Women may be more sexually "fluid" than men

[kenny]

Interesting study.
Partial snip

It’s a phenomenon that Lisa Diamond, a University of Utah psychology professor, has studied extensively.
In her 2008 book, “Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women’s Love and Desire,” she writes that women’s sexuality appears to be much more fluid than men’s, and that this fluidity tends to involve three main characteristics:

– Non-exclusivity in attractions: can find either gender sexually attractive
– Changes in attractions: can suddenly find a man or woman sexually attractive after having been in a long-term relationship with the other
– Attraction to the person, not the gender

Research seems to support the idea that some women are able to move between relationships with both genders without blinking an eye - and that labels matter little. In a 2008 study, Diamond followed 70 lesbian, bisexual, and “unlabeled” women over the course of 10 years.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/understanding-females-sexual-fluidity/?iref=obinsite

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I have only known 2 lesbian women in my life. Both were bi-sexual, with long term relatioships with opposite sexes. One of them just remarried a man after being in a lesbian relationship for many yrs. She was married before then for 10yrs. Sounds true to me. I know no gay guy that were bisexual. I don't know what it means. Just an observation.

Annette

 

[Imdanny]

I don't think I want to know.

 

[maplefemme]

As far as Cynthia saying “I’ve been straight and I’ve been gay, and gay is better,” she said. “For me, it is a choice.” I think her terminology and 'labels' written so literally are the problem.
Just because she has had relationships with both sexes and chooses to sleep with women, it doesn't make her gay IMO.

None of my gay male friends are turned on by women, no urge whatsoever to hit the sheets with them. They can look look at women and find them beautiful but no movement South of the equator, so to speak.
One of my very good gay friends has had a terrible time with his aged parents and their acceptance of him, it goes very much against their culture and beliefs. One time he was coming out of a "show" and saw his parents sitting in a car across the street. He went over to talk to them, figuring maybe there'd be a chance at understanding and that was why they were there, but they sped off as he approached the car. He and I have had many a heart to heart and he's always said "Trust me, if I had a choice, it wouldn't be this".

I have also had two clients who's husbands left them after long marriages to "come out" as gay men. Both always felt they were gay, but for many reasons, including family acceptance, societal norms and careers; married women.

None of my lesbian friends want to sleep with men, there's no sexual attraction.
Then I have other female friends who'll sleep with either men or women and keep long term relationships with either, so are they gay or do they just sleep with whoever they want? Some consider themselves bi, some say they are gay/lesbian, some just say they are sexually open, in an esoteric sense, therefore pansexual.
Then you get into transgender, who may be homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual....etc etc...the list of sexual diversity goes on and on, in all it's complexity.
I don't care how people get their feathers fluffed, as long as they are safe, happy, and no one gets hurt.

 

[kenny]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

 

[LJL]

My father has been known to say "every woman has a little lesbian in em"

- might be due to social norms or something but i would say most women have experimented in some way with someone of the same sex, even if its just kissing, while most men probably have not.

Classic case of...PEOPLE VARY

 

[kenny]

Indeed, and significantly . . . genders vary.

 

[maplefemme]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

This can be particularly devastating for the wives and the children, to be deceived so.

 

[kenny]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

This can be particularly devastating for the wives and the children, to be deceived so.

Indeed!
At least gays are less-hated today so younger gays will feel less pressure to lie and "fit in".

This should result in this tragedy happening less and less in the future - unless that scummy element of our society is successful spreading their hatred and bigotry disguised as morality.

 

[maplefemme]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

This can be particularly devastating for the wives and the children, to be deceived so.

Indeed!
At least gays are less-hated today so younger gays will feel less pressure to lie and "fit in".

This should result in this tragedy happening less and less in the future - unless that scummy element of our society is successful spreading their hatred and bigotry disguised as morality.

Absolutely! The repeal of DADT for e.g was a great step forward towards liberation.

 

[Circe]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

I do wonder, though, how much of that is the different kind of social pressure that's brought to bear on women as opposed to men: even if the sexuality in question is already transgressing typical boundaries, I do wonder if men are encouraged to embrace their desires more than women, and if women are trained to value emotional fulfillment more highly. It's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg question - and I do wonder if/how the answer will change as patriarchy relaxes overall!

Me, I'm bi, definitely an interested party when it comes to developments in the field: I have to say, having read a fair number of these "women are just more open" studies, I've had to wonder if it's not just part and parcel of the general pattern of standards for women relaxing to encompass traditionally "masculine" behaviors (working outside of the home, evincing an interest in sex for the sake of sex ... wearing pants) because it's a kind of social promotion whereas standards for men remain the same because, well ... there's nowhere to go but down, at least in terms of traditional patriarchal hierarchy. Dude stays home with his kids while wearing a skirt, he's trading an awful lot of social cachet to "slum it." Same goes for sexual behavior in a lot of ways.

