waterlilly
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2007
- Messages
- 955
dragonfly411|1296245394|2835919 said:waterlilly|1296244343|2835901 said:NewEnglandLady|1296242409|2835860 said:Waterlily, I'm not going to continue debating because I'm content to agree to disagree. I respect your opinions because I don't think you're ignorant...we just fall in different sides of the fence.
To be clear, however, conformation is not based on "looks". Breed standards are developed for the purpose of the dog. If a dog does not meet those standards, then the breeder isn't bettering the breed by keeping that dog in her lines. I'm the first to argue that I think health clearances are about 100x more important than whether a dog is 27" at the withers vs. 28", and I personally seek out working lines for my dogs because that is what I care about, but the basis of conformation has little to do with looks.
Actually, to be clear - conformation is based SOLELY on the external appearance of the dog. Conformation is an evaluation of breed standards...what about a breed standard has anything to do with a dogs ability to physically perform a function? Breed standards describe the outward appearance of a dog, period.
Here is a blurb regarding exactly what I was just talking about:
Criticism of dog showing
See also: Pedigree Dogs Exposed
The practice of breeding dogs for conformation showing has become a subject of intense debate. Some critics state that conformation shows lead to selecting of breeding dogs based solely upon appearance, which is seen by some as being detrimental to working qualities and at worst as promotion of eugenics.[11]
In the United States some working dog breed organizations, such as the American Border Collie Association and the Jack Russell Terrier Club of America, have put a considerable amount of effort in the fight to keep their breeds from being recognized by the AKC and some other kennel clubs,[12] as they fear that introduction of their breeds to the show ring will lead to decreasing numbers of working dogs with adequate qualities.
In August 2008, BBC1 televised a documentary film titled Pedigree Dogs Exposed, which investigated the subject of health issues affecting pedigree dogs in the United Kingdom, with a particular emphasis on dogs bred for showing. The programme provoked an unprecedented response from both the public and the dog-breeding community, with widespread criticism directed at the Kennel Club. Since the broadcast, the BBC has withdrawn its television coverage of Crufts dog show in 2009, with other sponsors and partners also withdrawing their support, including Pedigree Petfoods, the RSPCA, PDSA and the Dog's Trust. In response to the programme, the Kennel Club in the UK announced a review of all breed standards, with the long-term goal being to eradicate hereditary health concerns. Most notably, they will impose a ban on breeding between dogs that are closely related and will impose greater monitoring to prevent unhealthy dogs from being entered for and winning awards at dog shows.
Conformation determines an animal's ability to perform based on human judgment of qualities that enhance performance. A short dog with short legs and heavy body is not going to be able to jump as high as a taller dog with a more refined body. A bassett hound will never run as fast as a greyhound due to body structure, conformation. A thoroughbred race horse will not be able to trot like a saddle seat horse because it's built differently. A house cat will not be able to take down a full sized gazelle because it's conformation is not made for large animal hunting. What about that is solely about looks to you? Breed standards are developed based upon common characteristics of a breed that not only make them unique, but give them their abilities to do certain jobs.
And I was referencing your quotes about dogs not being able to be trained to have good manners around each other when in heat. An intact male animal can be trained to have good manners just like a 1200lb horse can as well. I'll stand by that. I've seen male dogs around females in heat that behaved perfectly fine for their owners. It is called training and discipline. I'm sorry YOU haven't seen it in YOUR experience, but you aren't working in ALL venues of dog breeding and ownership either now are you.
Waterlily - I feel like you have a lot of expertise IN YOUR AREA, but just like you say Deb cannot make general statements based on her area of experience, you cannot make general statements about the entire dog world based on JUST your experience. Until you've seen every dog there is in the nation (I'll edit this to say world since some of us are international), you cannot say that NO INTACT MALE DOG can be trained to behave around a female in heat while not on a leash. I understand you are passionate about the subject because you have to deal with the repercussions of irresponsible breeders, but you are also quick to note how wrong the rest of the world is when yourself may not be right.
What do you know about what "my area" is? I told you one aspect of my involvement with dogs.
Funny you should mention bassets, here is a link you might find interesting: http://www.virginmedia.com/homefamily/pets/10-scandalous-dog-breeds.php?ssid=1