Why would breast feeding vary THIS much by state?

[ieatbugs]

lady_disdain,

I found this link that I thought might explain a little more about our reaction:

http://fanniesroom.blogspot.com/2010/02/art-of-mansplaining.html


To quote:

The mansplainer's problem isn't so much that he's trying to teach a woman something, but rather that he takes it as a given that she doesn't already know whatever it is he is going to tell her.

The assumption that women who are rearing children are uninterested or incapable of educating themselves on how to do so is the offensive part.

 

[packrat]

I gotta say, I think I'm a complete dullard. Especially when threads end up this way. In the beginning, I was wide eyed and thought "dude..wow" w/the comments to Skippy. After that tho..now I just feel like a little kid in a room full of adults looking around like wha???? I don't get why it's anything to get all worked up about. I don't think Kenny posted the thread to be all.."male" and therefore "above" us lowly females, and even if he did post it to let's say get everyone all worked up..then why is everyone all worked up and toodling around on our huffy bikes? I can't seriously be the only laid back, take it for what it is girl on here.

 

[ieatbugs]

I gotta say, I think I'm a complete dullard. Especially when threads end up this way. In the beginning, I was wide eyed and thought "dude..wow" w/the comments to Skippy. After that tho..now I just feel like a little kid in a room full of adults looking around like wha???? I don't get why it's anything to get all worked up about. I don't think Kenny posted the thread to be all.."male" and therefore "above" us lowly females, and even if he did post it to let's say get everyone all worked up..then why is everyone all worked up and toodling around on our huffy bikes? I can't seriously be the only laid back, take it for what it is girl on here.

It's not about being upset. It's about recognizing a problem that actively causes harm and trying to educate parties so that people can be better members of their society and those around them.

This is a problem that is largely perpetuated due to the fact that many people don't understand the repercussions and how it affects others.

If you would like to learn more about why it is such a big deal, you might check out the following:

an explanation http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/

Some common examples are:
- Recent studies show that resumes with male names are considered 'more qualified' and selected for jobs more often than ones with female names, even if they are exact copies of each other.
- Women who change their last name upon being married are considered to be less dedicated to their job
- Men can choose not to have children without fear of criticism or their masculinity called into question
- Men with careers are not considered selfish for not staying home with children
- Men are never told that they were 'asking for it' when the victims of sex crimes, yet women are told that being a victim could be due to how they were dressed
- A man's ability to make important decisions and capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is
-Most major religions argue that men should be the head of my household, while a wife and children should be subservient
- Men are generally scrutinized much less for their appearance
- Most men enjoy all of these privileges without even being aware that they have them!!!

 

[packrat]

You know..I kinda get the whole men are treated better than women and things are different/easier for them in some situations but I just don't see where the big bad man/wolf is lurking behind every post/thread/door/corner ready to kick the entire kingdom of womanhood into submission. Does it happen? Sure, I'm quite positive it does. Often even. Do I think Kenny is one of "those" types of guys? Nope. I don't think every time a guy posts or talks about a "female" related subject he needs to have a "talking to" or be "schooled" on what is proper. He's a guy. He doesn't "get" female stuff cuz..he's a guy.

 

[packrat]

And see..the whole educating people so they can be better members of society..that kinda comes off like I may be a bit less than a dullard b/c I'm not screaming I am woman hear me roar, or that men in general are the dullards. Everyone w/a brain knows by know those points, and being female, I've dealt w/most of those points, many times in my almost 38 years. If girls go around getting their panties in a twist and flouncing around every time a guy makes a misstep, what does that accomplish? I guess I'm not liberal enough to get wound up over this.

 

[ieatbugs]

You know..I kinda get the whole men are treated better than women and things are different/easier for them in some situations but I just don't see where the big bad man/wolf is lurking behind every post/thread/door/corner ready to kick the entire kingdom of womanhood into submission. Does it happen? Sure, I'm quite positive it does. Often even. Do I think Kenny is one of "those" types of guys? Nope. I don't think every time a guy posts or talks about a "female" related subject he needs to have a "talking to" or be "schooled" on what is proper. He's a guy. He doesn't "get" female stuff cuz..he's a guy.

