Why aren''t all diamonds ideal cut??

[jchau]

Correct me if I am wrong (I am a noob at this), but isn''t a diamond''s cut the only variable that''s controlled by us? Color, clarity and caret are determined by nature and thus affects the value of a diamond greatly. So why the new trend with how important a cut is? It seems like a diamond''s value/price is now more affected by cut than the other 3 C''s. So why don''t we cut all the raw diamonds into ideal cuts? Also, is it possible that an ideal cut diamond today will be worth less in the future because we discovered an even better way to cut diamonds?

 

[Sparkalicious]

Jchau,

I''m not positive, however, my assumptions lead me to believe that most diamonds are not "ideal" cut b/c it is more profitable to cut for carat size. I would hazard a guess and say that many people do not take ownership of their diamond purchases by educating themselves about the best diamonds available for purchase. Instead, they may go to the mall, for example, and purchase for carat size b/c this is generally what is equated with the "value" of a diamond. They may take color and clarity into minor consideration but just "trust" that what the sales associate is telling them is accurate or assume that because the diamond is being sold in a store, it is well cut.

A vendor can charge a premium for a diamond that achieves a carat weight of 1.00 carat or 2.00 carats, for example. For this reason, it seems likely more profitable for those involved to keep some of the diamond weight by compromising the cut and ensuring that the diamond reaches those "magic" or "premium" carat weight numbers or even just retains some extra carat weight b/c similarly, more can be charged.

Just a thought ... I''m sure that some of the experts around here will be able to chime in with further insight.

 

[isis~goddess]

i second what sparkalicious says, and will add, maybe it just takes skill that not all people have? also, maybe it depends on the condition and type of rough?

 

[strmrdr]

magic numbers and price jumps.
A badly cut 2ct sells for a lot more than a well cut 1.9ct cut from the same rough.

If they can reach the next magic number cutting it badly then they usually will.
The numbers:
.25
.33
.5
.70
.... with fancies there is often a large jump at .85
1.0
.... With fancies there is often a large jump at 1.25
1.5
2.0
and every .25 after that with 3,4,5,6,7 and so on.... bringing a huge jump over the .25 jumps.

 

[honey22]

I am sure it''s cause they can ship them off to maul stores and sell them at an incredible mark-up to unsuspecting buyers!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/7/2008 11:18:27 PM
Author: strmrdr
magic numbers and price jumps.
A badly cut 2ct sells for a lot more than a well cut 1.9ct cut from the same rough.

If they can reach the next magic number cutting it badly then they usually will.
The numbers:
.25
.33
.5
.70
.... with fancies there is often a large jump at .85
1.0
.... With fancies there is often a large jump at 1.25
1.5
2.0
and every .25 after that with 3,4,5,6,7 and so on.... bringing a huge jump over the .25 jumps.

Check out the chart on the right side of this page - click to enlarge it
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/carat.asp

 

[strmrdr]

Here is the chart for the lazy...

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes, cut is the only attribute that is controlled by man, but it can affect a great deal. Clarity can be improved by ‘cutting out’ certain things and even color can be modified, or at least mitigated, by the selection of shape. The mine produces whatever God put there and the miner will sell it for as much as they can get based on what they think the potential down the line is. It’s a rock, and like all rocks it is going to have it’s foibles, which is where the skill of the sorter comes in. Better cuts sell for a premium to consumers and rough that is conducive to producing better cuts sells for a premium to cutters. Bigger stones sell for a premium. Higher clarities sell for a different premium. Rarely can they get them all together. The job of a cutter is to start with the rough as God made it and to produce a stone that balances these things in a way that maximizes money. Sometimes that’s maximizing brilliance, sometimes that’s maximizing weight but usually it’s a balancing act between the two. The ONLY thing a cutter can do is to remove material and make the stone smaller. Some things remove a lot, some remove only a little bit but it’s all a matter of subtraction. This is material that they paid good money for and, not surprisingly, they are reticent to do this unless they gain something for it and what they’re usually hoping to gain is a higher price. It’s a one-way street. That is to say that they can’t say they wish it was a bit bigger in diameter or had a steeper crown because they can’t add anything back.

With modern cut stones it was almost always cut the way it was deliberately. Very little happens by accident. The cutter knew what they were doing and they CHOSE to do it the way they did. You may not agree with that decision, which is a reason not to buy a particular stone, but it’s almost always a mistake to look at a poorly cut stone at a bargain and think “I can fix that and save a bundle”. This is the exact same thought process the cutter went through before they made the decision to cut it the way they did. Errors happen and markets change and there is money or progress to be made by rethinking what has been done before but this process is nowhere near as easy as it seems. That first guy may not have been as dumb as it seems at first glance.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 4/7/2008 9:33:11 PM
Author:jchau
Also, is it possible that an ideal cut diamond today will be worth less in the future because we discovered an even better way to cut diamonds?

This is an interesting question.

