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ChloeTheGreat

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for an unaltered male dog to *hump* a female dog as the owner just stands there?

I took my female dog to the dog park today and she (and I) got upset when two persistent male dogs kept humping her. The owner just stood there and said "oh, I need to get my dogs neutered..." My dog was clearly agitated and defensive and was no longer enjoying her dog park experience. (She even headed to the gate to leave.) I had to pull my dog away from the other dogs as the owner did nothing.

It's not ok for human males to hump every female in sight, why is it ok for dogs?!

So frustrating!
 
My #1 pet peive in life is OBLIVIOUS PET OWNERS. I hate them
 
Its not.
 
Wow that was really not ok. How rude and irresponsible of the owner.
 
I stopped taking mine. Owners of large dogs would let their large dogs run over and topple my little dogs. No thanks.
 
It isn't.

It's a matter of doggy manners. Your dog probably did all the polite ways to motion that she wasn't interested in being dominated. She probably sat down, tried to move away, a low grumble and snarl. If the other dog (regardless of sex) had any sense of doggy manners, it would have took the hint and backed down.

Furthermore, IMO an unaltered dog should never be allowed at a dog park.
 
It's not okay, but my 95 lb. lab will do it even though he's neutered-it's a dominance behavior. But the owner should intervene.
I find it humiliating, frankly.
 
It's not okay. It's like creepy dog perverts. The owners should have intervened for sure.
 
did you tell the owner of the other dog to get his dog under control?! are their neuter laws in your area? tell him if it continues to happen you're reporting him....and do so.

MoZo
 
davi_el_mejor|1296083518|2834056 said:
Furthermore, IMO an unaltered dog should never be allowed at a dog park.

That is prejudice. Some intact males are so well mannered that you would never know whether or not they were neutered. My

Newfoundlandland doesn't "hump" anybody.

Deb
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
AGBF|1296099810|2834303 said:
davi_el_mejor|1296083518|2834056 said:
Furthermore, IMO an unaltered dog should never be allowed at a dog park.

That is prejudice. Some intact males are so well mannered that you would never know whether or not they were neutered. My

Newfoundlandland doesn't "hump" anybody.

Deb
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

It was more about population control than a humping issue. I'm in the camp that if your dog isn't going to be a champion show dog or have working titles, it should be altered. All females should altered before 6 months, regardless of breed. Numerous studies have shown that for some breeds, the risks of early neuter in males outweigh the benefits. That's why I recommend people neuter their males between 18-24months old. Giant breed males should never be altered before 24 months.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now...
 
Oblivious pet owners at the dog park can be dangerous. We're regulars at our doggie park, and there is always someone who uses the phrase, "Oh well, they just need to work it out" whenever their dog acts aggressively or inappropriately toward another dog. From what I've seen, there can be a fine line between play and aggression. Things can escalate quickly, and the pack mentality takes over. I am one of those embarrassing moms who watches her "kids" like a hawk.

Humping is a show of dominance, and both males and females will try to get their hump on. Our Great Dane gets humped regularly by a female standard poodle (the tall poodles.) She likes to catch him by surprise when he is playing with other dogs. His WTF expression is priceless. It doesn't bother me, but that's probably because her owner is so embarrassed by her poodle's behavior and even puts her in "time out." Our Dane is a great big easy-going glunk, he will let her do her thing while he continued to play with the boys.
 
AGBF|1296099810|2834303 said:
davi_el_mejor|1296083518|2834056 said:
Furthermore, IMO an unaltered dog should never be allowed at a dog park.

That is prejudice. Some intact males are so well mannered that you would never know whether or not they were neutered. My

Newfoundlandland doesn't "hump" anybody.

Deb
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

It's not prejudice, it's to prevent doggie pregnancy. Although your dog may not generally be a humper, what if a foxy lady dog happens to be in heat and also in the park with your dog? You can't control his natural doggie instincts to jump on and make it happen. Granted, the moron doggie owner who brought her in-heat female dog to the park is also responsible...
 
davi_el_mejor|1296100259|2834307 said:
AGBF|1296099810|2834303 said:
davi_el_mejor|1296083518|2834056 said:
Furthermore, IMO an unaltered dog should never be allowed at a dog park.

That is prejudice. Some intact males are so well mannered that you would never know whether or not they were neutered. My

Newfoundlandland doesn't "hump" anybody.