I don't really think it's about being a "type" of a person. But no one was saying that men can't talk about female related things. We were saying that his behavior is problematic because it the implications that women need to be looked out for and taken care of....and honestly, he was completely dismissive of the criticism and his response was that we went "bananas" and were "sad" which really just reinforces it. If he wasn't that "type" of guy he'd be able to consider the feelings of others and respond in a mature and adult matter, to acknowledge our valid perspective, express that it was not his intent, and maybe consider our point of view. Instead he did just the opposite and dismissed us as being invalid because we are... crazy? emotional? pathetic? however you want to interpret bananas. But we have to deal with it, some of us every day. Women make less money than men. We are as a whole treated differently. I was refused a copy of my own test results from a CAT scan from a man who told me the "big words" would "confuse my pretty head."

Also, if we shouldn't be giving him a 'talking to' on his behavior to us, then why shouldn't HE be doing the same to begin with? If he wasn't giving us a 'talking to' about breastfeeding, we'd have avoided this entire thing in the first place.

 

[packrat]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

 

[Laila619]

You know..I kinda get the whole men are treated better than women and things are different/easier for them in some situations but I just don't see where the big bad man/wolf is lurking behind every post/thread/door/corner ready to kick the entire kingdom of womanhood into submission. Does it happen? Sure, I'm quite positive it does. Often even. Do I think Kenny is one of "those" types of guys? Nope. I don't think every time a guy posts or talks about a "female" related subject he needs to have a "talking to" or be "schooled" on what is proper. He's a guy. He doesn't "get" female stuff cuz..he's a guy.

Wholeheartedly agree with this, Packrat.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Now, if you really are interested in basic insights into regional differences, I suggest "American Nations" by Colin Woodward.

Thank you, I am going to look it up.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

Yup.

 

[mrs taylor]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

Yup.

double yup. this thread is....strange.

 

[crown1]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

Yup.

double yup. this thread is....strange.

maybe kenny has gotten some riled by always writing people vary and then not allowing for people varying regarding breast feeding. most who have posted here for any amount of time know this topic is going to set off sparks. kenny is a smart guy, i think he knew this would be a hot topic. i'm thru because people vary.

 

[Skippy123]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

Yup.

double yup. this thread is....strange.

maybe kenny has gotten some riled by always writing people vary and then not allowing for people varying regarding breast feeding. most who have posted here for any amount of time know this topic is going to set off sparks. kenny is a smart guy, i think he knew this would be a hot topic. i'm thru because people vary.

crown I completely agree!! It is also one of those rinse and repeat topics [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-object-to-this-time-magazine-cover.175323/page-7#post-3198741#p3198741']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-object-to-this-time-magazine-cover.175323/page-7#post-3198741#p3198741[/URL]

 

[ieatbugs]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

I think your example here is a great one: it demonstrates how a random guy on a public forum felt entitled to speak to women in the same way your father did. What your father did for you is completely appropriate because he was YOUR DAD, but for random men on a forum to feel the need to give me such advice as MY OWN father would would be the definition of paternalism. Literally. It's extremely personal and not something many people feel comfortable with. Try going and telling some guy how best to raise his own kid - wanna bet he's going to respond with "Thanks" instead of "mind your own business?" I don't think so.

You're way overascribing motive here and casting an equally negative perception of our behavior (as women) though.

 

[ieatbugs]

You know..I kinda get the whole men are treated better than women and things are different/easier for them in some situations but I just don't see where the big bad man/wolf is lurking behind every post/thread/door/corner ready to kick the entire kingdom of womanhood into submission. Does it happen? Sure, I'm quite positive it does. Often even. Do I think Kenny is one of "those" types of guys? Nope. I don't think every time a guy posts or talks about a "female" related subject he needs to have a "talking to" or be "schooled" on what is proper. He's a guy. He doesn't "get" female stuff cuz..he's a guy.

Wholeheartedly agree with this, Packrat.

No one's saying that though, and I'm confused why people saying they are uncomfortable in being advised on how to rear their own children (which is extremely personal and well within their right) is being conflated with malicious intent. But people seem surprised that actions have consequences or affects on other people (as a group), which they do, sometimes which....are negative.

Disappointed in the lack of solidarity here for others feelings.

