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Will the real Socialist please stand up?

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decodelighted

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From CNN''s front page ...

''Lately, [McCain] and Governor Palin have actually accused me of -- get this -- socialism,'' Obama said. ,''It''s kind of hard to figure how Warren Buffett endorsed me, Colin Powell endorsed me, and John McCain thinks I''m socialist.''

Obama said he simply wants to give the middle class a tax cut.

Powell came to Obama''s defense after endorsing the senator from Illinois.

Powell said he had grown tired of McCain''s negative campaigning and that the American people would prefer to focus on issues like education, infrastructure and the economy. He specifically slammed Palin''s allegation that Obama''s tax plan is socialist, calling it misleading.

"Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay them -- in roads and airports and hospitals and schools," President Bush''s former secretary of state said. "And taxes are necessary for the common good, and there''s nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more, who should be paying less.

"For us to say that makes you a socialist, I think, is an unfortunate characterization that isn''t accurate."

While not endorsing either candidate, political analyst Larry Sabato pointed to what he said was a flaw in the Palin assertion: the recent approval of a $700 billion bailout which, in part, will pump billions of dollars into failing banks.

"The fly in the ointment for this socialism argument is the recent bank bailout. That''s probably the most egregious example of socialism in American history," said Sabato, who heads the University of Virginia''s nonpartisan Center for Politics.


Source
 
Maybe Socialism (?) has evolved?
 
Date: 10/20/2008 4:46:02 PM
Author: starsapphire
Maybe Socialism (?) has evolved?

What do you mean?
 
Date: 10/20/2008 4:46:02 PM
Author: starsapphire
Maybe Socialism (?) has evolved?
OR maybe the McCain camp is "red-bating", full of hooey & desperate.
 
Maybe the Idea of Socialism is not such a hot button anymore.....is what I meant.
 
Or maybe people don''t care about it? Maybe they just want somebody, anybody in office other than GWB? Not trying to be "snarky" just honest.
 
Date: 10/20/2008 4:53:45 PM
Author: starsapphire
Maybe the Idea of Socialism is not such a hot button anymore.....is what I meant.

i don''t think that''s it.... you just mention the word socialism and people get all uptight and defensive and talk about it like it is the worst fate that could befall a country. just look at the thread on socialism from a few weeks ago.
 
Date: 10/20/2008 4:55:44 PM
Author: starsapphire
Or maybe people don''t care about it? Maybe they just want somebody, anybody in office other than GWB? Not trying to be ''snarky'' just honest.

I disagree. People have been using it as a "scare" word from the very beginning. BEWARE THE SOCIALISTS! They''ll eat your soul as you sleep- you betcha.
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People hear the word, usually in context, and KNOW it is supposed to be bad. I bet 8/10 people on the streets could give you a coherent explanation of socialism.
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This has always confused me about the US, what is the big deal about Socialism...from each according to his ability, to each according to his need? Sounds like Jesus or someone (no that was not a religious comment, I think of him as a historical figure who was all about helping poor people).

My dad is still a Socialist. I grew up in a socialist community where we all pulled together, housing was provided to families, all foods were served in our communal dining hall, free childcare for every family, every teacher was paid as much as every mechanic, as every farmer...we checked out cars on schedules, sort of like library books by the hour, or zipcar only you know who is late to turn it in. It actually worked really well for women, mothers especially, laundry was/is still done by one person rather than in every household, food prepared by the cooks, dinners served together and more free time for families to spend together playing games or harvesting apples, whatever was needed. We worked together and everyone had specific jobs, I worked in the nursing home with Holocaust survivors for years as my after school job and then the kitchen before my military service began. Everyone picks their job, they just contribute towards the economic good of the group and we all reaped the rewards. We shared our joys and pains and there are several hundred communities like this across Israel; my kibbutz has evolved over time, but yeah, socialism is still pretty much the same. How exactly is this dangerous? I realize that this small scale 550+/- people is different than how it would work in a large country, but what exactly makes socialism bad?

