Willing to join me in a pledge about future postings?

[door knob solitaire]

When I post here, I feel as if we are sitting around the kitchen table, enjoying a cup of joe, and conversing. So I usually just write what I would say if we were all together. Some of our opinions may be informative or persuasive, but I think we should be responsible for the direction in which our posts lead the conversation. As a future reader may not understand the chain of events. I am guilty of writing my emotions without the thought of the outcome...I apologize for that and if I have offended or damaged anyone.

I was following an evolution of decision to purchase merchandise by a poster, and was a little more involved in that situation. When the poster had issues with a vendor, I took it almost personal. I think we all look out for each other...just as we would if we were sitting across the table yakking (doubt my yakking ability? My posts are almost as long as Mara''s!!

just joking sweetie). That being said, I would like to encourage the board to consider the vendors here and the posters not as us against them...but as equals. Many offer discounts to us, and most offer extremely valuable information to make us better consumers. Don''t we owe respect to the wellspring of information and assistance we gain from them? I feel I do.

So I was hoping you may join me, as I pledge to make my words in future posts to be only helpful and respectful to all of PS members/vendors. If there is a post that may lead to negative interpretations by future readers, I pledge to refrain from serious involvement until I have heard all sides of the story. If it involves a vendor, lets get that company in the conversation right at the start. Escalating the issue can be hurtful to all. Lets remember that years before the internet, our written words could be reason for litigation on the basis of liable. After all, written words remain far longer than spoken...especially here on the internet.

Any takers in my pledge? Respectfully,

Door Knob Solitaire

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/19/2007 2:30:25 AM
Author:door knob solitaire

When I post here, I feel as if we are sitting around the kitchen table, enjoying a cup of joe, and conversing. So I usually just write what I would say if we were all together. Some of our opinions may be informative or persuasive, but I think we should be responsible for the direction in which our posts lead the conversation. As a future reader may not understand the chain of events. I am guilty of writing my emotions without the thought of the outcome...I apologize for that and if I have offended or damaged anyone.

I was following an evolution of decision to purchase merchandise by a poster, and was a little more involved in that situation. When the poster had issues with a vendor, I took it almost personal. I think we all look out for each other...just as we would if we were sitting across the table yakking (doubt my yakking ability? My posts are almost as long as Mara''s!!

just joking sweetie). That being said, I would like to encourage the board to consider the vendors here and the posters not as us against them...but as equals. Many offer discounts to us, and most offer extremely valuable information to make us better consumers. Don''t we owe respect to the wellspring of information and assistance we gain from them? I feel I do.

So I was hoping you may join me, as I pledge to make my words in future posts to be only helpful and respectful to all of PS members/vendors. If there is a post that may lead to negative interpretations by future readers, I pledge to refrain from serious involvement until I have heard all sides of the story. If it involves a vendor, lets get that company in the conversation right at the start. Escalating the issue can be hurtful to all. Lets remember that years before the internet, our written words could be reason for litigation on the basis of liable. After all, written words remain far longer than spoken...especially here on the internet.

Any takers in my pledge? Respectfully,

Door Knob Solitaire

I have learned that there are great pluses and minuses when it comes to Internet Trading!!

Vendors have the ability to get information on hand that ''regular'' jewelers have no way of getting... (from potential future clients).
And as we know... "information is the biggest asset these days".

On the other hand, when clients are not "fully" satisfied they have the power to "dent" a reputation (in a click!!!) quite easily!!!
When it comes to this business..., reputation is the biggest asset a jeweler may have!!!

I feel that once something goes wrong..., the details of the transaction gets into this ''public'' arena very quickly and by the time the vendor wants to tell his side..., the client with a bunch of "internet" buddies are busy hacking and chopping the vendor''s credibility etc, etc....

Vendor has no choice but to make sure the client comes out happy..., even when the vendor is not necessarily at fault.

Thats Life!!!

 

[Regular Guy]

AA for Pricescopers?

Don''t ignore Heisenberg.

 

[oshinbreez]

I think it''s a great idea. I''m all for hearing about problems with vendors on this board, but it helps to hear both sides. Maybe if the OP would send a copy of post of vendor when putting it on the board, the vendor would have a chance to tell their side and make things right before it gets too out of hand.

 

[Iceman]

I would love that too. But this is not a perfect world

Consumers can cross that line but the vendors cant.

The old quote " if you cant say any thing nice dont say it at all"

Remember we are all guests here in Pricescopes home and yes we need to always be positive in what we say.


The other side of the sword ~

Ive been gone for awhile , just to take a step back on helping people here.