 

[ieatbugs]

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

Yup.

double yup. this thread is....strange.

maybe kenny has gotten some riled by always writing people vary and then not allowing for people varying regarding breast feeding. most who have posted here for any amount of time know this topic is going to set off sparks. kenny is a smart guy, i think he knew this would be a hot topic. i'm thru because people vary.

The fact is that people should be no more comfortable with this than they would a random stranger walking up to them in a public place and saying "Gee, I hope you aren't going to feed that (whatever food) to your kid." because it's the same kind of thing.

 

[packrat]

Good gawd. I get people vary. People vary in what they get worked up about. In what they find interesting. In what they want to talk about, in what they want to share, and how they go about sharing it, and how they respond to it--some might say well thanks but I don't see it that way, and here's why. Others might say hey you know, I think you need to be educated b/c you can't possibly know what is going on, and I am of course right on all counts and I've got a powerpoint presentation that proves my rightness. I just don't get the "rable rable rable" boo hiss grrrr we're women so **** off men and don't tell me what to do, over...dudes, it's a post about bf'ing being different in some places than others. Seriously. Seems to me anymore, it takes *one* thing that *one* woman gets wound up about and if another woman doesn't agree that it's anything to get riled up about, omg she's just not *getting* it, men are *against* us, we must join hands and sing kumbaya lest we lose our womanhood to the evils and tyranny of Men. I just think there are other things to get all wound up about. The solidarity of women? Again, good gawd. Not every fecking man on the planet has a dark part to him that secretly wants women to go back to the kitchen where she belongs and make him a turkey pot pie. If my Dr. told me I couldn't have something that I requested in a condescending manner I'd say **** you very much gimmee my shit and transfer my records. End of story. I find I have a harder time w/*women* being more condescending and excuse me, bitchy, about other women, than I do men about women, and that bothers me more than *some* men putting themselves on a pedestal over women. *Every* topic that pits women against women is a claws out hair pulling mess of ridiculousness..and if you throw a guy into it ohhh my lord run away, swiftly, like the wind. Working Vs SAHM. BF or pumping, cry it out, co sleeping, on and on..it's a hot fricken mess, people. And it's a mess women continue to stir up.

We're not random strangers. We're not bff's holding hands and running thru a field of daisies. But I am friends w/Skippy on FB, and we talk on there and she's been incredibly sweet and lovely and helpful to me, especially these last few weeks working on my project. I adore her kids, even tho I've never met them, and I like to think we'd be friends IRL as well. I'm friend's w/Freke offline and have been for a long time, I adore her kid too, can't get enough of her, lord knows she's muddled thru w/my projects over the years, and also would like to think that we'd be friends IRL. If *I'd* posted this thread, would it have devolved into Men V Women? Just b/c I'm not "for" some of the replies here, does that mean I'm automatically *against* women? Maybe I'd be more apt to get behind some of it, if it were gone about a different way-there's a thought. If we automatically get all puffed up and offended and don't bother to see the reasoning behind what was said, or where the other person was coming from, or the point they were trying to make, or assume we know what they're saying/trying to say/secretly saying in Man-code, what does that accomplish? Honestly, it makes us look exactly like men generalize that women behave-emotional. In my house, if JD asks me something that is completely benign and it comes off like he's being pissy about it, I automatically raise my hackles and snot off to him-and then he looks at me like jeez I was just asking. He does the same thing to me if I sound all pissy- but sometimes we're JUST ASKING. (now granted, sometimes I'm pissy w/him on purpose b/c I really am mad at him, and then I act all affronted if he tries to call me on it..but that's just for fun )

It wasn't Kenny's first post on the forum-that would be a little hard to swallow, like really-that's what you're contributing for your very first post here? He's been here a while, and yes he does know how things work and he does know that other threads have been posted about nursing and babies and whathaveyou. Why can't a man be interested in girl stuff? Is that bad/wrong/something else to be wary about like ooooh you know he's a guy and so he's trying to get super top secret girl info that's G-14 Classified. Should men just shut the hell up and not have anything to do w/girl stuff, ever again b/c since we're women, we know what's right for us, even tho not every woman feels the same way about every single topic, so do we just pick a side and rable rable rable against the other women's side?