Deb
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

It was more about population control than a humping issue. I'm in the camp that if your dog isn't going to be a champion show dog or have working titles, it should be altered. All females should altered before 6 months, regardless of breed. Numerous studies have shown that for some breeds, the risks of early neuter in males outweigh the benefits. That's why I recommend people neuter their males between 18-24months old. Giant breed males should never be altered before 24 months.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now...

My breeder and my dog's trainer ( a renowned bull mastiff expert) agree I should never neuter my 16 month old Newfoundland. He would be more prone to prostate and certain other cancers were he to be neutered. He would also be, "like a side of beef" given his already docile temperament. Only testicular cancer is reduced by neutering and Newfoundlands are not prone to testicular cancer. My breeder believes that only in the unlikely event that the dog gets testicular cancer should he have his testicles removed! And, as my breeder has pointed out, when one keeps a dog in an enclosed (fenced area) and he is walked on a leash unwanted breeding is not an issue. Our dogs do not roam.

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
megumic|1296100989|2834315 said:
It's not prejudice, it's to prevent doggie pregnancy. Although your dog may not generally be a humper, what if a foxy lady dog happens to be in heat and also in the park with your dog? You can't control his natural doggie instincts to jump on and make it happen. Granted, the moron doggie owner who brought her in-heat female dog to the park is also responsible...

megumic-Have you ever owned an unspayed female dog? One who went into heat? I have. In fact, I have lived in a house with two that went into season at the same time. Believe me, one couldn't take them to a dog park without starting rioting in the streets!!! We used to be unable to get our two spaniels from the front door of the house to the car safely!!!

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
Hi AGBF, our vet said the same thing about our big guy, the Dane. He told us that if there are no behavioral concerns, and because he's an indoor dog and not a wandering Don Juan, there is no reason to neuter. He said that if we did decide to neuter, we should wait 18 months, minimum as it is not good for his long-term health to neuter early.

In the end, we did decide to neuter, but only because the marking was getting out of hand. We have two small female dogs (mine before marriage) and he started obsessively tinkling over every spot after they did their business. I'm embarrassed to say that my girls are not the most disciplined about not pottying where they shouldn't, so this would take place on our hardwood floors. I was nervous that the marking might continue after he got neutered, but it completely and instantly ceased.

You can definitely tell when male Danes have been neutered too soon. The ones I've seen all seem to have much spindlier legs and just have an overall "daintier" look to them. I'm glad we waited to neuter, but I also wish we didn't do it at all. The pee mishaps just got to be too much for me to handle.
 
afreebird|1296102581|2834342 said:
Hi AGBF, our vet said the same thing about our big guy, the Dane. He told us that if there are no behavioral concerns, and because he's an indoor dog and not a wandering Don Juan, there is no reason to neuter. He said that if we did decide to neuter, we should wait 18 months, minimum as it is not good for his long-term health to neuter early.

In the end, we did decide to neuter, but only because the marking was getting out of hand. We have two small female dogs (mine before marriage) and he started obsessively tinkling over every spot after they did their business. I'm embarrassed to say that my girls are not the most disciplined about not pottying where they shouldn't, so this would take place on our hardwood floors. I was nervous that the marking might continue after he got neutered, but it completely and instantly ceased.

You can definitely tell when male Danes have been neutered too soon. The ones I've seen all seem to have much spindlier legs and just have an overall "daintier" look to them. I'm glad we waited to neuter, but I also wish we didn't do it at all. The pee mishaps just got to be too much for me to handle.

I completely understand. I am a mother!!! I cannot count the things I had to do because they were better than the alternative with a kid!!! It's nice to meet you!!

Deb
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
My dog is neutered and even when I go to the dog park or any park ,males will try to hump him (dominance issue).

I bought this Dog Dazer http://www.amazon.com/DAZER-II-Ultrasonic-Dog-Deterrent/dp/B000E7KVQ2 which is an ultrasonic device. It does not hurt the dog, but it sure makes them stop whatever they are doing. Unfortunately, my dog is also subjected to the sound (only dogs can hear) but it will deter any aggressive dog that tries to go after mine. I even carry it when I go for walks because it is quicker for me to push a button than pull out my pepper spray.

Dog parks do have rules and if any dog and/or owner does not "play" nicely, can get ousted from the park.
 
I have to say, it's refreshing that so many people are aware of the dangers of early neutering.

Having an in-tact male hump a female is NEVER okay. It's irresponsible.