In this world you have both good and bad and if they are purchasing a big item wouldnt you like to know both ? One without the other does you no good.

Coming back here. My life has changed a lot to the more positive side and I owe a lot of people appoligys in past comments. Rockdoc and Rhino and Dirt to name a few. Those were the wild west days in 98'' ''99 of diamondtalk. The best thing was I made them so mad that they took off 8,900 of my posts so I dont have to relive them.

But that is who I was back then and it made me who I am now.



Ive been in this business for 25 years. There is a lot of good and a lot more bad in it. Please keep your eyes open to both.

Kindest Regards
CoreyJ

 

[strmrdr]

When a vendor we recommend lets a customer down they let us all down.
When a vendor messes up the good ones take their hand slap, fix the problem and life goes on.
You can bet they try real hard not too let it happen again.
That is our power too stick together and look out for one another.

 

[surfgirl]

Personally, I dont think such a pledge is necessary. It sounds like you are suggesting we should be giving special treatment to a vendor just because they advertise on this forum (and perhaps I am misunderstanding your post). To me, this forum has been about education first and foremost. I love sharing issues and opinions with other gem lovers but my main reason for being here is to make an informed decision as a consumer. So if someone here posts an issue about something they''re dealing with, with a vendor who posts/advertises here, then they should do so diplomatically at first, but I dont see why they should or need to let that vendor know they''re posting something here. I mean, presumably they''re posting because they want impartial or unbiased feedback on their situation and how to proceed. And I''m fine with that because it seems like that''s why this forum is here in the first place. But since I dont buy online, I have no emotional attachment to any particular online vendors. For others who do, they might feel protective of said vendor but ultimately to me, they''re just vendors out to sell consumers something so I think if someone has an issue with one of them, the consumer should be able to post here freely, to get some unbiased feedback before they do back to the vendor for further discussions. Just my two cents though.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I already do this.... there have been several things that I have wanted to talk about about the ring I'm having made... I've wanted to get advice but even seeking advice would involve complaining and maybe even saying things that could be construed negatively here because they are out of context and involve my *feelings* as well as my concerns. The first time I came here and did the "woe is me" thing and it kinda blew up and I felt so bad afterwards... and you know? EVERY other issue that's come up I've dealt with off the board and EVERY single one of them worked out just fine without any board drama.

It is my personal opinion that things should be brought here when there is no other recourse. So many issues resolve through *talking*. Sometimes it can be difficult to confront a person or a situation and sometimes the line between requesting and demanding can be fuzzy. Sometimes you do need to demand things, but just because you do, doesn't mean you need the weight of 50 other posters to drive your point home. But its good to know that PS is here if you do.

ETA - also, everyone is different - their thresholds are different, their needs are different.... their expectations are different, the weight of their juevos are different.... hehe

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/19/2007 2:30:25 AM
Author:door knob solitaire

That being said, I would like to encourage the board to consider the vendors here and the posters not as us against them...but as equals. Many offer discounts to us, and most offer extremely valuable information to make us better consumers. Don''t we owe respect to the wellspring of information and assistance we gain from them? I feel I do.

My first allegiance is too my fellow consumers and that has cost me some friends that are in the trade.
But it will not change.
The vendors here make a mint off the board which is the bottom line why they are here.
The price they pay for that is being in a fish bowl of public opinion.
The great ones rise up too it and thrive, the duds and the crooks are soon tossed aside.
Where the system falls apart is if there is too much protection of the vendors.
Protecting vendors is the very opposite of what we need too do.

 

[kcoursolle]

I''m always a big fan of taking problems to the vendor first, and then if it''s still not getting fixed bringing things more public. However, being *nice* about the situation goes a long way. There''s no reason to be crude and disrespectful about reviews and talk about problems.

 

[diamondfan]

I am in agreement except I do realize that someone''s "side" can contain subjective information, or be truly what the poster thinks happen but in actuality things did not go that way. It is hard to cull through two relative strangers posts and discern who is getting the more clear view of the situation, at least it is to me. I cannot know who said what in a discussion three months ago when customer when discussing setting and price with vendor, I cannot know if customer was clear or reasonable or vice versa. So it is very tough for me, as a neutral bystander, to decide what is pertinent or what is being relayed accurately...if this makes any sense. And I am not trying to attribute bad intent here, sometimes we recall things differently etc, or we were upset at the time and forget that we might have lost our cool or what, so I really cannot always feel that my advice is going to be spot on. I can read what someone feels, and have empathy, and if the vendor chimes in I can try to get to the meat of the situation, but that is not the easiest thing to do in cyber communication.