If President Obama decides to have a press conference in the next couple days and starts out by saying "My fellow Americans, today I had my eyes opened..yes, on a forum called Pricescope, there is an amazing poster named Kenny, and he has posted about breast feeding being different in some states than others, and also pointed out that breast is best, which I was unaware of until this time. Because of this post, I declare a new law, Kenny's Law, that makes it illegal to not breastfeed your baby and you must have a doctors note stating that you are unable or you will go to jail. As a man, I know what's right for women" then yeah, I'd think we have a problem. Until then, I don't think this specific thread is anything to rally against and fight the good fight against. I don't think we need matching armbands and a catchy slogan we can shout or put on shirts.

And yes I do realize there are male politicians who are and continue to make legislature against women. But does "schooling" a random poster on a diamond forum change that? Will Kenny now pick up the torch for women's rights b/c of the rable rable rable grrr boo hiss? Or is he more likely to shake his head and say "Huh...women" and go about his day? If you want to educate someone, do you do it in a rable rable rable boo hiss shake your fist and try to draw first blood? Cuz that'll go over well. There *are* men who will/would/do stand up for women, that really *are* concerned/interested in women's issues, and we don't want to lose them in the shuffle, you know?

 

[Missy]

I think what is disappointing is that Kenny always says "people vary" but in truth he is as judgmental (maybe more) as the next person. Dare I say a bit hypocritical? And I am not saying that most people are not a bit hypocritical in some of their actions but his main thing is always saying that people vary and yet he seems intolerant of that fact much of the time.

I don't see his behavior as problematic. I just see it as a guy who posts on a predominately female forum, and posted about something he thought might be thought provoking to those women. That's it. I don't see an ulterior motive or spite or anything, at all. I doubt when I had a miscarriage, my dad bringing in an article he found in a random newspaper about miscarriage that was very scientific, and written by a man, as anything other than..my dad bringing in an article he thought might help me come to terms w/what happened, by looking at it from a less emotional (female) "I lost my baby" point of view, b/c that was the only way he knew how to deal w/it..b/c he's a guy. My dad sends me links on bf'ing and all kinds of "girl" stuff- nursing, menstrual cramps whatever. I've not nursed for over 3 years now, but he still thinks those things would be of interest to me (and they are). My dad wouldn't come on HERE and be like oh hey ladies, there's this new study out of heat being helpful for cramps..But Kenny has been here a long time and I'm sure he's comfortable posting here and comfortable w/the majority of us, so he doesn't think anything of passing along something he finds interesting. I don't get a vibe of Jeez you wimins are all dummies and don't know what's best for them chilluns, get them boobies out and use them whydoncha, boy I gotta git on these here wiminfolk 'n give them a talkin too cuz they don't know what they be doin.

Sometimes, a thread is just a thread about what the title says, not a clandestine cloak and dagger way of stomping women back to the 1800's.

Yup.

double yup. this thread is....strange.

maybe kenny has gotten some riled by always writing people vary and then not allowing for people varying regarding breast feeding. most who have posted here for any amount of time know this topic is going to set off sparks. kenny is a smart guy, i think he knew this would be a hot topic. i'm thru because people vary.

crown I completely agree!! It is also one of those rinse and repeat topics [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-object-to-this-time-magazine-cover.175323/page-7#post-3198741#p3198741']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-object-to-this-time-magazine-cover.175323/page-7#post-3198741#p3198741[/URL]

There *are* men who will/would/do stand up for women, that really *are* concerned/interested in women's issues, and we don't want to lose them in the shuffle, you know?

Yes, there are plenty of men who will and do stand up for women and this thread has nothing to do with that and will not affect that in anyway whatsoever. The men who do stand up for women and their rights wouldn't be lecturing women about breastfeeding. The women of PS are smart. We don't need lecturing to about what we should and should not do regarding our own bodies.

