: strmrdr
by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

If P3 is actually as Sarin shows: 23.8 degrees...., it could very well be see-through...!

yep
there have been a bunch of these lately on the JA wesite with pics and a couple called in else where.
The cutter starts out cutting a kicken asscher then messes up the p3 angle :{
I wonder if its the same cutter that is producing them.
They need too hire me :}

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/26/2008 4:03:59 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 3:43:05 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 2:16:44 AM
Author: strmrdr
by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

If P3 is actually as Sarin shows: 23.8 degrees...., it could very well be see-through...!

yep
there have been a bunch of these lately on the JA wesite with pics and a couple called in else where.
The cutter starts out cutting a kicken asscher then messes up the p3 angle :{
I wonder if its the same cutter that is producing them.
They need too hire me :}

You know why..., right?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 4:34:53 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 4:03:59 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 3:43:05 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 2:16:44 AM
Author: strmrdr
by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

If P3 is actually as Sarin shows: 23.8 degrees...., it could very well be see-through...!

yep
there have been a bunch of these lately on the JA wesite with pics and a couple called in else where.
The cutter starts out cutting a kicken asscher then messes up the p3 angle :{
I wonder if its the same cutter that is producing them.
They need too hire me :}

You know why..., right?

yep

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/26/2008 4:36:39 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 4:34:53 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 4:03:59 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 3:43:05 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 2:16:44 AM
Author: strmrdr
by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

If P3 is actually as Sarin shows: 23.8 degrees...., it could very well be see-through...!

yep
there have been a bunch of these lately on the JA wesite with pics and a couple called in else where.
The cutter starts out cutting a kicken asscher then messes up the p3 angle :{
I wonder if its the same cutter that is producing them.
They need too hire me :}

You know why..., right?

yep

Notice P1 is 58-56.5 deg....

 

[emeraldlover1]

Date: 2/26/2008 4:34:53 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 4:03:59 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 3:43:05 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/26/2008 2:16:44 AM
Author: strmrdr
by the looks of the photo I think the IS is going too be white center and its one too run from.
It looks like the background is showing thru the center.

If P3 is actually as Sarin shows: 23.8 degrees...., it could very well be see-through...!

yep
there have been a bunch of these lately on the JA wesite with pics and a couple called in else where.
The cutter starts out cutting a kicken asscher then messes up the p3 angle :{
I wonder if its the same cutter that is producing them.
They need too hire me :}

You know why..., right?

Is it because the cutter wants to keep the carat weight at the 2 mark?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 4:50:02 AM
Author: DiaGem
Notice P1 is 58-56.5 deg....

I cant duplicate those numbers exactly because of the large c1 issue in DC.
But a p3 of ~25.5 degrees would make that pavilion work

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 7:51:05 AM
Author: emeraldlover1

Is it because the cutter wants to keep the carat weight at the 2 mark?

yep
The p1 angle is the start of the pavilion problem which was purely too keep weight.
With the chosen crown angle it isn't a disaster on the crown facet area.
It could be made too work with the right p3 but isn't the best way of going about it from a performance standpoint.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/26/2008 10:47:04 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 7:51:05 AM
Author: emeraldlover1

Is it because the cutter wants to keep the carat weight at the 2 mark?

yep
The p1 angle is the start of the pavilion problem which was purely too keep weight.
With the chosen crown angle it isn''t a disaster on the crown facet area.
It could be made too work with the right p3 but isn''t the best way of going about it from a performance standpoint.

Dont forget the issue of forcing the total depth to below 70%...., If the cutter would complete the Asscher with a better P3 and ended up with a 71% or 72% td..., it might have been an awesome Asscher!!!

Thats where I see the problem with the "norm" of above 70%td is considered BAD!!!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 11:01:13 AM
Author: DiaGem
Dont forget the issue of forcing the total depth to below 70%...., If the cutter would complete the Asscher with a better P3 and ended up with a 71% or 72% td..., it might have been an awesome Asscher!!!

Thats where I see the problem with the ''norm'' of above 70%td is considered BAD!!!

on one hand yes, on the other there is no excuse too take a 57% table over D70% other than weight.
40% tables like we both love the rules change and there is a legit reason for taking them that deep.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/26/2008 11:09:56 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 11:01:13 AM
Author: DiaGem
Dont forget the issue of forcing the total depth to below 70%...., If the cutter would complete the Asscher with a better P3 and ended up with a 71% or 72% td..., it might have been an awesome Asscher!!!

Thats where I see the problem with the ''norm'' of above 70%td is considered BAD!!!

on one hand yes, on the other there is no excuse too take a 57% table over D70% other than weight.
40% tables like we both love the rules change and there is a legit reason for taking them that deep.

True..., but with a 41/2 deg P2 and a 31 deg P1..., it could have still been a nice one.
But 57 is definitely stealing the weight!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/26/2008 11:27:56 AM
Author: DiaGem
True..., but with a 41/2 deg P2 and a 31 deg P1..., it could have still been a nice one.
But 57 is definitely stealing the weight!

my new common market 50% table design im working on would come out too 1.77ct at that MM.
The Monster at 1.92
The tinymonster at 1.82
Will be interesting too see where my 60% table design will fall.

 

[emeraldlover1]

Date: 2/26/2008 10:47:04 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/26/2008 7:51:05 AM
Author: emeraldlover1

Is it because the cutter wants to keep the carat weight at the 2 mark?

yep
The p1 angle is the start of the pavilion problem which was purely too keep weight.
With the chosen crown angle it isn''t a disaster on the crown facet area.
It could be made too work with the right p3 but isn''t the best way of going about it from a performance standpoint.

Thank you, strmrdr! Its taken me about 2 years to sort of understand the language you speek. It''s good to know I am comprehending something. You guys are the best.

 

[AlphaDiamante]

Well, the experts were spot on. The IS image shows a blindingly white center...

Bummer...

I''ll be following everyone''s advice and moving on to the next candidate. Thanks, everyone, for your feedback.

 

[strmrdr]

looks just like I expected it too.
sorry it was dud.

 

[AlphaDiamante]

Ok, here''s another that caught my eye...

2.04 - I - VS1 - VG/VG
Dimensions: 7.01 x 7.03 x 4.56
Table: 69%
Depth: 64.9%
Girdle: Medium to thick, faceted
Culet: None
Flouresence: None

Table is maybe on the large size? And I''d prefer to see the windmills a little bigger, but kinda looks nice to me... then again, I don''t know what I''m doing

Is the prominent dark square cause for concern?

 

[strmrdr]

table is way too big and crown too flat.

 

[strmrdr]

What price range are you looking too be in?

 

[AlphaDiamante]

Strm, I''m truely indebted to you for your rapid and frank appraisals of all my prospects. That you take the time to read and respond to so many requests for advice speaks volumes about you. Just in case you don''t hear it enough, thank you!

To answer your question, I''m hoping to keep the stone below 16K, but that number has been steadily creeping upwards recently

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/27/2008 3:12:29 AM
Author: AlphaDiamante
Strm, I''m truely indebted to you for your rapid and frank appraisals of all my prospects. That you take the time to read and respond to so many requests for advice speaks volumes about you. Just in case you don''t hear it enough, thank you!

To answer your question, I''m hoping to keep the stone below 16K, but that number has been steadily creeping upwards recently

should be able to do a 2ct H-vs in that range, problem is finding a good one, the better cutters reserve them for their own brand.
You best bet is too contact a vendor who might be able too pry some of them out of their hands.
Best one for that because of the volume he does with them is Jon at GOG.
http://www.goodoldgold.com

17k+ will get you into the G/vs range where there is more available.