 

[DBM]

for what it''s worthh i appreciate and admire the gesture of sensitivity doorknob. i never am a fan of the "us vs. them" mentality. whether the concept can be implemented logistically or not i don''t know but i''m comforted to see someone thinkng along your lines.thx.

 

[yellowsparkles]

Date: 5/19/2007 3:39:47 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 5/19/2007 2:30:25 AM
Author:door knob solitaire


That being said, I would like to encourage the board to consider the vendors here and the posters not as us against them...but as equals. Many offer discounts to us, and most offer extremely valuable information to make us better consumers. Don''t we owe respect to the wellspring of information and assistance we gain from them? I feel I do.

My first allegiance is too my fellow consumers and that has cost me some friends that are in the trade.
But it will not change.
The vendors here make a mint off the board which is the bottom line why they are here.
The price they pay for that is being in a fish bowl of public opinion.
The great ones rise up too it and thrive, the duds and the crooks are soon tossed aside.
Where the system falls apart is if there is too much protection of the vendors.
Protecting vendors is the very opposite of what we need too do.

I have to agree with Strmrdr.

 

[ladykemma]

i have seen both sides on here.

i have seen holy terrors go off on trusted vendors for perceived problems, and I have seen those same trusted vendors send out poor quality work.

i remember a girl from canada who doesn''t post here anymore, she had a very nice "hand - did" custom ring from a unknown canadian jeweler. Wow, was that stone and setting stunning. she kept saying it was crooked. none of the PSers couldn''t see anything wrong with the ring. we kept saying to her "well, it was hand made - it''s not going to be perfect". she ended up terrorizing the jeweler and the jeweler refused to work with her anymore. boy, i felt sorry for that jeweler.

 

[Maisie]

I feel that pricescope is here to educate people. I have learned a huge amount in the short time I have been here and I really appreciate having this as a resource. I would never have bought my ring from an internet vendor if I had not been able to build up a relationship with them on here.

I also feel that people should be allowed to have their say without being restricted. Its only by honest opinion and being able to tell of your experiences that we can get to know a vendor and what they will be like if we choose to work with them.

I don''t agree with vendor bashing but I can also see why people make a protective circle around fellow pricescopers who are upset. The more established PS members are fair and mature about the less than ideal experiences, while still being supportive and offering advice and help in how to go about finding a resolution.

 

[Eva17]

I agree with Storm.

The industry in general was a whole secret society in years past. Having a place like pricescope to come to for information and advice is priceless.

That includes the good the bad and the ugly....





I also don't feel like coming to PS for advice is like going public (like a newspaper ad or tv) because there are so many people that don't even know that PS exists. I feel that such information is being shared among people that come here by choice and who care about the subject matter.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

I have just been reading this topic with great interest, and if it comes down to an ''us vs them''-situation, as a cutter, I am probably in the them-camp.

However, I do not think it is a good idea for the vendors or the cutters here, if the consumers are going to give us a privileged behaviour, in which it is unlikely that we are ever criticized. The very fact that we sometimes are criticized here, and that we have to do our utmost to avoid these situations, and repair as well as possible whatever we did wrong, improves our act, our organisation, and finally our competitive position. Some vendors cannot cope with this, and they will unfortunately leave the forum, but then again, if you can''t stand the heat, you have to stay out of the kitchen.

Personally, when someone criticizes a specific vendor, I often see support-groups of that vendor trying to minimize the problem. I think that this is also an undesirable situation. Let us face it, each vendor has his group of aficionados here, who relate to that vendor and their product in such a way, that they take any criticism personally. That is not doing any good, neither for the unprepared consumer, nor for the vendor himself.

I would suggest if a consumer vents his critique on a specific vendor here, that one of the prosumers here would offer to mediate between the unhappy consumer and the vendor. This could show more positive results than the public bashing of either that unhappy consumer or of the vendor.

The thing is, vendors do make mistakes, and in the same way, some consumers are just too demanding. But it would be unwise to give the vendor extra protection, since it lowers the value of the whole forum. But if we avoid to turn a complaint into a wrestling-match, and immediately turn to real problem-solving, that would be an enormous plus for the forum.

Just my 2 cents,

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 5/19/2007 9:55:09 AM
Author: Iceman
I would love that too. But this is not a perfect world

Consumers can cross that line but the vendors cant.

The old quote '' if you cant say any thing nice dont say it at all''

Remember we are all guests here in Pricescopes home and yes we need to always be positive in what we say.