 

[packrat]

Of what is he intolerant? I have a tendency to just glide over things and "Huh, ok", shrug and go on when I read things, and not delve too deeply into it. Intolerance, to me, is different than having a differing opinion of something. Intolerance is like..ohh that "church" ( ) that goes to soldier's funerals. Intolerance to me equals..well, hate. Is he intolerant of non nursing women? Or does he just not "get" that some women can't/don't want to nurse, and it's their right to refuse to do it but he doesn't "get" why they would? I wanted to nurse my kids, and I loved it, even tho I was miserable doing it w/London at first, so not wanting to do it "just b/c", *I* don't get, but that doesn't mean I'm intolerant of those that don't want to nurse, it just means I liked it so I don't understand why others wouldn't want to try and experience what I did (and I would encourage other women to at least try it). I just shrug and move on, b/c that's my opinion. But I've done it, so I have a different perspective on it than a guy, or a woman who doesn't want to, just by default. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong, just different. If he says "But here are the facts, breast is best, why don't more women nurse?" to me that's just a question, not a lecture, and the answer quite simply is, every woman is different. Here are the facts, Octavia asschers have better light performance than asschers, so why doesn't everyone love the Octavia more? I dunno, some just don't. What works for one doesn't work for all, but asking questions about it doesn't really warrant a big hulabaloo. To me, anyway, but again, I'm just kinda, eh, whatever, if you say it's purple and I think in fact it does look pretty purplish I'm not going to demand color chips and documentation that in fact it is Aubergine. Call it purple and call it a day. I'll call it Aubergine in my head.

 

[Missy]

I agree, intolerance is way more than just having a differing opinion on something. It's being not respectful of others views/opinions/beliefs. Heck, we cannot all agree on everything but I get the strong feeling that some people (and I am sorry to have singled Kenny out but when he posted he put ieatbugs on ignore that really "bugged" me for some reason) cannot take it when others have constructive criticism and that is what I meant.


ETA: And I admit, I am intolerant of intolerance for sure!

 

[packrat]

See, and I saw it a completely different way..I was reading ieatbugs' responses all wide eyed and thinking damn dude-settle down, much the same as I was reading Kenny's responses to Skippy earlier in the thread. I don't get the immediate claws out rowr responses to things, not from Kenny earlier, and not from ieatbugs later. Again, to me, it's just not *that* big of a deal. So Skippy asked a question, so who cares, answer it respectfully and move on. So Kenny feels differently, who cares, give your opinion respectfully and move on. And the I'm putting you on ignore comment, that to me is no different than getting upset in the heat of the moment when for all intents and purposes it looked to me like he was being attacked for his opinion, he put his hand up and said I'm not speaking to you anymore. I've done that to my husband when I've felt attacked "Just..don't. Don't talk to me" That's how I took it. Not everyone took it that way b/c everyone sees/reads things differently.

ETA-intolerant of intolerance, that's what I was thinking when I thought of the "church" which automatically comes w/the roll eyes face.

 

[Missy]

LOL- agree re religion and intolerance!

Yes, I guess things get misinterpreted when on a forum vs face to face IRL. I always like to give the benefit of the doubt but for some reason it really rubbed me the wrong way. ieatbugs is new and Kenny (IMO) was rude just like he was rude to Skippy earlier but Skippy has lots of friends here who promptly put Kenny in his place. I am feeling regretful speaking about Kenny as if he isn't here so Kenny, I apologize for doing so and am moving on now. Chalking it all up to misinterpretation.

 

[FrekeChild]

It's the tone.

Here are some facts:
Kenny is a very open gay man.
He has said before that he does not particularly like children.
Kenny is a drama queen.
Kenny also has a tendency to post things with the intent to get a rise out of people.

So if Kenny has no particular personal interest in women's health issues, and no interest in children, why read the article in the first place? Maybe he wants to know more. Don't know, don't particularly care. It's always good to broaden your horizons.

So why did Kenny post this thread?

A PSA.

Because he is ignorant to women's health issues and found an article about something he should have no theoretical interest in, and decided to share it with a forum of educated women. Because he is ignorant of an entire section of this forum he's been visiting for years, that is entirely devoted to family, and there are a whole bunch of threads about breast feeding over there.

When Skippy questioned him posting it, he jumped all over her. Then when other people jumped to her defense, we were "sad" and "go bananas". Which is insulting. It is proclaiming a few things - women are over-emotional, cannot handle criticism and incapable of having a constructive discussion. Which is what I found offensive.

If DF had posted this thread, at least he has 3 reasons to read it in the first place- a wife and two daughters...