P.S. - And that's not even going into the classical feminist analysis of women as the "sex class," sometimes translated by pop culture into the idea that women are "just prettier," and that's why it's easier for both genders to be attracted to them. Yeah, well, school one gender to think about its appearance and exaggerate its secondary sex characteristics while encouraging both genders to conflate a position of power with the perspective of the male gaze and and guess what you're going to end up with! Jeez.

 

[Maisie]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

So these men who were once married with kids and then came out... they aren't gay are they? Surely they would be bi sexual if they could sustain a relationship with a women for so long?

 

[kenny]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

So these men who were once married with kids and then came out... they aren't gay are they? Surely they would be bi sexual if they could sustain a relationship with a women for so long?

Who knows?
Labels are imperfect.

A guy who is attracted to men but wants to be accepted by society can have sex with a woman and make a baby.
Maybe during sex he was fantasizing about a guy he saw in the locker room last night, but does sex with a woman and making a baby make him straight?
Who knows?

 

[Maisie]

I'm a older gay male and have discussed this topic with a zillion gay men and women.
I'll ask, "Why are you gay? What makes you gay? When did you know you were gay" etc.

Invariably when men speak of being gay they define it by being sexually attracted to men.
Even the men who used to be married to a women and had kids say they secretly were always attracted to men but lived the straight lifestyle because of social pressure.

VERY rarely have I heard a woman define it in terms of which gender they are sexually attracted to.
Much more often it is something like, "Yeah I used to be married to a man and had kids, but I'm just more comfortable with a woman."

It is another fascinating difference between men and women.

So these men who were once married with kids and then came out... they aren't gay are they? Surely they would be bi sexual if they could sustain a relationship with a women for so long?

Who knows?
Labels are imperfect.

A guy who is attracted to men but wants to be accepted by society can have sex with a woman and make a baby.
Maybe during sex he was fantasizing about a guy he saw in the locker room last night, but does sex with a woman and making a baby make him straight?
Who knows?

Good point. Labelling doesn't really work. I have to say, I would be devastated if my husband told me the only reason he could perform was by thinking about another man.

Mind you, I would much rather he left me for a man than a woman. That wouldn't threaten my womanly-ness

 

[kenny]

BTW, the author Richard A. Isay has insightfully proposed two very different definitions for the terms gay and homosexual, though in our culture today the terms are pretty much used interchangeably.

Homosexual is something you are, and is defined by being sexually attracted to the same gender.
Gay: Something a homosexual may or may not become, and it is how you chose you live your life.
My take is he's saying Homosexual is on the inside but gay is on the outside.
My take is you cannot chose to be or not be homosexual but you can chose to hide it and not live as a gay person - which is what that entity in Rome demands.

A homosexual man can live and function as a straight man, and according to Isay's narrow definition would not be described as "gay".
This is not just semantics; it is an interesting and illuminating distinction.

Isay wrote two books and notice how he named them, "Being Homosexual: Gay Men and Their Development", and "Becoming Gay: The Journey to Self-Acceptance ":

http://www.amazon.com/Being-Homosexual-Their-Development-Vintage/dp/030738957X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330380897&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Gay-Journey-Self-Acceptance-Vintage/dp/0307389774/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330380936&sr=1-4

 

[Maisie]

I wonder who chose the name 'gay'. Didn't it used to be used to describe someone who was happy and joyful?

 

[kenny]

I wonder who chose the name 'gay'.

I don't know.
There's some history on the term's use here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

 

[Dancing Fire]

are there more gay couples or more lesbian couples in the U.S.?

 

[kenny]

are there more gay couples or more lesbian couples in the U.S.?

I could speculate, but I think it is impossible to get data.
Many still have legit reasons to remain private.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Considering social pressures, it takes a real man to be a gay man. From an early age, boys are shown by society that it is absolutely wrong to be attracted to men (or even to show affection). A man with some homosexual curiosity is treated as "closet gay". It doesn't strike me as odd at all that this stifles bi behaviour - a strongly predominant homosexual man will go through the process of coming out, a man who leans both ways will tend to be "straight". (everything in general term, of course, and plenty of exceptions exist)

Women with bisexual curiosity, however, are treated as sexy, adventuresome and kinky (aka, "wow, threesome! Score") in a way that true lesbians aren't. Of course, a lot of people still discriminate against bi women, but there is a lot more of a mixed message.

 

[Deia]

I agree with what everyone has said, and to add to Circe's post... I was just thinking about this over the weekend after seeing a overly sexualised American Apparel ad. They say "sex sells" but the only "sex" we see is the straight forward heterosexual male fantasy type. I wonder how this effects women... as in, growing up you are exposed to this idea, does it somehow effect how you feel towards other women, sexually? I don't know. (I don't even know if I make sense with this, trying my best to be clear lol!)