When I was showing Bo, there were many times I had to take him out of the ring because a bitch who'd just come out of heat was in the ring. Once an in-tact male gets of whiff of those hormones, it's game over.

Both of our boys were eventually neutered, though in both cases their growth plates had already closed. I personally had no issues at all keeping them in tact, but our dog walker is the one who takes them to the park on weekdays while D and I are at work and I was nervous about having an in-tact dog around other dogs when I was not there personally.
 
I thought unaltered dogs are not allowed in dog parks? I hate oblivious people! My DH and I took both out dogs out yesterday and this guy let his dog poop in the entrance area and didn't pick it up. My DH was super annoyed and went and picked it up himself and let the guy know that owners have to pick up after their dogs. The guy shrugged and said he didn't know the park provided bags. :rolleyes: Lame excuse. Not to mention the rest of the time, he didn't look up at his dog as he was reading the paper.
 
People who do not alter their male dogs are not, necessarily, "oblivious" people. We are not automatically to be put into the same category as people who do not pick up after their pets; people who allow their pets to annoy other people's pets either by "humping" them or by terrorizing them in other ways; people who are, in general, irresponsible animal owners. Some of us are responsible animal owners who have made an informed decision not to neuter our male dogs based on the breed of the dog, the circumstances in which the dog is kept, and the health history of the breed. Neutering is not all that it has been cracked up to be, and in some instances it actually seems to make male dogs more, "hyper".

In the dog world the issue is becoming what male circumcision is in the pediatric world.

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
Deb - I think Tigian was referring to situational scenarios, since she posted her own as well.

Unfortunately humping is also a dominance thing, so it's not just intact males. Owners really do need to work to socialize their dogs properly if they're going to take them to a dog park.

Thankfully my grandparents' house is like it's own dog park as there are generally five dogs at the house at any given time, so my pups get plenty of play without the craziness at the dog parks.
 
I do have to say that I have gone on walks with my dog at our local park and other dogs have gone after him (some owners let their dogs off leash so they can play around in the creek) and I have pepper spray in hand to ward them off. I am not about to get my dog injured or worse, killed or get myself injured in the process because of negligent/stupid owners.
 
AGBF|1296153559|2834739 said:
People who do not alter their male dogs are not, necessarily, "oblivious" people. We are not automatically to be put into the same category as people who do not pick up after their pets; people who allow their pets to annoy other people's pets either by "humping" them or by terrorizing them in other ways; people who are, in general, irresponsible animal owners. Some of us are responsible animal owners who have made an informed decision not to neuter our male dogs based on the breed of the dog, the circumstances in which the dog is kept, and the health history of the breed. Neutering is not all that it has been cracked up to be, and in some instances it actually seems to make male dogs more, "hyper".

In the dog world the issue is becoming what male circumcision is in the pediatric world.

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Am I mistaken? Didn't you just get this dog like 2 weeks ago?

In what "dog world" are you living to say this: In the dog world the issue is becoming what male circumcision is in the pediatric world. ?????

What instances are you referring to when you say it makes male dogs more "hyper"? How many dogs have you owned/handled to make this statement that neutering is not all that is has been cracked up to be?

Waiting before neutering certain breeds is certainly the wise choice for developmental issues, but I have no idea why a breeder would ever allow someone to own a pet dog of theirs and not require the dog to be neutered if they know this dog's show career is over. Breeders work (GOOD breeders, that is) very hard to get the quality of dogs they have, the last thing they want is substandard pups being born as a result of one of their dogs breeding mistakenly.

You can't even get your dog out of your yard and you think you could handle him in a dog park if there was a bitch in heat? Unaltered male dogs in a group setting are a nuisance - period. I speak from actual experience, not because someone told me so. I've had probably no less than 50 un-neutered dogs in my care over the past 2 years, not a single one became more hyper after being neutered, I tell you what it did do - it stopped marking behavior and it stopped mounting and aggression.

I work in dog rescue here in New England saving giant breed big fluffy dogs (just like yours) and pick and choose what puppies and dogs get to live and die based on a pictures volunteers send me of their overcrowded kennels - pretty much daily. I get emails from people in the south begging me to help them with a litter of Pry or Newf puppies that were dumped at their shelter and have no time left. Neutering is not done NEARLY ENOUGH in this country because people are ignorant, the last thing the real dog world needs is people arguing against neutering because it's not necessary in the show dog bubble.