My thinking is that Americans actually think that the USSR and PRC were/are Communist or Socialist, when in fact, both were totalitarian? Is this on the right track?
 
Date: 10/20/2008 9:50:17 PM
Author: swimmer
This has always confused me about the US, what is the big deal about Socialism...from each according to his ability, to each according to his need? Sounds like Jesus or someone (no that was not a religious comment, I think of him as a historical figure who was all about helping poor people).


My dad is still a Socialist. I grew up in a socialist community where we all pulled together, housing was provided to families, all foods were served in our communal dining hall, free childcare for every family, every teacher was paid as much as every mechanic, as every farmer...we checked out cars on schedules, sort of like library books by the hour, or zipcar only you know who is late to turn it in. It actually worked really well for women, mothers especially, laundry was/is still done by one person rather than in every household, food prepared by the cooks, dinners served together and more free time for families to spend together playing games or harvesting apples, whatever was needed. We worked together and everyone had specific jobs, I worked in the nursing home with Holocaust survivors for years as my after school job and then the kitchen before my military service began. Everyone picks their job, they just contribute towards the economic good of the group and we all reaped the rewards. We shared our joys and pains and there are several hundred communities like this across Israel; my kibbutz has evolved over time, but yeah, socialism is still pretty much the same. How exactly is this dangerous? I realize that this small scale 550+/- people is different than how it would work in a large country, but what exactly makes socialism bad?


My thinking is that Americans actually think that the USSR and PRC were/are Communist or Socialist, when in fact, both were totalitarian? Is this on the right track?

Ding, ding, ding!
 
Date: 10/20/2008 9:50:17 PM
Author: swimmer
This has always confused me about the US, what is the big deal about Socialism...from each according to his ability, to each according to his need? Sounds like Jesus or someone (no that was not a religious comment, I think of him as a historical figure who was all about helping poor people).


My dad is still a Socialist. I grew up in a socialist community where we all pulled together, housing was provided to families, all foods were served in our communal dining hall, free childcare for every family, every teacher was paid as much as every mechanic, as every farmer...we checked out cars on schedules, sort of like library books by the hour, or zipcar only you know who is late to turn it in. It actually worked really well for women, mothers especially, laundry was/is still done by one person rather than in every household, food prepared by the cooks, dinners served together and more free time for families to spend together playing games or harvesting apples, whatever was needed. We worked together and everyone had specific jobs, I worked in the nursing home with Holocaust survivors for years as my after school job and then the kitchen before my military service began. Everyone picks their job, they just contribute towards the economic good of the group and we all reaped the rewards. We shared our joys and pains and there are several hundred communities like this across Israel; my kibbutz has evolved over time, but yeah, socialism is still pretty much the same. How exactly is this dangerous? I realize that this small scale 550+/- people is different than how it would work in a large country, but what exactly makes socialism bad?


My thinking is that Americans actually think that the USSR and PRC were/are Communist or Socialist, when in fact, both were totalitarian? Is this on the right track?

I love your story! I learned about kibbutz''s in school
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Americans and capitalists done like this because it is insular, anti-trade and anti growth. It doesn''t allow for economies of scale, or efficiencies, so you have small, self-sustaining pockets, but not an overall large booming economy. And we love stratification over here!
2.gif
 
Date: 10/20/2008 9:50:17 PM
Author: swimmer
This has always confused me about the US, what is the big deal about Socialism...from each according to his ability, to each according to his need? Sounds like Jesus or someone (no that was not a religious comment, I think of him as a historical figure who was all about helping poor people).

My dad is still a Socialist. I grew up in a socialist community where we all pulled together, housing was provided to families, all foods were served in our communal dining hall, free childcare for every family, every teacher was paid as much as every mechanic, as every farmer...we checked out cars on schedules, sort of like library books by the hour, or zipcar only you know who is late to turn it in. It actually worked really well for women, mothers especially, laundry was/is still done by one person rather than in every household, food prepared by the cooks, dinners served together and more free time for families to spend together playing games or harvesting apples, whatever was needed. We worked together and everyone had specific jobs, I worked in the nursing home with Holocaust survivors for years as my after school job and then the kitchen before my military service began. Everyone picks their job, they just contribute towards the economic good of the group and we all reaped the rewards. We shared our joys and pains and there are several hundred communities like this across Israel; my kibbutz has evolved over time, but yeah, socialism is still pretty much the same. How exactly is this dangerous? I realize that this small scale 550+/- people is different than how it would work in a large country, but what exactly makes socialism bad?