 

[Lady_Disdain]

It's the tone.

Here are some facts:
Kenny is a very open gay man.
He has said before that he does not particularly like children.
Kenny is a drama queen.
Kenny also has a tendency to post things with the intent to get a rise out of people.

So if Kenny has no particular personal interest in women's health issues, and no interest in children, why read the article in the first place? Maybe he wants to know more. Don't know, don't particularly care. It's always good to broaden your horizons.

So why did Kenny post this thread?

A PSA.

Because he is ignorant to women's health issues and found an article about something he should have no theoretical interest in, and decided to share it with a forum of educated women. Because he is ignorant of an entire section of this forum he's been visiting for years, that is entirely devoted to family, and there are a whole bunch of threads about breast feeding over there.

When Skippy questioned him posting it, he jumped all over her. Then when other people jumped to her defense, we were "sad" and "go bananas". Which is insulting. It is proclaiming a few things - women are over-emotional, cannot handle criticism and incapable of having a constructive discussion. Which is what I found offensive.

If DF had posted this thread, at least he has 3 reasons to read it in the first place- a wife and two daughters...

If Kenny posted with the intent to get a rise out of people, aren't we just giving him what he wants?

I think the main problem is how the thread skipped "Kenny, stop stirring the pot" straight to "Men want to oppress women, men have no place discussing women's issue and down with the patriarchy."

 

[VRBeauty]

What Kenny posted is an interesting observation/statistic and the conversation could have gone in any many different directions. For example, one could try to make the case that there's a correlation between the low BF states and their average household income (which is below average) or the fact that many of them are in the Bible belt.. but that would be opening a whole can of verboten worms, no?

And maybe that's the point - to start a conversation that skirts the edge of what's allowed. That does seem to be the point of many of Kenny's threads... enter with caution! On the other hand, why not post a reason to participate on a slow news day?

I do get annoyed that Kenny feels free to use the "people vary" card with impunity and then jump on others who use it in a way that he doesn't see fit. Hey Kenny! I know you sort of created it, but that doesn't mean it isn't open to interpretation or re-use. This is the internet, Dude! And we're here for entertainment as well as interesting discussion - if someone wants to lighten the mood with a "because people vary," well then... let them! Consider it a nod to the brilliance of your one size fits all observation! Besides, in these parts, starting a thread does not give you the right to dictate what people post in it, especially when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with you personally!

 

[Skippy123]

What Kenny posted is an interesting observation/statistic and the conversation could have gone in any many different directions. For example, one could try to make the case that there's a correlation between the low BF states and their average household income (which is below average) or the fact that many of them are in the Bible belt.. but that would be opening a whole can of verboten worms, no?

And maybe that's the point - to start a conversation that skirts the edge of what's allowed. That does seem to be the point of many of Kenny's threads... enter with caution! On the other hand, why not post a reason to participate on a slow news day?

I do get annoyed that Kenny feels free to use the "people vary" card with impunity and then jump on others who use it in a way that he doesn't see fit. Hey Kenny! I know you sort of created it, but that doesn't mean it isn't open to interpretation or re-use. This is the internet, Dude! And we're here for entertainment as well as interesting discussion - if someone wants to lighten the mood with a "because people vary," well then... let them! Consider it a nod to the brilliance of your one size fits all observation! Besides, in these parts, starting a thread does not give you the right to dictate what people post in it, especially when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with you personally!

I was wondering too if it his post wanted to touch on religion?? I don't know; I think if Kenny were a cheerleader or positive support in the FHH section of PS I couldn't give this thread a second thought, but it isn't the case so it doesn't feel like a thoughtful PSA.

oh and thanks Ksinger, Freke and others who say the OP should not dictate what I can say! I think in general I am positive, thoughtful and supportive PSer or at least I hope so.

 

[Maria D]

The fact is that people should be no more comfortable with this than they would a random stranger walking up to them in a public place and saying "Gee, I hope you aren't going to feed that (whatever food) to your kid." because it's the same kind of thing.

Wait...you're telling people what they should not be comfortable with? Presumptuous much? I find your attitude stunningly imperious.