An unaltered dog should NEVER be brought to a dog park or ANY group setting and allowed off leash. Unaltered males can trigger aggression in other dogs VERY quickly in a group setting.
 
I'm running out the door, so no time for a long post, but wanted to link this article/study, which is an insightful study on the risks of neutering.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

I see several in-tact dogs at my dog park, many of them are regulars who have extremely well-mannered dogs as they have their obedience titles and some (not all) are show dogs. I'm also close with a lot of breeders in our regional breed club who are very open to owners of their dogs not neutering. The reason why they are so strict about screening potential owners is because they do want the most responsible owners for their dogs.

My only argument is that, for many owners, the decision to neuter is not an easy one. We all want to do what is BEST for our dogs, and there are many arguments as to why neutering is less healthy than having an in-tact dog. The downside is that you have to be extraordinarily vigilant about obedience and be willing to go the extra mile. As I said, I chose to neuter because I could not be with my dogs at the park 100% of the time.

That being said, I'm running out the door to go visit Byron, who has been in ICU for 7 days now and will stay there for several more days. The reason he's in ICU is because he has a fatal auto-immune disease. One of the reasons he may have developed this is due to hypothyroidism. And one of the risks of neutering? You've got it, hypothyroidism. If I knew that the reason my dog will likely only live a few more months is because I neutered him, I will never forgive myself.

(P.S. I was talking with our neurologist last night, who is at the Angell clinic, about adopting a dog. I noticed that about 90% of the dogs in the shelter were Pit Bull mixes--he said that every other breed gets adopted so fast, there isn't enough supply to satisfy demand. I realize this isn't the case everywhere--this is in the middle of Boston--but I was completely shocked.)
 
NewEnglandLady|1296166507|2835018 said:
(P.S. I was talking with our neurologist last night, who is at the Angell clinic, about adopting a dog. I noticed that about 90% of the dogs in the shelter were Pit Bull mixes--he said that every other breed gets adopted so fast, there isn't enough supply to satisfy demand. I realize this isn't the case everywhere--this is in the middle of Boston--but I was completely shocked.)

Here in New England, the euthanisia rate is significantly lower than anywhere else in the country, what he said was exactly right. The non-pit breeds are adopted quickly. Rescues and shelters are different things. Rescues work to help dogs across the country - the only reason rescues in New England can survive is because people up here adopt dogs - dogs that you don't typically see in shelters here, but are overflowing in shelters elsewhere. We pull dogs from high kill shelters and bring them here where they can get adopted.

You name any breed, age, size, color etc of dog, I can find one slotted for euthansia down south and have it at your doorstep in about 2 weeks. It is a tiny number of shelter dogs that actually get a chance to have their picture put on petfinder, most shelters have no time or money for that. The shelters I work with have less than 2 days to find dogs homes before euth'ing them.


Also - I've read that link you posted. I'm a scientist and have worked in medical research for several years - a paper written by a MS, backed by a single PhD who sits on the board of NAIA, is worth nothing to me.

NAIA via wiki:
Empowering puppy mill operators
The AKC sponsors a seminar called "Legislative Empowerment" that teaches breeders, owners and others involved in commerce involving dogs how to oppose legislation and regulations. According to the AKC:
"Specifically, in 2007, the Canine Legislation department: Tracked nearly 400 state bills relating to canine ownership." [9]
The AKC also lobbies through the National Animal Interest Alliance (NAIA), a lobbying organization for animal commerce and agriculture based in Portland, Oregon. NAIA director Patti Strand, is a Dalmatian breeder and member of the AKC board since 1995. [10]
AKC, NAIA & state breeders associations
There are about 20 state pet breeders associations who are (not too surprisingly) located in the major puppy mill states. The most active and vocal ones are in Missouri, Pennsylvania and Ohio, home to the heaviest concentration of puppy mills or what the AKC refers to as "high volume breeders". Almost all pet breeder associations link to the NAIA and AKC websites. The mouthpieces for the Pennsylvania and New York Pet Breeders Associations are Amish and Mennonite puppy millers, whose U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspection reports list repeated violations. [11] See also PA puppy mills.
 
waterlilly|1296163041|2834925 said:
AGBF|1296153559|2834739 said:
People who do not alter their male dogs are not, necessarily, "oblivious" people. We are not automatically to be put into the same category as people who do not pick up after their pets; people who allow their pets to annoy other people's pets either by "humping" them or by terrorizing them in other ways; people who are, in general, irresponsible animal owners. Some of us are responsible animal owners who have made an informed decision not to neuter our male dogs based on the breed of the dog, the circumstances in which the dog is kept, and the health history of the breed. Neutering is not all that it has been cracked up to be, and in some instances it actually seems to make male dogs more, "hyper".