My thinking is that Americans actually think that the USSR and PRC were/are Communist or Socialist, when in fact, both were totalitarian? Is this on the right track?

Wow, swimmer, I am so intrigued by you living in a kibbutz! If you feel like it, do you think you could tell us more about it? I''m super interested in it!

And you nailed why people fear Socialism with your last 2 sentences!
 
Ha! And I love to hear about normal American childhoods, me "so you don''t all move into youth houses away from your parent''s home at 13?" college roommates: shaking heads no. The thing with a kibbutz, fantastic that you have heard of us, Trillionaire you are just awesome, I love reading your insights, I think that it makes it easier to create new business or ventures because the risk and wealth are shared. My kibbutz has a cow farm, an apple orchard, a hotel, a machineshop, and an R&D facility for software; something is bound to be doing well in that mix. Kibbutzim make up a small part of the economy, but we kibbutzniks dominate in politics and military. Did you know that Israel''s economy grew more than 5% last year? Yup, that is more than the US. But of course we have a war going on within our country. I stopped being a socialist when I joined Peace Now (one of the over 30 viable political parties in Israel that form coalitions only to dissolve them, you think you have probs with a 2 party system? ha!) now I vote in order to end wars, not for passing economic reasons. Thing2 I''ve read some good books about growing up "in the K" as my DH who shares the same life trajectory calls it, but am tired and will think of something if you are curious.
 
Date: 10/20/2008 11:02:58 PM
Author: swimmer
Ha! And I love to hear about normal American childhoods, me ''so you don''t all move into youth houses away from your parent''s home at 13?'' college roommates: shaking heads no. The thing with a kibbutz, fantastic that you have heard of us, Trillionaire you are just awesome, I love reading your insights, I think that it makes it easier to create new business or ventures because the risk and wealth are shared. My kibbutz has a cow farm, an apple orchard, a hotel, a machineshop, and an R&D facility for software; something is bound to be doing well in that mix. Kibbutzim make up a small part of the economy, but we kibbutzniks dominate in politics and military. Did you know that Israel''s economy grew more than 5% last year? Yup, that is more than the US. But of course we have a war going on within our country. I stopped being a socialist when I joined Peace Now (one of the over 30 viable political parties in Israel that form coalitions only to dissolve them, you think you have probs with a 2 party system? ha!) now I vote in order to end wars, not for passing economic reasons. Thing2 I''ve read some good books about growing up ''in the K'' as my DH who shares the same life trajectory calls it, but am tired and will think of something if you are curious.

Whoa-you are blowing my mind right now with the living in a youth house! I would love to read a book about kibbutzes if you can think of a good one! I have only heard of them in passing and don''t know any real details about them other than what you''ve shared here! And I will share any details of my boring American childhood with you!
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Date: 10/20/2008 4:53:45 PM
Author: starsapphire
Maybe the Idea of Socialism is not such a hot button anymore.....is what I meant.
apparently paulson and bernarke don''t think its a bad idea.....as long as they''re on the receiving end.

movie zombie
 
Thing2, not finding what I wanted in English for memoirs. Here is a bit of a review from Amazon that touches on how one type of socialism is adapting in a modern state linky
 
Date: 10/26/2008 8:19:24 PM
Author: swimmer
Thing2, not finding what I wanted in English for memoirs. Here is a bit of a review from Amazon that touches on how one type of socialism is adapting in a modern state linky

Thank you swimmer! I told my twin sister about kibbutzes and she was very interested and impressed, too. I''m going to check out the book for sure!
 
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