I don't see any evidence in this thread of Kenny saying the "same kind of thing" as what you quote above. It makes me wonder if a man really did say that you couldn't see your own CAT scan because "big words would confuse your pretty head," or if that was just your perception of the conversation. I'm an ardent feminist and hope that people reading your words won't think that all feminists would agree with your point of view here.

 

[ieatbugs]

The fact is that people should be no more comfortable with this than they would a random stranger walking up to them in a public place and saying "Gee, I hope you aren't going to feed that (whatever food) to your kid." because it's the same kind of thing.

Wait...you're telling people what they should not be comfortable with? Presumptuous much? I find your attitude stunningly imperious.

I don't see any evidence in this thread of Kenny saying the "same kind of thing" as what you quote above. It makes me wonder if a man really did say that you couldn't see your own CAT scan because "big words would confuse your pretty head," or if that was just your perception of the conversation. I'm an ardent feminist and hope that people reading your words won't thing that all feminists would agree with your point of view here.

No, I meant that people have no obligation to feel any more comfortable with a breastfeeding "PSA" under the guise of 'education' than they would simply being instructed verbatim about what they should feed their child.

Go ahead and question my perception versus reality, that's pretty unwarranted and women calling other women crazy to discredit them is not really the kind of thing I would expect from someone who considers themselves feminist.

 

[Skippy123]

Packrat, if you started this thread or even the guy in FHH who is a Foster dad that loves kids started this thread then I think I would respond differently. I respond when I know someone really cares (especially personal threads like this). I think there are so many variables for why people can't bf etc. Heck I know for me my boys were born too dang early and just didn't get it because they were tube fed for too long. I did pump milk for them and I feel good about that but I don't want to come here and read a thread that is in the spirit to start a debate when someone has repeatedly said the don't like kids; that is upsetting to me. If you started this thread I probably would tell more of my story. That is why I told Kenny to get read the pumping thread or the PS Preggo or baby thread, then he might get insight into the US not having long enough leave, etc. I do appreciate the women moms and none moms (like Zoe and others) who did cheer my boys on and also that I could cheer others on for various topics of mommyhood. anyway, I am just rambling but I do feel like we are friends so I thought I would sit down and write something back, hth.

 

[Maria D]

Packrat, if you started this thread or even the guy in FHH who is a Foster dad that loves kids started this thread then I think I would respond differently. I respond when I know someone really cares (especially personal threads like this). I think there are so many variables for why people can't bf etc. Heck I know for me my boys were born too dang early and just didn't get it because they were tube fed for too long. I did pump milk for them and I feel good about that but I don't want to come here and read a thread that is in the spirit to start a debate when someone has repeatedly said the don't like kids; that is upsetting to me. If you started this thread I probably would tell more of my story. That is why I told Kenny to get read the pumping thread or the PS Preggo or baby thread, then he might get insight into the US not having long enough leave, etc. I do appreciate the women moms and none moms (like Zoe and others) who did cheer my boys on and also that I could cheer others on for various topics of mommyhood. anyway, I am just rambling but I do feel like we are friends so I thought I would sit down and write something back, hth.

Skippy, when I breastfed my own daughter in the 90's my issue with public attitudes about BFing was that no one was going to tell me that I *couldn't* breastfeed my baby whenever and wherever I wanted to. It sounds like you feel like the pendulum has swung the other way, that now people are saying that if you don't breastfeed you had better have a good excuse not to. To me, breastfeeding is not a deeply personal thing. You want to breastfeed, do it, and don't let anyone tell you you have to hide somewhere to do it -- if you can't or won't, that's perfectly fine too. (Well, only in the sense that it's the woman's decision; I do feel that public policy should change to make it easier for women to bf.) I wasn't breastfed and I am and always have been very healthy (knock on wood). I'm not saying it shouldn't be deeply personal to you, just that for some of us Kenny posting this thread pushes no buttons at all, even if we are pro-breastfeeding and pro-choosing how to feed our own kids.

I find you unfailingly polite on this forum. You are all sweetness and light, a good way to be! And I think that's why people got upset that Kenny asked (told?) you to stay on topic. If Kenny had said the same thing to me, it wouldn't have made a ripple. If we don't want to discuss his topic(s), we don't have to. Notice how I'm posting here twice now and not once contributing to the original question.