In the dog world the issue is becoming what male circumcision is in the pediatric world.

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Am I mistaken? Didn't you just get this dog like 2 weeks ago?

In what "dog world" are you living to say this: In the dog world the issue is becoming what male circumcision is in the pediatric world. ?????

What instances are you referring to when you say it makes male dogs more "hyper"? How many dogs have you owned/handled to make this statement that neutering is not all that is has been cracked up to be?

Waiting before neutering certain breeds is certainly the wise choice for developmental issues, but I have no idea why a breeder would ever allow someone to own a pet dog of theirs and not require the dog to be neutered if they know this dog's show career is over. Breeders work (GOOD breeders, that is) very hard to get the quality of dogs they have, the last thing they want is substandard pups being born as a result of one of their dogs breeding mistakenly.

You can't even get your dog out of your yard and you think you could handle him in a dog park if there was a bitch in heat? Unaltered male dogs in a group setting are a nuisance - period. I speak from actual experience, not because someone told me so. I've had probably no less than 50 un-neutered dogs in my care over the past 2 years, not a single one became more hyper after being neutered, I tell you what it did do - it stopped marking behavior and it stopped mounting and aggression.

I work in dog rescue here in New England saving giant breed big fluffy dogs (just like yours) and pick and choose what puppies and dogs get to live and die based on a pictures volunteers send me of their overcrowded kennels - pretty much daily. I get emails from people in the south begging me to help them with a litter of Pry or Newf puppies that were dumped at their shelter and have no time left. Neutering is not done NEARLY ENOUGH in this country because people are ignorant, the last thing the real dog world needs is people arguing against neutering because it's not necessary in the show dog bubble.

An unaltered dog should NEVER be brought to a dog park or ANY group setting and allowed off leash. Unaltered males can trigger aggression in other dogs VERY quickly in a group setting.


Waterlily - I understand that you have some expertise in the area of dogs, but Deb could very well have a LONG history in the dog world and we don't even know it, regardless of whether she only just got the new boy. Take a step back and relax here. Also, male dogs CAN be taught proper manners, even around females in heat. If a 1200 lb horse can perform around mares in heat, I think a 100lb dog can be managed. :nono:
 
waterlilly|1296163041|2834925 said:
Am I mistaken? Didn't you just get this dog like 2 weeks ago?

Yes, but that is not when I got my brain.

In what "dog world" are you living to say this: In the dog world the issue is becoming what male circumcision is in the pediatric world. ?????

What instances are you referring to when you say it makes male dogs more "hyper"? How many dogs have you owned/handled to make this statement that neutering is not all that is has been cracked up to be?

Waiting before neutering certain breeds is certainly the wise choice for developmental issues, but I have no idea why a breeder would ever allow someone to own a pet dog of theirs and not require the dog to be neutered if they know this dog's show career is over. Breeders work (GOOD breeders, that is) very hard to get the quality of dogs they have, the last thing they want is substandard pups being born as a result of one of their dogs breeding mistakenly.

You can't even get your dog out of your yard and you think you could handle him in a dog park if there was a bitch in heat? Unaltered male dogs in a group setting are a nuisance - period. I speak from actual experience, not because someone told me so. I've had probably no less than 50 un-neutered dogs in my care over the past 2 years, not a single one became more hyper after being neutered, I tell you what it did do - it stopped marking behavior and it stopped mounting and aggression.

I work in dog rescue here in New England saving giant breed big fluffy dogs (just like yours) and pick and choose what puppies and dogs get to live and die based on a pictures volunteers send me of their overcrowded kennels - pretty much daily. I get emails from people in the south begging me to help them with a litter of Pry or Newf puppies that were dumped at their shelter and have no time left. Neutering is not done NEARLY ENOUGH in this country because people are ignorant, the last thing the real dog world needs is people arguing against neutering because it's not necessary in the show dog bubble.

An unaltered dog should NEVER be brought to a dog park or ANY group setting and allowed off leash. Unaltered males can trigger aggression in other dogs VERY quickly in a group setting.