The other side of the sword ~

Ive been gone for awhile , just to take a step back on helping people here.

In this world you have both good and bad and if they are purchasing a big item wouldnt you like to know both ? One without the other does you no good.

Coming back here. My life has changed a lot to the more positive side and I owe a lot of people appoligys in past comments. Rockdoc and Rhino and Dirt to name a few. Those were the wild west days in 98'' ''99 of diamondtalk. The best thing was I made them so mad that they took off 8,900 of my posts so I dont have to relive them.

But that is who I was back then and it made me who I am now.



Ive been in this business for 25 years. There is a lot of good and a lot more bad in it. Please keep your eyes open to both.

Kindest Regards
CoreyJ

Corey

Thank you for the above.

Rockdoc

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/20/2007 3:32:40 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

I would suggest if a consumer vents his critique on a specific vendor here, that one of the prosumers here would offer to mediate between the unhappy consumer and the vendor. This could show more positive results than the public bashing of either that unhappy consumer or of the vendor.

Paul, I''m sympathetic with your view overall, but re the quoted comment above...I''m not sure how you''re visualizing, or imagining this. PS has no ombudsman. It''s not clear with what authority someone would stand up and become one. Currently, based on the functional relationships that exist...and I think that we tend to witness this happening here in a natural way...more senior writers will tend to add stability with their comments...and an administrator is happily in place to do their best to allow functional talking...and evaluate whether it meets the unusual case where such comment might be inappropriately misinterpreted...such that it needs to be stricken from the record entirely. With respect to the recent communication and its source...I found wisdom in the group communication that chose to hold its tongue for several hours following 8 am or so...waiting to see how the events would unfold...without additional input.

As you can see...I was watching, too.

 

[surfgirl]

Paul, I appreciate and agree with your comments. And I''m happy to hear from the "them" camp that you understand why it is important to have an open arena for discussions, including the bad.

I have read others posts and I do agree that there posters that come here hysterical over what is a nothing matter. I suppose it is up to us posters to calm a poster down that seems overly emotional, and to be a voice of reason when need be. And I have indeed seen that reaction when someone is needlessly upset over something that appears to be a simple matter to resolve. I very much appreciate that aspect of this board.

 

[diagem]

Good, lets launch off a PS judicial committee...., with strangers as arbitrators...

 

[Maisie]

Date: 5/20/2007 4:19:13 PM
Author: surfgirl
Paul, I appreciate and agree with your comments. And I''m happy to hear from the ''them'' camp that you understand why it is important to have an open arena for discussions, including the bad.

I have read others posts and I do agree that there posters that come here hysterical over what is a nothing matter. I suppose it is up to us posters to calm a poster down that seems overly emotional, and to be a voice of reason when need be. And I have indeed seen that reaction when someone is needlessly upset over something that appears to be a simple matter to resolve. I very much appreciate that aspect of this board.

I don''t think that posters are ever ''needlessly upset'', I think what could be upsetting to one person might be a ''nothing matter'' to another. Its not fair to say they are being ''hysterical''. Spending a lot of money can cause people to be overly cautious and I can understand that.

 

[pricescope]

Posts on our forums should be made according to Policies, everything is there no need for creative thinking Paul, especially from vendors.

Maisie, yellowsparkls and strmrdr - Policies apply to consumers as well, vendors just have some extra ones. Any particular member can be unreasonable or having an agenda - from both groups, that's why this board is moderated, and was for the last 7 years with help of the members thru Reports, thank you. When and if we decide to change Policies we will, but it will be in the best interest of consumers AT WHOLE as it was before, not in the interest of any particular one.

 

[pricescope]

Helen Lovejoy: Will someone please think of the children ( or "consumers" in our case )

"Think of the children" is an appeal to emotion and can be used to support an irrelevant conclusion (both logical fallacies) when used in an argument.

This argument can simply appeal to the listener's emotion by connecting an argument to innocent children that many people feel an instinctual need to protect.

Not all the consumers, however, are innocent and helpless. There are some consumers and some vendors who manage to take advantage of the forums with the methods that are rather far from ethical.

There are also cases of simple ignorance, lack of tact on both sides (consumers and vendors). Often, people indulge themselves "to vent" without thinking it maybe unfair, etc etc etc.

The point is: being a "consumer" doesn't mean you're always right - we're all human beings

There were some good points made here, folks, but from our experience, it should be considered on the case to case basis without generalizations.

Critique to the vendors (both advertisers and not) is welcome but in constructive and positive, not derogatory, manner.