What makes a diamond valuable? That’s easy. People like to buy them. Currently 57 facet round ‘ideal’ cuts with hearts and arrows symmetry and AGS optimized princess cuts are popular and command a premium over other similar stones and over, say, marquise’s but this is not something that’s ordained and it hasn’t always been this way. It’s a function of a market dynamics. This has not always been the case and it surely will change again in the future. Predicting such a change is an exercise akin to predicting where hemlines will be in 20 years. Ask a soothsayer, not an appraiser. Stones that were sold as ‘ideal’ 20 years ago suddenly aren’t ideal anymore because the rules have changed. The stone are the same. They’re still lovely, and they are still valuable, but the premium for their idealness has vanished to be replaced by a new and improved variety. This is the nature of the commercial bias towards new things. The hottest thing now will, almost by definition, not be the hottest thing in a few decades. Your grandkids are going to look smugly at your diamond for some reason or other because that’s what grandkids do. Not to worry, your stone will still rock, it’ll still light up the room and you can respond to the kids with stories about how great everything was back in the day. The difference will be that it will stand for a love affair that has lasted for decades. Now THAT’S value.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/8/2008 8:58:08 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/7/2008 9:33:11 PM
Author:jchau
Also, is it possible that an ideal cut diamond today will be worth less in the future because we discovered an even better way to cut diamonds?

This is an interesting question.

What makes a diamond valuable? That’s easy. People like to buy them. Currently 57 facet round ‘ideal’ cuts with hearts and arrows symmetry and AGS optimized princess cuts are popular and command a premium over other similar stones and over, say, marquise’s but this is not something that’s ordained and it hasn’t always been this way. It’s a function of a market dynamics. This has not always been the case and it surely will change again in the future. Predicting such a change is an exercise akin to predicting where hemlines will be in 20 years. Ask a soothsayer, not an appraiser. Stones that were sold as ‘ideal’ 20 years ago suddenly aren’t ideal anymore because the rules have changed. The stone are the same. They’re still lovely, and they are still valuable, but the premium for their idealness has vanished to be replaced by a new and improved variety. This is the nature of the commercial bias towards new things. The hottest thing now will, almost by definition, not be the hottest thing in a few decades. Your grandkids are going to look smugly at your diamond for some reason or other because that’s what grandkids do. Not to worry, your stone will still rock, it’ll still light up the room and you can respond to the kids with stories about how great everything was back in the day. The difference will be that it will stand for a love affair that has lasted for decades. Now THAT’S value.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I strongly feel the change to cft and maybe led sheet/array (used today for backlights for tvs and monitors) lighting indoors is going too be the driver too that change.
The change in lighting from candles and lamps to electric lights is what drove the RB to evolve into what it is today and made the princess cut possible too sell.
It is no accident that diamond cuts went from large chunky virtual facets to small virtual facets.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/8/2008 10:47:39 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/8/2008 8:58:08 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 4/7/2008 9:33:11 PM
Author:jchau
Also, is it possible that an ideal cut diamond today will be worth less in the future because we discovered an even better way to cut diamonds?

This is an interesting question.

What makes a diamond valuable? That’s easy. People like to buy them. Currently 57 facet round ‘ideal’ cuts with hearts and arrows symmetry and AGS optimized princess cuts are popular and command a premium over other similar stones and over, say, marquise’s but this is not something that’s ordained and it hasn’t always been this way. It’s a function of a market dynamics. This has not always been the case and it surely will change again in the future. Predicting such a change is an exercise akin to predicting where hemlines will be in 20 years. Ask a soothsayer, not an appraiser. Stones that were sold as ‘ideal’ 20 years ago suddenly aren’t ideal anymore because the rules have changed. The stone are the same. They’re still lovely, and they are still valuable, but the premium for their idealness has vanished to be replaced by a new and improved variety. This is the nature of the commercial bias towards new things. The hottest thing now will, almost by definition, not be the hottest thing in a few decades. Your grandkids are going to look smugly at your diamond for some reason or other because that’s what grandkids do. Not to worry, your stone will still rock, it’ll still light up the room and you can respond to the kids with stories about how great everything was back in the day. The difference will be that it will stand for a love affair that has lasted for decades. Now THAT’S value.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I strongly feel the change to cft and maybe led sheet/array (used today for backlights for tvs and monitors) lighting indoors is going too be the driver too that change.
The change in lighting from candles and lamps to electric lights is what drove the RB to evolve into what it is today and made the princess cut possible too sell.
It is no accident that diamond cuts went from large chunky virtual facets to small virtual facets.

That is a really interesting observation Storm! Thanks!

DD

 

[ringster]

Date: 4/7/2008 9:33:11 PM
Author:jchau
Also, is it possible that an ideal cut diamond today will be worth less in the future because we discovered an even better way to cut diamonds?

definitely possible but there are lots of factors that need to be considered. for example, if you look at the old mine, old european cuts - no one cuts in this manner anymore and there aren''t many available in high color ranges especially in the higher carat sizes because they were all recut to the modern cut. so these diamonds are valued higher.

plus fads come and go. i think the older cuts are a bit more in fashion lately so the demand increases the price esp when with the limited supply. but there are tons of older cuts that are much much cheaper than their equivalent in the modern cut - you just will find that they are generally lower color than people are interested in buying.

 

[tberube]

Date: 4/7/2008 9:33:11 PM
Author:jchau
Correct me if I am wrong (I am a noob at this), but isn''t a diamond''s cut the only variable that''s controlled by us? Color, clarity and caret are determined by nature and thus affects the value of a diamond greatly. So why the new trend with how important a cut is? It seems like a diamond''s value/price is now more affected by cut than the other 3 C''s. So why don''t we cut all the raw diamonds into ideal cuts? Also, is it possible that an ideal cut diamond today will be worth less in the future because we discovered an even better way to cut diamonds?

because, m''dear...there''s a sucker born every day, right?

 

[tberube]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:39:20 AM
Author: strmrdr
Here is the chart for the lazy...

According to this chart, there''s a pretty good jump at .90 ct too...am I reading it right?