It must be nice to know everything.

AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
dragonfly411|1296167813|2835053 said:
waterlilly|1296163041|2834925 said:
AGBF|1296153559|2834739 said:
Waterlily - I understand that you have some expertise in the area of dogs, but Deb could very well have a LONG history in the dog world and we don't even know it, regardless of whether she only just got the new boy. Take a step back and relax here. Also, male dogs CAN be taught proper manners, even around females in heat. If a 1200 lb horse can perform around mares in heat, I think a 100lb dog can be managed. :nono:


Based on what she said about her prior dog experience in the threads leading up to getting her latest, no.

And no, in my experience, no - an unaltered male dog can not be taught proper manners around a female in heat. If you put a bit in their mouth perhaps, but loose in a dog park, no, never.
 
waterlilly|1296169087|2835080 said:
dragonfly411|1296167813|2835053 said:
waterlilly|1296163041|2834925 said:
AGBF|1296153559|2834739 said:
Waterlily - I understand that you have some expertise in the area of dogs, but Deb could very well have a LONG history in the dog world and we don't even know it, regardless of whether she only just got the new boy. Take a step back and relax here. Also, male dogs CAN be taught proper manners, even around females in heat. If a 1200 lb horse can perform around mares in heat, I think a 100lb dog can be managed. :nono:


Based on what she said about her prior dog experience in the threads leading up to getting her latest, no.

And no, in my experience, no - an unaltered male dog can not be taught proper manners around a female in heat. If you put a bit in their mouth perhaps, but loose in a dog park, no, never.

My history, which you discount:

1) Two female spaniels that went into heat we had when I was a child.

2) A male Irish setter puppy from a store (i.e. from a puppy mill, but as a college kid I didn't know that) that got distemper that I had in college, nursed back to health, and then gave to a good, responsible home.

3) A female Golden Retriever that my husband and I got at six weeks and had spayed and who had a happy, uneventful life. She knew our daughter as an infant and died of natural causes (cancer) at age 12.

4) A huge, oversized, yellow Labrador Retriever that we adopted through Adopt-A-Dog when he was two and our daughter was five and in kindergarten. He was already neutered. He had been neutered too early and never learned to urinate by lifting his leg. He was very good with children, but growled at, and actually bit (albeit never to draw blood) anyone who came to the front door. Until we let the person in. Once the person came inside, everything was fine. It was only the front porch that was dangerous. But if you have a 110-lb dog lunging at you, barking, it is counter-intuitive to want come inside and shut the the door. We hired a trainer who came to the house at what was then a huge fee of $85.00 an hour to work with him. Ultimately I kept him on a leash and held a bottle of tabasco sauce in my hand when I answered the door. He was very scared of the tabsaco sauce, so it was an effective deterrent. This worked better than locking him in the bathroom, which I had tried. Eventually, at age 11, he was euthanized, not for bad behavior, but because his arthritis had become so painful. By then he was confined to his bed and I was bringing him his meals and helping him to the back yard to urinate and defecate. He was no longer terrorizing anyone. When my teenage daughter attempted suicide the first time, I was afraid he might try to bite the emergency medical technicians on the front porch as they entered if I stayed in her bedroom with her, but the dispatcher told me, "Don't worry about the dog! Make sure your daughter is breathing!" Of course the dog couldn't get off his bed, but old habits die hard. I knew my job was to be at the door with the tabasco sauce!!!

4) A small, perky young male, black cocker spaniel from a cocker spaniel rescue group that my daughter absolutely had to have then absolutely couldn't live with. He was neutered. I adored him. Now that was a hyper dog!!! When my daughter decided that she couldn't live with a small dog, we found him what we hoped would be a good home. Tragically, it was a loving home, but an unsafe home, a home in which he was hit by a car. Not by the owner's car, by a car in a street near their house. I had just visited him. I had continued to take responsibility for him, following up on him and volunteering to pay for his vet bills since I knew that this family did not have a lot of money. They truly loved him, though. All members of the family loved and doted on him, as did their neighbors. I saw that when I visited.

So there it is. I don't have an unblemished record. I had a Lab who was a terror and I never made him perfect. I gave away a cocker spaniel and he was hit by a car. So now do I have a right to have opinions on whether male Newfoundlands should be altered or don't I?

PS-I have to take my daughter out, so unlike on most days, typos and grammatical errors will have to stay in my posting. My apologies.

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
 
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